Getting ready to make soil mix, any thoughts?

[David762]

Two things -- hardwood charcoal, such as "Cowboy" brand from Home Depot, and coarse perlite. Use a hammer to break the Cowboy charcoal up into pieces 1/2" or so -- save the dust to mix in the soil as well. For your 8 1.5 cubic feet of soil, I would use at least 2 bags of the hardwood charcoal, mixed 2:1 with the coarse perlite.

 

[Han Grolo]

I was looking for an organic in a bag solution myself. Was looking at doing a moonshine mix but being scared of FF and Roots soils for pest reasons I used:

1 20 quart bag Age Old Organic Grow
1 20 liter bag Bio Bizz All Mix
6 quarts coco
12 liters large perlite

Just transplanted some sickly AK from a failing hydro system into the mix a month ago. Vegged for two and budding for a little over two weeks now, only watered with water so far.

Its my first time trying this blend.. keeping a grow log here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=195374&page=2

We'll see how it goes. Peace- Han

 

[FreedomFarmer]

Coot,

Thanks for always being such a great resource and sharing so freely! Definitely going to go to Concentrates for my next mix, they seem to have everything i will need besides Neem meal and organic rice hulls. And, um, WOW on those prices, i knew that the grow shops mark all that stuff up signifigantly, but i didn't realize it was THIS much! For example: I paid about $13 for 5 #'s of fish bone meal, here for $28 i can get 50#! You should be getting a cut from concentrates for redirecting the growshop crowd to them.....



Do you have a good local source for rice hulls and neem meal?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Coot,

Thanks for always being such a great resource and sharing so freely! Definitely going to go to Concentrates for my next mix, they seem to have everything i will need besides Neem meal and organic rice hulls. And, um, WOW on those prices, i knew that the grow shops mark all that stuff up signifigantly, but i didn't realize it was THIS much! For example: I paid about $13 for 5 #'s of fish bone meal, here for $28 i can get 50#! You should be getting a cut from concentrates for redirecting the growshop crowd to them.....



Do you have a good local source for rice hulls and neem meal?

FF

Concentrates carries organic rice hulls - I think it's on the last page under 'Litter & Bedding' or something similar term - 50 lbs. for $14.00 and 50 lbs. is about 6 c.f.

If the bag tears, and it will, expect a real mess. I store it in plastic trash cans from HomeDepot. Did I mention that it was a real mess when spilled?

RE: Neem Oil and Neem Seed Meal

For the finest in both neem and karanja oils and seed meals - certified organic by real certification agencies - NeemResource.com

Look at their Sample Pack #3 as it's the best value that they offer. This product line is without peer - it's not even close.

HTH

CC

 

[Clackamas Coot]

FF

I'm probably not going out a limb much but I'll bet that the fish bone meal in the 5# box was from Down-To-Earth.

Here's a better example of this douche-bag industry. Down-To-Earth sells a 5 or 6 lb. box of oyster shell powder. Oyster shell powder from Pacific Pearl out of Petaluma, California. This is the same product that Concentrates sells in 50 lb. bags.

The grow store price (MSRP) for the Down-To-Earth Oyster Shell Powder is $9.95 for 6 lbs. though it might be only 5 lbs.

The price at Concentrates (or any other farm store around - chicken growers use this stuff by the ton) is - sit tight - $8.80 for 50 lbs.

I think I need a hankie.

CC

 

[EclipseFour20]

I too make mix my own soil (Promix BX)--but I am curious as to why Epsom Salts is part of your dry mix. Since it quite soluble--whereas most everything else will take months to breakdown (which is not a bad thing). I include Epsom Salts as part of my nute regime (5 ml/gallon)...everytime.

Why "bloom bat guano"? I would think high Nitrogen (like Mexican--I mix 4 cups to 15 gallons of soil mix or 1.6%) would be best--save the bloom bat guano for flower time. I do both a tea and top dressing for the bloom guano (tea only for Peruvian Seabird guano).

