Decarboxylated BHO--can it really enhance THC & CBN?

[Govinda]

Hey Vapeman...don't know which batch you tested (been at a few sampling sessions)--but hopefully you tried the 2nd batch, as the first batch seemed rather "heavy" with esters of oak.

The second run was 240 grams and in Mason Jars (1/2 gallon size) with each holding 60 grams of mediocre flower (no leaf or trim) and decarboxylated (cooked) for 2 hours at 220 degrees (slow and low).

The results were a darker toasted bud that seemed to me slightly much more potent when smoked--with emphasis on the body high and no different in the head high.

The flowers were crumbled into tubes and lightly tamped--with about 30 grams per tube. While cleaning the tubes, I noticed that the vegetable material had compacted to the lower 2/3 and was much harder to remove. (The prior batch had only compacted to the lower 3/4--with only 28 grams per tube). I normally use 1 can of 300 ml butane (5x filtered) for each tube and there was no real change in the yield percentage for a total of 38.5 grams of very viscous dark amber colored (not green) oil.

Now...the objective is to "thicken" this decarboxylated oil--as the collective prefers something that is more solid and less runny. Normally, I "temper" my BHO to harden up a bit like taffy--but not this batch. I even tried whipping air (budder) but to no avail.

I tried rendering a small sample last night with vodka to see if grain alcohol would do anything...it did seem to be a bit more thicker but not by much. I will test the heat-freeze-heat-freeze-heat-freeze trick--as well as the adding some kief to the oil, and then try Jump's ethanol treatment.

This decarboxylated oil is a little different to work with--so if anyone has an idea with a method or technique to thicken the consistency...your input is welcomed.

Cheers!

Shoulda decarbed after extraction, that generally yields shatter oil that is very easy to handle (except when it explodes into pieces from being manipulated cold).

If ya wanna fix this current batch I'd just add dry sift until it becomes like a dough.

 

[EclipseFour20]

I suspect the viscous change in my purged decarboxylated oil is possibly due to decrease in waxes and "other stuff" that were "vaporized" while heating at 220 degrees. And this might explain the failures of using my normal tempering technique and the "stoner stupid budder" technique of whipping air into oil (or oxygenating oil, something I do not do since I believe it contributes to less aromatics and faster degradation). Besides, any decrease in waxes and "other stuff" is a good thing--in my book.

BTW...I reheated the bho and added some kief (about 3-4 grams to 15 grams of oil) and the results are quite satisfactory. Oil made from decarbed flower has a slight oaky, woody, toasty whiskey barrel like aftertaste since all the beautiful sweet floral aromatics were "burnt off" (hence the toastiness). The combination of the two ingredients (decarbed oil & non-decarbed kief) provided some floral aromas and the stoney recreational feelings--and the oil provieded the body relaxing and very analgesic feelings. Hmmm, a higher THC/CBN ratio seems to be the end result when kief is added to high CBN oil.

I think the next step is to play around with high THC flowers (non-decarbed) and high CBN flowers (decarbed) and see what ratio of the two is best. Maybe having an oil that is high in BOTH THC & CBN is a whole lot easier than finding a flower with the same numbers; designer oils are probably the next horizon--that is until big pharma takes over (which may or may not be in my lifetime).

Now...with 7 grams of decarbed oil wifey made 60 1" caramels and pow that is the right marriage (damn can she cook!). I am not an edible person...but I took one of these babies yesterday evening and I had a great restful sleep; something that has been super rare.

After the first chew a slight taste of buttery creamy caramel greets your taste buds--then the cannabis oaky taste presents itself. Immediately after each chew there seems to be a battle between the creamy butter and decarbed oil toasty oaky flavor (never too strong but evident)...then puff, zero. The cannabis flavor is gone, just a nice creamy buttery caramel aftertaste. The real test is what the collective members think--we will see, dropping off 60 today.

Cheers!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Quick update---the caramels are a hit, now how fast will it take wifey to make 200?

Here is the recipe she used--for the 60 one-inch squares (8" square pan).
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ina-garten/fleur-de-sel-caramels-recipe2/index.html

 

[Gray Wolf]

Bump

 

[EclipseFour20]

You are right...my bad--I need to finish what I started. I have some thoughts to improve the process and with a harvest drying as I type...I think a series of tests are in order.

Then, lets take this to the next step and play with Jump's method for absolute...so you smart guys don't go too far away. Decarbed absolute!

Cheers!

 

[2000pm]

You are right...my bad--I need to finish what I started. I have some thoughts to improve the process and with a harvest drying as I type...I think a series of tests are in order.

Then, lets take this to the next step and play with Jump's method for absolute...so you smart guys don't go too far away. Decarbed absolute!

