To lime or not to lime

[Tactical Farmer]

The hellish part was not knowing why the plants were all messed up, back & forth not sure if they were over or underfed mostly. The first thing I changed early on was the water source, fairly hard well water 7.2 which came from 2 different (not me) tests. Didn't have a meter then.

Used a RO/DI machine & local spring water but without a doubt the lime was still giving me problems with runoff constantly over 7.

Hell I even moved & now use 6.5 ish local spring water & gave the lime another try 1TBS/Gal & it still messed up that grow.

Managed an average harvest but def a step backwards from the excellent harvests before & after.

 

[Scrogerman]

The hellish part was not knowing why the plants were all messed up, back & forth not sure if they were over or underfed mostly. The first thing I changed early on was the water source, fairly hard well water 7.2 which came from 2 different (not me) tests. Didn't have a meter then.

Used a RO/DI machine & local spring water but without a doubt the lime was still giving me problems with runoff constantly over 7.

Hell I even moved & now use 6.5 ish local spring water & gave the lime another try 1TBS/Gal & it still messed up that grow.

Managed an average harvest but def a step backwards from the excellent harvests before & after.

See, this is what fks my head up to, but im resided to testing my soil PH before, ammending accordingly etc, testing again if nessasary, i think at least if i test my shit im gonna know where i stand, composition,PH,etc. So in future i aint sticking no plants in nothing without either a prior heads-up mix from someone trusted or i run the tests, little room for excuses then, im sure ill still find some though.
Cheers!

What type of lime was it you were using TacticleF?

 

[Scrappy4]

Thanks for the contribution Tactical Farmer. plus reps

I think this is a fairly common problem. A lot of people have hard water, and could benefit from less lime. And then there is the adding of homemade compost of unknown ph and cal amounts.

I know the argument of not using a ph meter, and I somewhat agree, until things go south that is. Then you want to know why it happened, and how to prevent it from happneing again, and then, a ph meter is a valuable tool.......scrappy

 

[mad librettist]

I know the argument of not using a ph meter, and I somewhat agree, until things go south that is. Then you want to know why it happened, and how to prevent it from happneing again, and then, a ph meter is a valuable tool.......scrappy

just spend the cash and get a microscope already! Much handier than a pH pen.

here is the deal - bacteria tend to raise pH, fungi tend to lower it. You can mess around with your pen and keep adding harmful shit to override the microherd, or you can get your shit together and build a soil that can thrive on its own.

 

[Kaneh]

lime? who needs lime when you have humus, organic matter and microbes

I do!!!
I just made new soil mix with commercial bagged soil, compost, EWC and peat. My plants were suffering and dying for first 4 weeks.
Then I added lime. After that this looks like it's gonna be my best grow ever. Plants are 100% happy.

I wasted 4 weeks before I measured the runoff for PH, it was low. I added lime> all problems disappeared. It was night and day difference. I was ready to ditch the whole grow, it looked hopeless...

So using lime is fundamental when making new soilmix that contains peat. IMHO

 

[jaykush]

So using lime is fundamental when making new soilmix that contains peat. IMHO

yea i knew that was going to bite me in the butt. let me rephrase what i said.

lime? who needs lime when you have humus, organic matter, microbes and real soil not peat

 

[Scrappy4]

just spend the cash and get a microscope already! Much handier than a pH pen.

here is the deal - bacteria tend to raise pH, fungi tend to lower it. You can mess around with your pen and keep adding harmful shit to override the microherd, or you can get your shit together and build a soil that can thrive on its own.

As soon as i get an extra $600 I'll revisit the issue. (not likely anytime soon)

But i disagree on the need for a ph tester. I think it can be a valuable tool. How do you know your water's ph, unless you test? You can't assume we all have super duper soil mixes that can buffer the ups and downs that happen along the way.

I help a lot of growers in my baileywick, some can double their yeilds, with just a tweak here and there. Again knowing things like ph can be valuable.

And (Jaykush) truthfully most of us have and use peat based mixes. My goal is to move in the direction of a custom mix, but it all takes time. You gotta walk before you can run......scrappy

 

[mad librettist]

You can't assume we all have super duper soil mixes that can buffer the ups and downs that happen along the way.

I'm not in the habit of assuming people aren't getting the most important part of organic growing at least in the same ballpark as "correct". I mean shit, you got the pen, you like to use it, why bother with organics if you aren't willing to make a super duper soil mix?

Peat needs lime, that's the way it is.

People are having great success with hard well water, and I am reading some dude figured it all out when he got a pH pen and his water was 7.2 or whatever, practically neutral. I am not buying it, and not buying a pH pen either. If you use a pH pen, and make your moves based on what it says, every success will be because you are such a genius with the pen. In the end it's just a charm that gives you a false sense of control.

With a scope, you will mess around until you see critters. Then you will mess around more until you see the right critters. When you see the right critters, you are golden. I have never seen the right critters and bad results in the same place.

 

[Scrappy4]

A ph pen is a tool, nothing more. Tools are good. I would not throw out my car jack because i think my tires are superior either. It's not like we are basing our entire grow on ph, but like it or not, ph does play a roll.

