okay PICS of mite looking damage that ISN'T!

[Marquis de Sod]

HERE ARE THE pics.
do i really have to fill out that mile long form?? it would be nice if somebody could just tell me what it is by looking at this. i am going to load four pics. don't comment till you see them all.

grown in straight ProMix in a one gallon pot, then transplanted into a 2 gallon pot filled with straight ordinary Miracle Gro potting mix. out of about 20 only two or three look like this, it is NOT spreading to other plants. it started on the bottom leafs and is going up.

the dots are NOT eggs and there is no sign of spider mites anywhere.
the dots are a lesion inside the leaf material. they do not move, they are not pusy but look like puss like a herpie or something.

Note that they are only along the veins of the leaf. none in between the veins.

the tops went from dots to a fungus looking thing.

a commercial green house disease guy said it looked to him like a fertilizer issue or deficiency. but couldnt spend more than 3 minutes looking at it.

watered with straight water at about 6.3 to 6.7. only given alaska fish fertilizer a couple times, as well as PBP veg. like i said only issue is on three of 20 plants, not spreading.

Papaya indica, 3-4wks bloom, RH 30 max, temp mid 60's to right at 80F. 2 gal pot, 1KW HPS, @30" above. very clean tap water aerated. hope tha's enuf. put a sprinkle of dolomite lime in with the dirt also some ( 1 or 2 handfulls) of 8 yr old composted cow poop in with the MG when i txplanted.

 

[Apicalmeristem]

cal/mag issue

 

[Marquis de Sod]

well, thats a easy fix. did you even see the pics? i noticed you posted while i was uploading the first one.

 

[northstate]

2nd vote Ca, mag def. is starting to develope...Prolly ph related. Your water is soft (low PPM) and your plants need Ca......NS

 

[Apicalmeristem]

yeah i saw the first one and its clear to me those are a cal/mag def spots

 

[Marquis de Sod]

COOL BEANS. got some cal mag sittin right here. held off on almost all my ferts cause of them being in relatively fresh MG. thanks. will feed them next watering. would a foliar work better or just as good?

(and yes i got the softest water i've ever seen, doesnt even leave water spots on my car if i leave it wet in the sun)

 

[Apicalmeristem]

Are you PHing your water you may be having an uptake problem due to ph. Since you said you are in fresh MG I assume that means you have nutes available in the soil so it leads me to ph

 

[Marquis de Sod]

i check only the water i water with. what is the right way to ph run-off water?

(btw, i took all my pics by holding a magnifying glass right next to my camera lens. big sexy eh?)

 

[Marquis de Sod]

want to say that i have watered with CalMag Plus and have ended up with worse problems: all yellow leaves down low and looks for real like the pics in Stitch's sticky under NOT magnesium deficiency but MAGANESE deficiency. so i have mixed in some GH hydro MICRO in water and sprayed it on them. we'll see what happens. also as for ph lockout, still waiting for someone to tell me how to do a run off water test properly.

also not all that hip on the diff btwn maganese and magnesium, just know they are two different elements with different atomic numbers.

 

[Leroy Brown]

i check only the water i water with. what is the right way to ph run-off water?

I'm not sure if it's the 'right way', but I run 6.2 water through until I get runoff, collect it, & measure it's PH. That will tell you what you need to know.

Couldn't it be something fungal? Are they from seed or clone?

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

deff calcium/mag issue from what i see....


aslo could be ph spots from drastic ph swings....

 

[daheadies]

yup cal mag I would htink for sure.. Only other time i have seen that is from bushmaster, which is potash and sea kelp.. either way.. I would flush out and give a little liquid karma to get things back on track =)

Apical.. you think this is deficiency instead of over feed? Definitly could be right.. I havnt looked at the book in awhile, but at first thought it was over feed...

 

[Marquis de Sod]

these are papaya clones in straight MG. they have only been in bloom about a month and were txplanted into 2 gallons of MG from a 1 gal pot of ProMix HP. fed with 1tbs/gal of budswel and 5ml seaweed extract. now on biobizz bloom and budswel but will just water with calmag plus till this goes away.

as for run off. should i soak the dirt really good, pour THAT run off out, wait a few minutes, then water and take THAT run off and measure ph? (i dont have a ppm meter).


i will get some new pics up today also. All my plants that are still in veg, in the same medium, are looking very healthy btw.

seeing as how i got the Epsom salts sittin right there, any suggestions as to it's use?

 

[Marquis de Sod]

starting to think it is a toxicity problem because calmag made it worse. so anyway should flush them. dont know how in hell it could be toxicity in one month old MG but oh well. maybe i gave them too much epsom salt and the calmag, i DONT FRIKEN KNOW!!! anyway, here is an answer to ph'ing i have been looking for i finally found since nobody seemed to want to cough it up.
QUOTE
Pimp Aurora
Bud blaster

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 473
Pimp Aurora will become famous soon enough Pimp Aurora will become famous soon enough

What's the pH of the run off?
in case you or someone else doesn't know how to test the run off..
an easy way to test the pH in compost is after you have watered/fertilized the plant, wait 30 minutes to an hour, add a small amount of distilled water to the top of the pot, aim for a couple ounces of run off from the bottom, then test that ph sample."