Cheers!

Isn't the second double boil (to evap the ethanol) aiding in the decarb process of the absolute already?

 

[EclipseFour20]

Isn't the second double boil (to evap the ethanol) aiding in the decarb process of the absolute already?

Good point!

Assuming the decarboxylation science in the above referenced patent is sound--the suggested temperatures and times are (col 14):

For material high in--
-CBD: 1 hour at 120°C (248°F) or 1/2 hour at 140°C (284°F), and
-THC (and to minimize CBN formation): 1-2 hours at 105°C (221°F), or 1 hour at 120°C (248°F)

So....if we treat these as "not to exceed" numbers, the question I pose---is the process to decarboxylate flowers identical to decarbing concrete/absolute? In other words, are the times and temps to decarb flowers--identical for extracts? Maybe adjusting the first "cooking time" by secondary heat times could be something to look at.

Ahh...a few more side by side comparisons; this is going to be fun and educational!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Good point!

Assuming the decarboxylation science in the above referenced patent is sound--the suggested temperatures and times are (col 14):

For material high in--
-CBD: 1 hour at 120°C (248°F) or 1/2 hour at 140°C (284°F), and
-THC (and to minimize CBN formation): 1-2 hours at 105°C (221°F), or 1 hour at 120°C (248°F)

So....if we treat these as "not to exceed" numbers, the question I pose---is the process to decarboxylate flowers identical to decarbing concrete/absolute? In other words, are the times and temps to decarb flowers--identical for extracts? Maybe adjusting the first "cooking time" by secondary heat times could be something to look at.

Ahh...a few more side by side comparisons; this is going to be fun and educational!

Graphs and guidelines are the stuff of science and wonderful things. As I have no way of knowing exactly how decarboxylated any given material already is when I receive it however, I generally follow the graphs, but use actual observation as my guide.

Decarboxylation gives off CO2, which can be observed exiting in the form of fine equally sized bubbles, after the solvents have already been purged.

The graphs I use suggest that about 70% decarboxylation achieves the maximum THC levels, so if I am striving for maximum THC, I stop when the small CO2 bubbles suddenly significantly fall off, as opposed to when they are totally gone.

 

[eloquentsoution]

what an interesting compilation of information on decarboxylation. all good points.

 

[Shaman101]

hello, have a few questions here.... would likde to have anyones 2 cents please. ty

so if understood right, if im winterizing bho with ethanol, the decarboxylation occurs when ive evaporated all the ethanol (lil bubbles start to blow, when all the ethanol is almost evaporated)???

and if i was to acetylate or isomerize (not sure whats the right term) with sulfuric acid, that would convert the cbn into thc acetate? any have tried this?

been experimenting lately with bho, dont have a vaccum purge, and hate the butane taste my product 1st had in my vapepen, so ive decided to try winterizing the bho, and im really satisfied with the results, much cleaner taste than the bho... but now i want to experiment more, thats how i stumble upon this old thread about decarboxylating thc...

ty

 

[jump117]

decarboxylation occurs when ive evaporated all the ethanol (lil bubbles start to blow, when all the ethanol is almost evaporated)?

Separate small bubbles may be residual ethanol, but may be CO2 of partial decarboxylation.
To avoid prolonged overheat and partial decarboxylation, better evaporate small portions of the solution.

While ethanol boils , the temperature does not rise above the boiling point of ethanol.
When ethanol remains little, temperature rises to the temperature of the heater.
On a steam bath to the boiling point of water.

Extensive decarboxylation occurs at even higher temperatures ,
then the melt surface is covered by a dense carpet of small bubbles of the same size.

and if i was to acetylate or isomerize (not sure whats the right term) with sulfuric acid, that would convert the cbn into thc acetate? any have tried this?

Better not to do it, as long as you will not understand.

 

[EclipseFour20]

I don't "blow" anymore, but let me blow some life in my old "decarb thread". I passed most of my secrets to someone that does and he recently quized me about decarbing flowers.

One trick I discovered long time ago was when the end product was "sexy oil" like consistency (thick oil)...if one were to add kief to the flowers before blowing, the end product will be hard, budder/hash-like...no more goo or axle grease like consistency.

I predicted if he did the same with decarb flowers (but use a goodly amount of kief...like 10% +), the end product should be less "oily" and more like taffy.

He just informed me it worked like a champ! Decarb "taffy". Most potent--but still has a nutty like flavor (not unpleasant, but distinguishable). He gave me a sample, very clean and nighty night quality.

I asked why he wanted to decarb, and he said the flowers were like 9% thc...and thought decarbing would kick it up a bit. Let's just say, this is the most potent 9% connie I have ever smoked....lol.

So there you go!