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Dazed and Confused Over Medical Marijuana Use

Midnight

Member
Veteran
Story from http://www.achrnews.com/Articles/Cover_Story/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000990738

It is no surprise that the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) is not a fan of medical marijuana, which has now been legalized in 15 states and the District of Columbia (see sidebar on page 19). According to the DEA, the campaign to allow marijuana to be used as medicine is a tactical maneuver in an overall strategy to completely legalize all drugs.

Whether or not that is a correct assessment may be up for debate, but the fact remains that thousands of employed Americans can now use marijuana legally in order to treat various maladies from glaucoma to nausea to cancer. For employers, this can raise serious questions, especially when many workplaces have zero-tolerance drug policies in place.

Contractors in particular have a right to be concerned, as marijuana use negatively affects the many skills required for work-related activities, including safe driving. According to DEA, alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time can all be diminished up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana, and marijuana use can also make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and signs on the road. Considering that technicians regularly drive company vehicles to work sites that involve high-pressure refrigerants and gas lines, lingering effects of marijuana use may result in threats to safety.

Contractors who wish to terminate the employment of someone who uses medical marijuana may have to tread carefully, as in some states it remains unclear as to whether or not employers must accommodate employees who have legal prescriptions. It is definitely a legal gray area, with employers being left to wonder how they can enforce their drug policies without being slapped with discrimination lawsuits from affected workers.


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So what is a contractor to do if an employee discloses that he has a medical marijuana prescription and plans to use the drug outside of work? You can fire him, said Brooke Duncan III, attorney, Adams and Reese LLP, New Orleans, La. “If I’m advising an employer, I would say don’t let that person work, especially not in a safety sensitive position. Is that going to free the contractor of all potential liability? Of course not. That’s the problem with this whole scenario.”

However, Duncan noted that contractors may have the law on their side at this point, as the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), which is the prime enforcer of laws against discrimination in the workplace, has not yet taken a position on medical marijuana. EEOC would most likely provide guidance in regard to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), which addresses employees using prescribed substances for medical conditions, and whether accommodation is required. And the California Supreme Court has chimed in, stating that it is not unlawful to fire an employee for using medical marijuana.

“There has been no guidance or regulation issued by the EEOC stating that medical marijuana use is protected conduct,” said Duncan. “And you don’t have to accommodate any employee under the ADA if to do so would cause harm to the individual or to other people. I don’t see the EEOC being anxious to jump into this fray and with good reason — it’s just fraught with all kinds of problems.”

For contractors, noted Duncan, the issue comes down to which lawsuit they would rather potentially face: the employment discrimination suit from the guy who’s smoking dope and wants to drive the company truck and potentially hurt people in the process, or the lawsuit resulting from that guy plowing the company truck into a van full of children returning from the church picnic.

“I’d choose the discrimination lawsuit,” said Duncan. “I would have no problem telling technicians who are using medical marijuana, ‘No, you can’t drive our trucks or hook up gas lines because that runs the unacceptable risk that you would harm yourself, a co-worker, a customer, or a member of the general public.’”


LINGERING EFFECTS

One of the reasons why marijuana use is of such concern in the workplace is that unlike other prescribed drugs that are flushed out of the body fairly quickly, marijuana can remain in detectable amounts in the system for up to five weeks after use. After five weeks of not using marijuana, it is highly unlikely that an employee would be considered impaired, however, it could still result in a positive drug test, which can be problematic if an accident occurs during that timeframe.

Another important consideration is that there is no standard regarding how much marijuana use results in impairment, which is why states have instituted varying — and somewhat arbitrary — cut-off levels. “With alcohol testing, there is an established link between blood alcohol content and how badly you blow a sobriety test. There is no universally accepted standard as to what constitutes impairment with marijuana,” said Duncan.

“You can have detectable amounts of marijuana in your system weeks after the last time you used it, even though it is unlikely there is any impairment at that point. That’s really the biggest dilemma for employers: There is no protection from liability if a person is using medicinal marijuana and is impaired or allegedly impaired because, once you find out a guy has been smoking marijuana, even by prescription, if he has an accident, that becomes a factor in litigation.”

That scenario is of particular concern to Rich Imfeld, president, IC Refrigeration, Ceres, Calif. “The state tells us what the alleged acceptable amounts of THC [tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active ingredient] are, but those are set up by some arbitrary person who says this is the amount acceptable for a person who is under medical marijuana versus someone who is just a stoner. I fail to see how that works.”

Imfeld recently had an experience with an employee who disclosed he had a prescription for medical marijuana after being hired and passing a drug test (this employee no longer works for the company for unrelated reasons). As a result, Imfeld lives “in abject fear” as to what could happen if another employee obtains a prescription. “If an employee has a medical amount of marijuana in his system and runs over a person in the company truck, the victim’s family is going to look at me. As a business owner, I am perceived as having deep pockets, and they’re going to come after me.”

