passive plant killer

[ImaginaryFriend]

why the advice on horizontal bulbs

I'm just not sure how you're gonna get the clearance from the bulb to plant for effective light distribution. With the closet only two and a half feet wide, you'll have to train the plants directly against the wall. Even running six plants, you'll only have 16" of width, about sixteen inches of depth to train into three foot vertical space.

Do to lack of foresight, I struggled in keeping three foot tall plants contained in that space. Had I trained everything away from the light to vertical screens right on the walls, I might have had a chance.

If you run horizontal, and you practice defoliation, you should get plenty of light penetration into the canopy. So you should be able to generate 14+" of flowers across the tops of the plants, with your total foot print of just under 12 ft square running two 600s. The training is relatively simple.

I think you will spend much more time training/vegging out plants you try and get into that vertical alignment.

Maybe something more creative is in order though.

Maybe a stadium with trained or transplanted horizontal main stems... hum... that google Sketchup has never worked for me. I don't know how to express this idea coherently...

If you want to do six plants, why not a nice 4x8 tent? Each plant gets a nice two by two space...

 

[daggerinmyback]

4x4 tent was all mad wife approved... she already dropped half my budget for grow stuff cause of big light buy out lol, I hadnt remembered the safe distance from the light I was using a ton of LED panels and cfl for under lighting before and they could touch the panels and not get too bad before I trained em...

what is the safe distance for a 600w ? and I like the training part, but was thinking kinda almost weaving the side growth like those bamboo things

maybe lateral cool tubes should be the way... I just dread the whole ventilation and fan size calculation etc ... sucks but has to be done maybe just 4 in there at a time? and two training... ? I plan on doing the 5 week-ish veg and training in a different area, then bloom room em... maybe a scrOG ? but definately gonna PPK that was the easiest way Ive ever grown anything and my basil plant was like 6 feet tall and 3 feet wide in the time it would usually only be 3 feet tall and 18" wide with stalks

looking into how to use that google thing... for some reason my comp crashes it everytime its opened...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

4x4 doesn't seem it, but it's pretty big if your just going for a single stack of lights up the middle. Good planning, good genetics and a few PPKs should result in definitive awesomeness...

 

[Darth Fader]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery D9. Hope you're feeling better amigo.

 

[daggerinmyback]

wheres D9 to call me an idiot toying with his invention?? ... hope hes ok...

and I'm thinking this through now cause my ceiling is above the 5'7" mark and I planned on using the extra headroom to lift the verticals up as plants started stretching, but the laterals make a ScrOG training look promising... This will be the decision that takes forever....
but I Dunno the useful range of a 600w, and is there a minimum Rez Depth after airgap for best results? I know to keep the airgap around 1.5" depending on moisture needs and I think I'll use 3.5 on top of 3.5 or a 3.5 in a 5gallon checking clearances now that will determine the lights as well..

D9... you OK man?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

is there a minimum Rez Depth after airgap for best results

Nope. But more feed solution lends itself to stability and buffers against retarded moves like letting the bulk reservoir run dry.

The 3.5 in 5 should work fine... If you stack them, then fasten them together (nuts and bolts, or zip ties) and then perforate both walls, you should get a nice low profile system with air pruning and O2 to the roots. (I'm proud of that idea. It's been in my head since shortly after the stacked bucket PPK was introduced. But my fingers were slow in typing it...)

 

[SCROG McDuck]

Nope. But more feed solution lends itself to stability and buffers against retarded moves like letting the bulk reservoir run dry.

The 3.5 in 5 should work fine... If you stack them, then fasten them together (nuts and bolts, or zip ties) and then perforate both walls, you should get a nice low profile system with air pruning and O2 to the roots. (I'm proud of that idea. It's been in my head since shortly after the stacked bucket PPK was introduced. But my fingers were slow in typing it...)

"nuts and bolts".. I do not remember seeing anything
about nuts and bolts.. and fastening the top and bottom
components together.. what post number am I looking for?

you are saying: to perforate the bottom of the top bucket (the pot) and the lid of the bottom (the rez), are fastened (nuts and bolts/zip tied) together?

"and then perforate both walls" ?? ^^^!!?? Side wall of pot, right.

I missed both points somewhere; why are we doing that?
air prune roots (pot) I get..
Just cut some bubba and do not seem to
be interpreting well.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Ah... you will only find that idea in post #1586.

D9 is supports the idea of the perforated pot. His suggestion is that in addition to redistributing root mass--by way of air pruning--is improved root zone access to O2.