BTW...it took me a couple of adjustments before I dialed in my Dolomite Lime to maintain levels of ph and Calcium. For comparisons...I use 2 cups for a 15 gallon batch of soil mix (or 0.8%) and lots of pumice--like 33%; love that stuff--it does not migrate to the soil surface when watering/flushing.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Bullfrog44

These are sold as rotating compost tumblers and they hold 90 gallons (>12 c.f.) and are priced between $110.00 - $125.00 and probably a lot higher if you feel chartable.

Loading it up with 12 c.f. might not be practical however - maybe 3 or 4 c.f. batches would work out better better.

CC

 

[Bullfrog44]

Great info people. I am loving this thread more and more everyday.

Got another question......What is better, rice hulls or pumice?

 

[FreedomFarmer]

FF

I'm probably not going out a limb much but I'll bet that the fish bone meal in the 5# box was from Down-To-Earth.

Here's a better example of this douche-bag industry. Down-To-Earth sells a 5 or 6 lb. box of oyster shell powder. Oyster shell powder from Pacific Pearl out of Petaluma, California. This is the same product that Concentrates sells in 50 lb. bags.

The grow store price (MSRP) for the Down-To-Earth Oyster Shell Powder is $9.95 for 6 lbs. though it might be only 5 lbs.

The price at Concentrates (or any other farm store around - chicken growers use this stuff by the ton) is - sit tight - $8.80 for 50 lbs.

I think I need a hankie.

CC

Yeah, pass one of those hankies over here! Twas indeed the down to earth fish bone meal, outrageous!

Just thought of a question for you Coot(or anyone for that matter....): how available is the sillica in rice hulls in a shorter term container grow? My only experience using rice hulls is in building soil in large outdoor beds in the tropics, where we used it to loosen up the clay soil and add a bit of organic matter.


Eclipse420: Now you have me thinking about those empsoms in the soil mix..... my logic goes like this: since they are water soluble, they will be flushed out of the soil in not too long of a time, leaving the plants hunting for Mg. This mix has dolomite lime, so some Mg is in there, but pretty much all my plants in this mix(regardless of strain) are starting to show some degree of Mg deficiency here in bloom. Anyone want to weigh in on this? Is it even worth putting epsoms into a soil mix?

 

[FreedomFarmer]

@Eclipse420:

On the subject of the high P guano in this mix, it seems to work out just fine, the plants go for all that P when they need it in the soil, that's the idea behind a mix like this. Make a nice buffet for the plants in the soil, and let them figure out when and how much of what to uptake. On my last run I was totally fine with just the P in the soil, no need to supplement.....

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Yeah, pass one of those hankies over here! Twas indeed the down to earth fish bone meal, outrageous!

Just thought of a question for you Coot(or anyone for that matter....): how available is the sillica in rice hulls in a shorter term container grow? My only experience using rice hulls is in building soil in large outdoor beds in the tropics, where we used it to loosen up the clay soil and add a bit of organic matter.


Eclipse420: Now you have me thinking about those empsoms in the soil mix..... my logic goes like this: since they are water soluble, they will be flushed out of the soil in not too long of a time, leaving the plants hunting for Mg. This mix has dolomite lime, so some Mg is in there, but pretty much all my plants in this mix(regardless of strain) are starting to show some degree of Mg deficiency here in bloom. Anyone want to weigh in on this? Is it even worth putting epsoms into a soil mix?

It takes about 6 months for the soil micorbes to breakdown the rice hulls completely which I'm assuming is about when all of the compounds contained would be completely free - then again I could be wrong on that.

Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) is fine and certainly used. However you went with langbeinite you would have Magnesium (in a soluble form), Sulphur (Sulphur Oxide) and Potassium.

I would tell you the brand names out there but it's come to my attention that in doing so it appears that I'm trying to promote proprietary products so you'll have to figure out how to buy langbeinite for $.40 per lb. - even in its organic form.