If you have a compost based mix, it does not happen over night, it takes time. My indoor growing experience is only slightly over a year old. My soil mix is still a work in progress. In the mean time I still grow, but also read and learn. I'm not going to wait to grow untill i think my soil is perfect, I'm a old man after all.

I have averaged over 4+ oz per plant on some grows and 2 per on others. If all my grows were perfect I wouldn't need a ph pen. Admittedly I have a lot to learn. Hopefully one day I can have my own super duper mix but until then, I read, I learn, and yes, use my tools......scrappy

 

[mad librettist]

To lime or not to lime

scrappy, you drop me off anywhere, give me 6 months, a few tools, and some local knowledge,I will show you some great herb made without a pH pen.

make me use a pen though, and somehow I will come up with pH problems.

get off that pH pen as soon as you can.

edit: notice I mentioned "local knowledge"

 

[Tactical Farmer]

What type of lime was it you were using TacticleF?

Its been A LONG time ago since ive seen that bag of lime, it was dolomite kind with 2x the cal to mag "not sure of the brand" got it from a small local nursery. small seed sized pieces.

count me out of this debate, ive put in my 2 cents, if my homemade peat based reused soil fed with EJ ever gets below 6 then I will start using a bit of lime again but after nearly 4 years it hasn't happened yet, with those 2 items you would think it would be pretty darn acidic but it ain't yet.

it just seems funny to me that most of us do all these funky methods when growing organic but dont take the small amount of time to check what your mediums PH is at least once a month ?

ive def found a sweet spot around 6.3 ish, keeping my medium EC levels rather low but i guess im the only one.

there is no need to adjust "if necessary" with any dangerous products

666

 

[mad librettist]

To lime or not to lime

tac, you make it sound so easy to test media runoff pH. easy, that is, until I factor in the hours I would have to put in to earn my pen.

 

[Scrogerman]

Its been A LONG time ago since ive seen that bag of lime, it was dolomite kind with 2x the cal to mag "not sure of the brand" got it from a small local nursery. small seed sized pieces.

count me out of this debate, ive put in my 2 cents, if my homemade peat based reused soil fed with EJ ever gets below 6 then I will start using a bit of lime again but after nearly 4 years it hasn't happened yet, with those 2 items you would think it would be pretty darn acidic but it ain't yet.

it just seems funny to me that most of us do all these funky methods when growing organic but dont take the small amount of time to check what your mediums PH is at least once a month ?

ive def found a sweet spot around 6.3 ish, keeping my medium EC levels rather low but i guess im the only one.

there is no need to adjust "if necessary" with any dangerous products

666

No debate Tac, im just scouting advice mate.
That many people do many different things that all work, i think its all about finding your own mix, that you & your plants are happy with, you've found yours by the looks of it & im still looking for mine, soil ph & buffering is just something im still getting my head around. One thing ive learnt quickly was to make sure you test what your about to stick your plants in, your gonna know if it needs ammending then, as jayK corrected himself saying, peat based stuff needs lime, real soil & humus does not, correct me if im wrong jay please!
Not into dangerous products myself.

Cheers!

 

[Scrappy4]

Tactical Farmer, thanks for the contribution. I know you take a lot of heat for stating your methods, I just want you to know, it is appreciated. I have had similar problems as you, and using less lime seems to be working for me. My hope with this thread was to help others in similar situations, but then mentioning ph pens seems to be a thread killer, or a reason to ridicule. My apologies.......scrappy

 

[mad librettist]

but then mentioning ph pens seems to be a thread killer

...it is the organic forum...

 

[BongRipkenJR.]

I am not too familiar with dolomite lime, but could the PH drift be to the breakdown of the organic materials? Probably shouldn't worry too much.

I do know that my buddy used some dolomite as a top dressing on a couple outdoor Jack Herer plants and none on the rest of his plants. He had a Jack that didn't have lime as well. The taste and smell of the jack was by far better than everything else and it yielded more as well. The jack was tested at a little over %18 THC. The jack that didnt get it was great, but not as strong of a plant I was told.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

lime is a great fert for long term cal & mag delivery but it will put your ph out of the optimum range for alot of mediums, pure peat mix then heck ya better add some.

molasses gets the same job done for cal & mag plus iron, potassium (K) & helps the herd without any ph shifts.

can't fix a lime issue once your planted, your stuck fighting it down if you made a mistake with it the whole grow.

im not saying dont use it, im just saying check first to see if you do need it.

the medium is alot more forgiving growing little plants vs. the extra month or two needed for large plants (indoors) also.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

tac, you make it sound so easy to test media runoff pH. easy, that is, until I factor in the hours I would have to put in to earn my pen.

what ya mean, earn as in buy or earn as in learn ?

 

[mad librettist]

To lime or not to lime

what ya mean, earn as in buy or earn as in learn ?

earn as in buy. I thought a pen would be a great idea. then i saw what they cost, and I saved the budget for a microscope instead.

 

[Scrappy4]

earn as in buy. I thought a pen would be a great idea. then i saw what they cost, and I saved the budget for a microscope instead.

Why don't you start your own thread on this, instead of saying the same things over and over and over on this thread?