I have had the good fortune to see the results of a perforated pot in three different scenarios: my PPKs, DTW Coco, and amended organic soils. The root balls emerging from the altered pots are quite different (i.e. incredibly more dense) than their un-wounded brethren (i.e. root balls emerging from unaltered pots/buckets/random units of media holdingness).

So: if you want to build a nested bucket PPK and still gain the benefits I've observed, you need to come up with a solution that aligns these air holes so air can do it's thing.

So: I propose you connect the buckets first (however you choose--zip ties, wire, nuts'n'bolts (MORE DETAIL: two holes, off set, bolted together will make a pair that can be separated for hygienic concerns, but will always realign without thought), THEN drill/slash your holes through both. Now you have a nice and low profile PPK with air pruning/O2 benefits. It's maybe the cheapest setup yet. And you feel terrifically clever. And perhaps even feel like you might even be more attractive for that cleverness. And that sense of beauty might make you more confident. And with that increased confidence, you might just become president. And then, with 'the president' on your resume, you might become an astronaut. And go into outer space and meet aliens. Who have, I suspect, most excellent pastries.

And most excellent pastries, enjoyed with aliens, is a very good way to spend an afternoon.

A very good interspace afternoon indeed.

 

[SCROG McDuck]

Ah... you will only find that idea in post #1586.

AAAHA! Maybe I did see it and forgot! HAHA!!

D9 is supports the idea of the perforated pot. His suggestion is that in addition to redistributing root mass by way of air pruning is improved o2 access to the root zones.

I have had the good fortune to see the results of a perforated pot in three different scenarios: my PPKs, DTW Coco, and amended organic soils. The root balls emerging from the altered pots are quite different (i.e. incredibly more dense) than their un-wounded brethren (i.e. root balls emerging from unaltered pots/buckets/random units of media holdingness).

So: if you want to build a nested bucket PPK and still gain the benefits I've observed, you need to come up with a solution that aligns these air holes so air can do it's thing.

In the original PPK design, the idea, I thought, was to limit O2
access in the rez to 'minimize' evaporation?

So: I propose you connect the buckets first (however you choose--zip ties, wire, nuts'n'bolts (MORE DETAIL: two holes, off set, bolted together will make a pair that can be separated for hygienic concerns, but will always realign without thought), THEN drill, cut your holes through both. Now you have a nice and low profile PPK with air pruning/O2 benefits. It's maybe the cheapest setup yet. And you feel terrifically clever. And perhaps even feel like you might be more attractive for that cleverness. And more confident. And with that increased confidence, you might just become president.

Do I get a nobel Peace Prize too, Uncle IF!?

I just finished a run where the 4 ppks' were 3.5 Gbuckets, inside 5 Gbuckets.
All 'pots' sides were drilled out for air pruning, NP.

None showed sighns of deficiencies w Jacks @ 750.. Ph??
WGap 3.5 in, I'd make it 2" in the future.

The bottoms of 2 pots were drilled out, 2 were not.
The 2 that were drilled had roots, fair amount, in the rez, nice and white.

The other 2 without bottom holes drilled, did not have roots in the rez.
I'd rather not have the roots in the rz.. ??just me.

Only fair yields.. but I have no history with the strain..
Will go to 3.5s stacked in the nex week or 2.. controll rez will be different. Nuts and bolts, Huh!?? LOL! OK, zip ties, maybe.

Later, I will revisit, at some point in time, the 3.5 inside the 5 gallon bucket.. maybe. I already have them made.

They have a lower center of gravity and are very stable in the tent.

 

[oldone]

And you feel terrifically clever. And perhaps even feel like you might even be more attractive for that cleverness. And that sense of beauty might make you more confident. And with that increased confidence, you might just become president. And then, with 'the president' on your resume, you might become an astronaut. And go into outer space and meet aliens. Who have, I suspect, most excellent pastries.

And most excellent pastries, enjoyed with aliens, is a very good way to spend an afternoon.

A very good interspace afternoon indeed.

Nice to see your're smoking your stash at last. Try not to drive while doing so.

Thanks for the laugh,
OO

 

[daggerinmyback]

LMAO nice, I wanna meet aliens... but that reminds me of a clerks 2 quote.. yep there he goes homeboy fucked a martian...

what about air exchange in tent/room I will have 96cu ft, and am looking at fans/charcoal inline filters but dunno what CFM I need and have found many affordable options ... and doesnt the air you put through affect the pH +/- depending on ambient air contaminates? I noticed that with a rDWC 6 pod thing... but it was primarily the airpump/air stone in it pumping air through the water making pH yo-yo... dunno how much it could affect the small rez in bucket just to be open but shouldnt be much but I see pot breathability as a way to ensure top+bottom feed creates the vacuum it needs to draw the top feed through completely... (no pressure build in media/rez hold area to stop the flow even though it would still eventually wick out)

also are you running straight RO water in the top pulse feeds?
What brand of valve stems are you using and what length? Im getting ready to order the box of 50 just need dimensions/brand info if any lol

and man this has came a long way since starting... now I'm turning everything into mPPKs lol I need something else for a hobby now...

