Tea Article

[Clackamas Coot]

CT Guy and MicrobeMan

Are any of the following problematic if applied to a live soil?

Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate and Citric Acid

Thanks for any help!

CC

 

[C21H30O2]

soft rock phosphate, pyrophylitte

wut about glacial rock dust or azomite?

 

[spurr]

that got me wishing i knew some pasture-grazed dairy cows

I know some personally [but not intimately]

Come on now MM, tell the truth, it gets lonely up there in Canada, no?!

 

[spurr]

CT Guy and MicrobeMan

Are any of the following problematic if applied to a live soil?

Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate and Citric Acid

Thanks for any help!

CC

I can't speak to the first two, but that last one, citric acid, is already in live soil from root exudation and from microbes, too. Using citric acid is fine, as long as you don't use a ton.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I can't speak to the first two, but that last one, citric acid, is already in live soil from root exudation and from microbes, too. Using citric acid is fine, as long as you don't use a ton.

Spurr

One, two or all three are widely used in bottled aloe vera products as well as many of the liquid yucca extracts (like T & J Enterprises).

The amounts in the product is very small and the actual amount that you use for a soil application is 2 oz. to 1 gallon of water. Something like that.

I can go and get the bottle and give the specific amounts in the aloe vera juice.

Thanks!

CC

 

[Microbeman]

I dunno

 

[greenmatter]

read through this whole thread over the last couple nights. GREAT THREAD. been doing the tea thing for years. after reading this i realize how little i knew. you guys feel free to school me anytime. actually ran the math and got a big enough pump for the first time ever. now i really understand what the A in ACT means. what worked before should kick ass now. any of you guys make it to denver i'll gladly buy you a beer. you are all gurus in your own right and i can't say thank you too many times for your willingness to share what you know.

question: would it help to use compost teas (not vermi tea) as a soak for the fiber (paper, cardboard, coco and such) i add to my worm bins. could this actually expand the biological diversity in my castings, or is this a waste of time? are there any fungi that i want to keep out of my bins ?

 

[catcherintheye]

hey guys thanks for your responses! been busy with school. Gona go by orange county farm supply, can I say somebody sent me coot? Brewing a fungal tea right now. Armstrong only had fish hydrolysate/kelp from neptunes harvest so i had to use that. used 2 ml of that, 2 ml of growmore kelp and a teaspoon of molassess is about 2 gallons of dechlorinated tap with a half cup of EWC, smells fishy. should i expect the smell to reduce or go away or will the fish smell stay? its crazy how the fish
oils seprate when added to water.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

I did a little experiment with my tea by adding everything in Microbemans standard ratios except I left out the fish hydrolysate. After adding about 6 Tbs of molassas the tea (5 gal) began foaming after a couple hours. I then added the hydrolysate and it obliterated all foam. No foam appeared over the cycle of about 24 hours. Before I aquired the fish hydrolysate, I always had a lot of foam. Im wondering what the foam is, and what this is telling us possibly with regard to microbemans observations and recomendation to apply fish seperate from the tea?

peace

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I did a little experiment with my tea by adding everything in Microbemans standard ratios except I left out the fish hydrolysate. After adding about 6 Tbs of molassas the tea (5 gal) began foaming after a couple hours. I then added the hydrolysate and it obliterated all foam. No foam appeared over the cycle of about 24 hours. Before I aquired the fish hydrolysate, I always had a lot of foam. Im wondering what the foam is, and what this is telling us possibly with regard to microbemans observations and recomendation to apply fish seperate from the tea?

peace

Smoke Buddy

I haven't looked at MM's ratios in a while but if I remember correctly he recommends using alfalfa meal which is a good suggestion/product to use. It is a plant material that contains high levels of saponins.

Saponins are plant compounds which cause foaming and is used in shampoos, toothpaste, root beer, mouthwash, etc.

In the list of the 3 plant products that I use of which saponin content is 'a consideration' (but certainly not the only one) are these plants in this order based solely on this one compound:

1. Yucca Extract
2. Alfalfa meal
3. Aloe Vera Juice

HTH

CC

 

[catcherintheye]

so what about about the bubbles coot? do they matter? i just used fish hydro and it literally kills bubbles. the aerated tap produced standing bubbles until fish hydro was added.

is yucca aloe or falfa better since those produce bubbles in ur tea? bubbles dont ensure active biology right? from what im understanding the bubbles seem like a pointless thing. I always thought it was a good sign of active biology, respiration from the beasties or something.

