please help to save my sick plants

[plumbum]

hi, i am looking for help to identify what is wrong with my plants.. it seems i am fighting the same problem continuously for the last 6 month, it happens to every strain i bring in from different sources, or from clones taken by me.. Purple Kush, Sywalker, and now fire OG all showing same symptoms.. i was vegging with CNS17 before and now switched to Cutting Edge Solutions, but the problem doesn't go away.. clones look happy and then later on even before replanting all the sudden they start to look sick.. i've had some mold mites before, red soil mites (not sure if they were identified correctly) and spring tails.. all plants were thrown away, room was disinfected with bleach and i am starting from scratch.. no visible bugs on this vegging plants, there are few spring tails on mother plants that are in the same room.. i've added beneficial hypoaspis miles mites and i don't see any other bugs in the soil or on the plants.. there are some strange looking whitish spheres what might be egg on the bottom side of the leaves but they are so small.. size of thrichome and it might be part of the leaf .. hard to tell.. plants are in veg now and seems like they are getting worse every day.. i've sprayed them with Eagle 20 funguside, then Scorpion Juice, added some Aspirin tho the nutes.. nothing seems helping.. any idea?

please ask any questions - i filled the questionnaire.. hopefully it would help to identify the problem!

Thank you!

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coco/perlite mix

How long has this problem been going on? - last 6 month

What STRAIN are you growing? - fire OG

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) - clone

What is the age of your plants? - 6 weeks

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? - 1 week repoted to #3 Smart Pot, before 3 weeks in smaller coco conteiners

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? - rockwool

How Tall are the plants? - 1 foot

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? - veg

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) - scrog

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) - 3 Gal Smart Pot

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) - canna coco + perlite 60%/40%

What brand Nutrient's are you using? CNS17, but just switched to 3 part Cutting Edge Solutions hoping changing nutes might help

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* - Micro 4ml/G, Bloom 4ml/G, Grow 8ml/G, Plant Amp 10 ml/G, Jncle John's blend 10 ml/G, Mag Amp 2.5 ml/g, Liquid Karma 5ml/G, Silica Blast 3 ml/G

How often are you feeding? - every day

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? - usually - 2nd week in flower

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) - Micro, Bloom, Grow, PA, UJB, LKarma, Silica Blast (mixed with water)

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? - 1180ppm/1.85 EC

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? - not sure

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? - every couple of days, Plant Amp because of organic acids brings ph down to 4.5 and then it's gradually goes up.. no ph down per nut manufacturer's recommendation

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? - oakton PH pen

How often are you watering? - every other day.. soon to be every day

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? - yesterday

What size bulb are you using? - 600W MH Sunmaster Cool Delux

How old is your bulbs? - 6 to 9 month

What is the distance to the canopy? - 3 feet

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) - 63%

What is the canopy temperature? - 72F

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) - 72F - 62F = 10F

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) - passive intake, 6" Ellicent Fan is out- take, dialed down around 50%, since it's called out

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? - exhaust running constantly, controlled with dimmer

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? - yes

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? - yes

Is your water HARD or SOFT? - filtered through smail boy, 40 ppm

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? - tap, filtered

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) - 200ppm

If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen) -N/A

Are you using water from a water softener? - No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? - No

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? - None

Are plant's infected with pest's? - None visible, added Hypoaspis miles beneficiary mites for prevention

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[PoopyTeaBags]

those little circled dots look like mite eggs....

i couldnt find your ph up there maybe i missed it...


1180 may be alittle high for such a small plant but im not use to your nutes so i could be wrong....

 

[plumbum]

PoopyTeaBags thanks for stopping by.. i didn't add ph up since manufacture doesn't recommend it with Plant Amp ( it has organic acid, it will come up in few days ), but i had same symptoms with CNS17 at ph 6.0.. i don't think it's ph related.. as far as eggs goes - they are much smaller then spider mite eggs.. i've seen plenty of them before.. and i see no spider mites.. this picture is taken through 30x microscope

 

[plumbum]

the reason i went with such a high ppm is because i was replanting to new coco.. i was hoping it would be able to pre-charge coco with all necessary elements and make everything readily available.. the plant shows no signs of burning..
anybody else has an opinion?

 

[Tr33]

Nutrient lockout from your cold temps and pH,
that's what is causing the yellowing.
Up your temps to 78-68

You need to make sure your water is @ pH 6.4 before you water them.

then your plants will be happy again.

72F is way to cold for growth
and along with pH will cause this problem.

no need for nutes.

one of the tell tale signs to low temp and pH is the
thick plastic looking leaves, with the curling starting on the edges
and the veins over exaggerating the shape of the leaves.
def pH and temps
empirical experience typing...

 

[plumbum]

Tr33 thank you so much for your advice.. i will get temperatures higher.. hopefully it will help.. problems started when the temperature was in more favorable range.. it got cold here just last few days.. but they sure did started to look worth.. what do you mean - no need for nutes.. just irrigate with straight water at ph 6.4?