 

[daggerinmyback]

rereading around page 89 theres a quote bout only 2 floats... I thought each bucket had a float control valve in it? like mounted next to the media wick with a level of 1.5" above it for airgap, now theres a control bucket... was I doing something wrong? I thought huge rez-many valve stems flowed to each float valve in each bucket on that rez ... when did the control bucket get added...? lol

this migraine is killing me maybe it wiped my brain of knowledge .... need aliens

 

[oldone]

Hey Dagger,

The floats thing is if you can have all of your containers on the same level like D9's. If so a single float in the control bucket is enough. Otherwise if you need to move a container closer to the light then a float would be required in that ppk. It all depends...

OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Scrog:

In the original PPK design, the idea, I thought, was to limit O2 access in the rez to 'minimize' evaporation?

My understanding is that the effort to minimize the evaporation was a means of keeping salts in solution in a stable concentration; that is, a concept related to reducing salt build up in the upper portion of the media as the bottom fed coco evaporated off the top, leaving salts behind. The other effort, in closing up the bottom reservoir, was to to keep the feed solution stable.

This concept predated the pulse approach--which help keep salts in the system by flushing them back into the media.

The holes were initially an idea to generate root pruning and change the root distribution within the media; D9 later noted is suspicion that favorable growth was resulting from more O2 exchange within the media.

Dagger:

also are you running straight RO water in the top pulse feeds?

This is a posibility that I have entertained. If my intent is to use the pulse to move the salts that tend to accumulate at the top of the media by way of evaporation down and back into the system, why not use a RO pulse?

Alternatively, why drop the whole system's EC down a little bit so that I hit target goals in the media in a manner that takes into account the increased salt content of the pulse feed as it reintegrates consolidated salts.

Six of one...

A straight RO feed demands a little bit of extra plumbing from the RO source... Maybe? I guess it depends on the setup.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Side note: It looks like Carl has left the forums.

I miss his links and input.

 

[daggerinmyback]

I noticed that its kinda in his memory... he had good input and links too... its sad when people leave like that... but I guess thats life... wish this was legal everywhere so people wouldnt have to be so paranoid....

 

[daggerinmyback]

wait so if all are on the same level then only one float in the control bucket? what level are you plumbing in the "pods" so to speak... I may need a pic of that... the setup that got taken :,( was all a huge rez stemmed into buckets with each having a float control valve but those are now expensive as hell, and if theres a way to do the control bucket and only use one to three of them it would save me from buying a total of 12 ... I looked at the diagram (pg 89ish) and was so confused im gonna reread all the IF OO and PPK threads this weekend ... already have a migraine from 89 pages of this today alone and 4 pages of IF thread on PPK ... but gonna order the tent while onsale at half price and free shipping this weekend and also light systems before the price jumps back up, any CFM reccommendation on a cooltube inline fan? and yeah found a temp controlled programmable outlet for the fans outlets so I can use less power and not over vent...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

That's an example of D9's control. It has a top on it to control evaporation, but inside the bucket is the single float valve that controls the level of all of the sub-reservoirs. It is plumbed out of the bottom of the bucket, to the bottom of the lower reservoirs, and the single float controls the level of everything. (One of the lines leads to a separate bucket that hosts the pump for the pulse feeds, and that too is managed by the single float valve=saved cash.)

 

[daggerinmyback]

sweet deal and thank you guys

Im trying to be green (ooh a pun) and in the 4X4X7 tent now I'm trying to figure out light setups lol two vertical 600's or the cool tubes or one of each... I have access to buy whatever really (I even looked at a 1000w switchable) but was thinking 2 600's would be easier to move and hit better than on 1kw ...

now I just need a CFM guide(for tent air exchange and cooltubes) since they confiscated all my books that even looked "hippy" lol even "Steal This Book" an original print from the 60's... sad days when they take the hippy counterculture's books from your in home library...

damn makes me feel stupid for having the 85 float valve purchase on that first run lol

never thought gravity would hav been this efficient...

and whats the drip feed "John Guest" fitting? I'm building the manifold for the drip lines as I wait on UPS lol as well as bucket drilling and drawing after drawing...

 

[daggerinmyback]

and whats the PH you guys are starting with in youre RO water as I know not all RO's were the same ...