 

[schwagg]

i never get foam. i do notice that when i add a small amount of fish hydro it seems to smooth out anything bubbling up. and the smell fades to a nice tea/earth smell when it's finished. saving my cash for a scope!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

so what about about the bubbles coot? do they matter? i just used fish hydro and it literally kills bubbles. the aerated tap produced standing bubbles until fish hydro was added.

is yucca aloe or falfa better since those produce bubbles in ur tea? bubbles dont ensure active biology right? from what im understanding the bubbles seem like a pointless thing. I always thought it was a good sign of active biology, respiration from the beasties or something.

Those questions are way above my pay grade. I was just pointing out that all 3 items are recommended in 'Teaming With Microbes' as a fungi food and that by adding any of these you'll be introducing high levels of saponins which will result in increased foaming. Especially using liquid yucca extract or the dried powder versions.

Pretty overwhelming actually.

CC

 

[Microbeman]

I did a little experiment with my tea by adding everything in Microbemans standard ratios except I left out the fish hydrolysate. After adding about 6 Tbs of molassas the tea (5 gal) began foaming after a couple hours. I then added the hydrolysate and it obliterated all foam. No foam appeared over the cycle of about 24 hours. Before I aquired the fish hydrolysate, I always had a lot of foam. Im wondering what the foam is, and what this is telling us possibly with regard to microbemans observations and recomendation to apply fish seperate from the tea?

peace

It just keeps the foam down because of the fish oils. I observe the same all the time. Fish hydrolysate is good to use in the amounts I prescribed as long as you include it near the beginning of the brew. It is only a finished brew you need to be concerned about.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

It just keeps the foam down because of the fish oils. I observe the same all the time. Fish hydrolysate is good to use in the amounts I prescribed as long as you include it near the beginning of the brew. It is only a finished brew you need to be concerned about.

Ahh! Thanks for clearing that up. I will continue using the fish h. in the tea recipe then. I knew it couldnt be too bad the way my plants love the tea recipe you have shared!

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Smoke Buddy

I haven't looked at MM's ratios in a while but if I remember correctly he recommends using alfalfa meal which is a good suggestion/product to use. It is a plant material that contains high levels of saponins.

Saponins are plant compounds which cause foaming and is used in shampoos, toothpaste, root beer, mouthwash, etc.

In the list of the 3 plant products that I use of which saponin content is 'a consideration' (but certainly not the only one) are these plants in this order based solely on this one compound:

1. Yucca Extract
2. Alfalfa meal
3. Aloe Vera Juice

HTH

CC

Hi Clackamas Coot

Thanks for the info. I am learning alot in this thread! A friend of mine keeps telling me to get some alfalfa meal and rock dust.. Im still wet behind the ears tea-wise. Should these go into my tea or my medium mix..., or, my compost? I was refering to the ratios in MMs tea recipe from this quote:

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

 

[catcherintheye]

does Anyone find a brew using saponin rich products instead of FH better? any different. Im talking brews using either/or for a good fungal food. either FH or a saponin source.

I would do my own tests but without a microscrope, they would be completely based on my plants reactions.

IM not too big a fan of the FH. it Smells and results arent too pleasing and i really do not notice much of a difference from before I used it, if any difference its negative, maybe i used the product wrong.

To be fair, i applied the FH tea this morning so i should wait to see the plants reaction over a few days. I did however use 2 ml of fish hydro per gallon about 3 days ago on my plant in a 15 gal pot which fills a 2x2 scrog and she didnt like it very much and shes huge and hungry, I used such a minimal amount and still had a tiny bit of burn on a few leaves in one corner of the plant, which is bizarre.

So far the fish hydro is 1 and 0, wish i didnt buy it as i could find a more organic, forgiving plant based source of food for my funguys.

The tea i fed this morning still smelled half as fishy as it did when it started. tomorrow night it will be 48 hours. hopefully all stink will be gone. she gets another drink tomorrow morning.

The negative effects probably came from my stupid ass giving em a feeding of that 2ml, i should have brewed the stuff to feed the bennies so they take care of my plant as opposed to me trying to feed my plant with it directly. im noob. damnit. im noob.

And thanks clack. could you at least let me know your preference, fishwater or saponins?

 

[Stankie]

Should these go into my tea or my medium mix..., or, my compost?

All 3!!

 

[mad librettist]

Tea Article

as MM pointed out, fish hydro acts as a surfactant, which kills the foam. the oils your skin make will do the same. to test it out, rub your nose with a finger and dip it into a glass of beer with too much head.

 

[catcherintheye]

been doing a few drops of fish h and the brews look completely different than my previous brews, theres always stuff visibly growing in my tea now, it looks like fungal algae and strands of random things attached to pieces of the compost. It takes about 2 days for the tea for finish from what i put it. i stay around MMs ratios, they work really well.

The plant likes the tea with FH, but on its own the results werent very good. I wouldnt ever use it unless its brewed.