 

[plumbum]

here is another picture .. it's somewhat different looking kind of leaf abnormality.. trying to figure out what might be the cause? it's started before it became colder here..

 

[plumbum]

and here is the shot through 30x microscope of top of the another leaf.. what i thought might be eggs.. looks like part of the leaf structure, but it's changing it's look and becomes milky white instead of clear.. i wonder if i have some kind of pathogen or virus spreading?

 

[Stress_test]

Nutrient lockout from your cold temps and pH,
that's what is causing the yellowing.
Up your temps to 78-68

You need to make sure your water is @ pH 6.4 before you water them.

then your plants will be happy again.

72F is way to cold for growth
and along with pH will cause this problem.

no need for nutes.

one of the tell tale signs to low temp and pH is the
thick plastic looking leaves, with the curling starting on the edges
and the veins over exaggerating the shape of the leaves.
def pH and temps
empirical experience typing...

Yep.
.

 

[Hemp_Star]

ya..too cold for sure. u said u feed every day. take one plant and over water it with plain water at 6.3 till u can drain the run off in a cup and test it. then u will know for sure what going on in the roots. it doesn't look like eggs to me....too uniform in a pattern like array. looks like zits on my ass. the damage looks like fungus. ph is off i would say. the edges are curling up like mg deficiency. i would test one and prob flush them all after to be safe...

 

[buddah]

Tr33 is right...watch the ph

and dont overwater and overfeed them...give them a break..!!

 

[Leroy Brown]

WOW, The 1st pic of the white things, looks EXACTLY like what I had once my plants rebounded after I almost killed them with sodium.

3' is pretty far for a 600, my reflectors don't have glass & I've been keeping mine around 12-14" & they have been loving it, that will help raise the temps but only during lights on.

I thought the same thing as everyone else when I read your form- 'my that's a lot of food'

 

[bobman]

here is another picture .. it's somewhat different looking kind of leaf abnormality.. trying to figure out what might be the cause? it's started before it became colder here..

In my experience a waxy leaf like that means to much food or over feeding. As far as everything else I do not want to speculate because I have never grown in coco but it seems like you have thrown a lot at them as far as food, additives and spraying. That lighter new growth is probably from night time temps. Overall they do not look bad from the pictures. But i would take some variables away and give them some time to adjust before introducing anything new. Also you may want to mix your nutes a day before then adjust. Gh has some buffers in there and it takes 12-24 hours for them to work. They can move from .3-.5 after 12 to 24 hours.

 

[plumbum]

thanks a lot to everybody for advice!!! it's always great to hear from experienced growers.. i've raised the temperatures to 78/68 and will try to do a flush at higher ph tonight to bring medium back to balance.. i will post some pictures and share my progress..

 

[Tr33]

the waxy leaf is actually from the cold temps
the other pic I really can't tell unless I see the whole leaf,
and whole plant.
but it really look like pH induced burning IMHO.
just the beginning, when it gets worse the leaf starts to yellow,
with spotting from pH burns.

 

[devilsharvest66]

question is there a lino floor under that.. lino floors cause a off gas that mess up your plants its best to remove flooring like that.. just a thought

 

[plumbum]

i am glad to let you guys know that plants are looking better.. i give them a flush at ph 6.4 with low ppm and enzymes.. it seems that problem was identified correct and raising temperatures and adjusting ph did the trick.. i'd like to go back to using Plant Amp from Cutting Edge Solutions (which drop ph down for few days), but not sure if plants are ready for it yet.. though since the temperatures up it might not be a problem.. i will have to do a test..

Tr33 thank you, i will try to get more pictures posted so it would be easier to figure out what is wrong..

devilsharvest66, no this is not lino, it's botanicare white tray..

 

[Stress_test]

question is there a lino floor under that.. lino floors cause a off gas that mess up your plants its best to remove flooring like that.. just a thought

You know I have heard about off gassing from vinyl and linoleum, but I ain't sure that I believe it.
I mean sure for a month right after it's installed, but a hospital or commercial grade floor it about as good as it gets in an indoor garden.
About the only thing better would be concrete. But then only if it has been epoxy sealed and I know for a fact that epoxy based painted are toxic and off gas for months and even years in basements and areas with low air flow.
I know that I paid about 2 buck per sq ft for the hospital grade linoleum tiles I put in mine, and I am glad I did. I wouldn't trade it for concrete. IN FACT I would put this tile over a concrete floor if I had a choice.

i am glad to let you guys know that plants are looking better.. i give them a flush at ph 6.4 with low ppm and enzymes.. it seems that problem was identified correct and raising temperatures and adjusting ph did the trick.. i'd like to go back to using Plant Amp from Cutting Edge Solutions (which drop ph down for few days), but not sure if plants are ready for it yet.. though since the temperatures up it might not be a problem.. i will have to do a test..

Tr33 thank you, i will try to get more pictures posted so it would be easier to figure out what is wrong..

devilsharvest66, no this is not lino, it's botanicare white tray..

Cool man that's good to hear. Glad we were able to help.