 

[VapedOutJoe]

Hey M,

I can't say for sure, but it dows look like Mag. deficiency. Here's what I have from the Plant problem guide: (without the pics)
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency:
"Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients. "

What is your waters ppm? I've had this issue so I went to RO water and add cal mag in at about 150 ppm, and that seems to be a good point for me. I would start with a proper flush, then water with PH'd water (good clean water), and foliar feed with cal mag. If the rust stops, then proceed to feeding accordingly. If you want to water with nutes, run them at a low dose, 1/4 to 1/2 max until you figure out the issue. I would wait a watering at least though.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Marquis de Sod]

so another vote for deficiency vs. toxicity.

looks like that ph run off test is first on the agenda, then i will dose with either the epsom salts or the dolomite lime or probably both in straight water.

any other opinions pls chime in as giving more mg if it's poisoning them will obviously NOT be a good thing. the last pics i posted are pretty much what i got now but the brown has increased in area.


okay, poured ph 7 water into and soaked one. waited about half an hour, poured in more, my run off ph is 5.8. i will get another gallon of ph 7 thru it. then add 2 tsp of dolomite lime to a gal of ph7, set the sediment settle, water plant, and see WTF : here's the directions to add dolomite lime per post in sticky:

"dont use ph up... just a temp fix and will drop right back down.... i take 2tbsp of dolomite lime per gallon of water, mix it up and let sit for 12hours min. carefully water without disturbing sediment or filter. should solve your problem quickly and for good. next grow mix 1tbsp per gallon of soil to prevent proble from occuring. it caused from the peat in the soil breaking down and dropping your ph.

WAIT 12 HRS!? You KNOW i'm A.D.D. Dont You????

i actually dont see how .02 of ph can cause all this. maybe its deficiency after all. hey. please to help me out on this mofo.

 

[VapedOutJoe]

Hey M, Keep us updated on what works. I've had an issue that looks like this, like i mentioned before. I flushed for a couple weeks and never saw any fix. Once I started using clean ReverseOsmosis water and added in the cal mag myself is when i started having less spots and finally decent growth.
My vote is unknown. I mention both bad water, and Mg deficiency. My water was at over 300 PPM when i had issues, and when i thought mg def, i added cal mag and it ended up looking like yours does.
How much PH down/up are you using to get to your 7?

 

[Mitakoye Oyasin]

I just saw ur thread and I recently had the exact same thing happen to me. Same exact look on the worst of the plants
I don;'t know how much epsom u used but my issue was fully resolved by flushing and renutrating.
My issue was deffinatly caused by too much epsom salts which locked my root zone up.
I checked my run off it was ph 5.4 and 1980 or something ppm.
The high ppm and low ph told me my plants werent eating what I had fed them.
I concluded why was because I locked up with an od on epsom salt.
Like I said in ur case I dont know how much epsoms uve fed them but if the case is the same as mine then theyll get worse until u flush them and flush them good.
In my case I know for a fact it was too much epsom. I gave them 2 tablespoons per gallon when I noticed a mag defficency, which was entirely too much.
I was high that night and freaked cause I noticed a mag deff and was out of my normal sea mag so I grabbed the epsom and the inernet, before I found this site, and either read bogus info, or read the info wrong, but thought I was supposed to give 2 table spooons.
Thats way too much, it should be like a teaspoon or something. I just never use epsom. Just that once, and that is 100% down to the tea what my plants did and it was also at about the 3 week spot and also in promix hp.
I had another batch of the same strain 1 week into flower so taking that into consideration I adjusted my regime on the others,
foliar fed like hell on the affected ones and stayed on top of the new batch with foliars also, depending on what the leaves told me to give them.
At the 2-3 week period sometimes they may get a foliar feed two or 3 days on a row. Not the same kinda nutrients every time
mabee a break a few days then back at it again, just kinda adjust to the look of my plant.
Anyways, after flushing the affected ones, it was a calcium lockout by too much mg, then I made sure to give more calcium and I made sure to give No mg for about a week, and the plants totaly kicked ass and put off 4 oz'z a piece str8 frosted, but the affected leaves do not recover, there just is new growth that looks more normal.
The others that were a week in never developed the issues, I made sure to foliar feed more cal mag and I swithced from a sepreate calcium and mag supp like I was using, and started giving them calmag plus in every feeding at like high dosages. I gave em 10 ml to the gallon the first time and then 7 ever since and they never showed the problem at all and are stilll chugging away.

 

[Mitakoye Oyasin]

I should mention that my dosages of cal mag may be higher than u need. I co2 enhance at 1500ppm so mine may need more calmag than urs.

 

[Marquis de Sod]

thanks so much. i was just going to water with the lime. needed to know about adding the epson. i wont now. i will keep in touch.