BTW - Epsom Salts (again Magnesium & Sulphur) costs $24.00 for 50 lbs. and langbeinite costs $18.00 for 50 lbs. IOW, 33% more and you'll still have to look for a Potassium. It's probably best to check with real growers in 'Cali' as it's come to my attention that they have a sh*t load of Potassium unknown (so far anyway) to hicks in Orygun.

HTH

CC

 

[EclipseFour20]

FreedomFarmer--you are right about providing a buffet for the plants and let the roots uptake what they want.

On Epsom Salts--yeah, I recently saw yours and a couple of others that included magnesium sulfate in their soil recipe and it got me thinking--maybe I don't know something. Since the breakdown is practically instant...just could not see the benefits of adding Epsom Salts directly to the soil. Other ways to pickup magnesium and sulfur.

Kinda like seaweed extract vs kelp meal--I saw a soil recipe that included liquid seaweed extract and zero kelp meal--but included greensand. Go figure.

 

[Bullfrog44]

8 bags of roots organic soil (12 cubic feet)

1 cubic foot of earth worm castings
5 lbs steamed bone meal
5 lbs bloom guano
5 lbs blood meal
3 lbs rock phosphate
3/4 cup epsom salts (+ 1/2 cup?)
1/2 cup azomite
2 tbsp Humic Acid
Alfalfa Meal - 3/4 cup per cubic foot or 9 cups per 12 cubic ft.
Kelp Meal - 1/2 or 3/4 per cubic foot or 6-9 cups per 12 cubic ft.
1-1.5 cubic feet of Pumice per 12 cubic feet of soil.


I think this is the mix guys. Does anybody else have anything to add? I am thinking of buying and mixing this weekend. Any last thoughts throw them in now please.

 

[Bullfrog44]

Unless I can find bags of Harvest Moon. If I can find Harvest Moon, then I will just do a strait sub, Roots for Harvest.

 

[Corpsey]

and they hold 90 gallons (>12 c.f.)

hey coot, i have been going back and forth on this. do we measure our soil mixes as DRY gallons(6.43G=1CF) or LIQUID gallons(7.48G=1CF)?

i have been using this website for math conversions instead of google, because i realized google was giving me LIQUID gallon conversions only.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volume-units-converter-d_1034.html

im about to throw a mix together this week, and now i have to ponder them numbers.

 

[Bullfrog44]

Good question.

CC - I bought the compost tiller that you recommended. I hope it works for my soil and all my compost this year. Now I have to buy a compost book.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

hey coot, i have been going back and forth on this. do we measure our soil mixes as DRY gallons(6.43G=1CF) or LIQUID gallons(7.48G=1CF)?

i have been using this website for math conversions instead of google, because i realized google was giving me LIQUID gallon conversions only.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volume-units-converter-d_1034.html

im about to throw a mix together this week, and now i have to ponder them numbers.

yourcorpse

Did you want the accurate answer? (this is the one where I come off as a prick)

Or would you like the 'RWA' (real world answer)?

At the end of the day you're in the same ball park but I'd like to improve my 'inter-personal relationships' deal.

Let me know!

LOL

CC

 

[Corpsey]

how about both? haha

im from a place where we are BLUNT, so i come off as a prick all the time when im just trying to get from A to B in social interaction(not my strong suit).

 

[Clackamas Coot]

how about both? haha

im from a place where we are BLUNT, so i come off as a prick all the time when im just trying to get from A to B in social interaction(not my strong suit).

Well - in any negotiation it's always helpful to 'see the other side' in order to come to an agreement, i.e. both parties need to feel that they achieved something in the deal - i.e. detente

From a legal perspective a cubic foot = 7.48 c.f.

Kewl! We have a starting point, eh?

Well - no we don't actually. Before getting into the soil deal, let's discuss nursery pots.

You probably expect a #1 nursery pot to hold 1 gallon, correct?

Let me know.

CCC

 

[Corpsey]

haha, nope. i know that pots do not hold what they are sold/labeled as. so i do see where you are going with this..
go on