Travis Smith, owner/general manager, Sky Heating and Air Conditioning, Portland, Ore., is also concerned about the medical marijuana law, although he has not yet had any employees admit to having a prescription. “If an employee got a card [for prescription use], who knows if we would ever even know? We have a drug policy in place that states no drugs on the company premises or in the company vehicles, and I just don’t see how allowing medical marijuana is a workable policy. Technicians are running exhaust venting and working with gas lines, both of which can be fatal; they’re lifting heavy equipment and machinery and driving trucks all day long. They’re not just sitting in the office where they can’t cause physical harm to other people.”

If one of Smith’s employees ever did admit to having a prescription for medical marijuana, he would let him go and take a chance on a discrimination lawsuit. “We would just have to see how it plays out. Marijuana is still illegal under federal law [see sidebar above], so we’re going to side with the federal government on this issue. I think the state of Oregon may side with the employee, but at the Supreme Court level, I think they would side with the employer.”


THINKING AHEAD

While contractors doing business in states allowing medical marijuana should not panic, said Duncan, they should start thinking about how they would react to an employee who comes forward and says he is using medical marijuana. “Employers should ask themselves, ‘Is this person in a safety sensitive position? Do I wish to simply prohibit drug use completely and across the board in my workplace?’ Contractors can modify their existing zero-tolerance drug policies to allow for medical marijuana use by employees in non-safety-related positions, but I would suggest handling each situation as it arises with particular emphasis on safety.”

For potential new hires, Duncan recommends that contractors make job offers contingent upon answering questions about medical health after the offer is made. This last point is particularly important, because the ADA states that medically related questions cannot be asked before an offer of employment is made. If these questions are on the job application form, this would violate the ADA, since presumably an offer of employment has not been made at the point an application is filled out.

“The way it works under the ADA is you assess the person’s qualifications for the job, and if you make them an offer, then you can ask a range of medical questions, but you have to ask everyone — you can’t just select applicants in wheelchairs and ask what’s wrong with them,” said Duncan. “You have to direct your medical questions to everybody but only after you’ve made the offer. And you can make the offer contingent upon those answers.”

As to specific language to use with those who have been made an offer of employment, Duncan recommends the following: Do you have any medical condition that could interfere with or impair your ability to do the work for which you’re being hired? If they fail to reveal a medical marijuana card, and it comes up later, noted Duncan, then the employee has misrepresented himself in the application process and the offer of employment can be rescinded.

The key is to keep the medical questions as simple and to the point as possible, so as to limit intrusiveness and avoid areas that could smack of discrimination, said Duncan. “The classic example is being HIV positive, which has zero impact on a person’s ability to do their job. If you capture that information, then it’s really of no use to you in making a job-related decision. By asking only if the person has a medical condition that could possibly interfere with his ability to do the job, you’re limiting your questions to those conditions that would indeed have a direct bearing on work, and you’re excluding conditions that would not.”

Contractors should also be proactive in learning everything they can about the medical marijuana laws in their particular state, as they will vary from one state to another. The bottom line in all states, however, is that nobody has the right to come to work impaired, especially if their job poses a safety risk to others.

“This is a serious issue, and because of the type of work they do, HVAC contractors are especially susceptible to the unintended consequences that can come from legalizing marijuana even on a limited basis,” said Duncan. “But in dealing with employees who have a legal prescription for medical marijuana, contractors must continually ask themselves, ‘Which lawsuit do I want to defend? The marijuana medical card lawsuit? Or the terrible automobile accident on the interstate?’ I think the answer is pretty clear.”


Sidebar: Testing, Unions

Some unions oppose drug testing in the workplace, which is why contractors running union shops may shy away from requiring drug testing for employees. Attorney Brooke Duncan noted that there is no reason why contractors cannot pursue mandatory drug testing when a contract comes up for negotiation.

“For those in a union shop, when the contract comes up for renewal, make a proposal to the union that includes drug testing,” said Duncan. “You can’t unilaterally impose drug testing, as that would be a violation of federal labor law, but you can propose it.”

When renegotiating the contract, contractors would be correct in stating to union officials that customers prefer knowing that technicians are drug-free. In addition, if the contractor is engaged in federal work, the Drug-Free Workplace Act requires some contractors to agree that they will provide a drug-free workplace as a precondition to receiving a contract from a federal agency. In fact, large commercial customers often require all their vendors who come on-site to certify their employees have tested drug-free. Contractors can make drug testing more palatable by offering an inducement elsewhere in the contract — such as a small raise in the technicians’ hourly rate — should the union agree to the change.

“Even in union shops, an employer is free to — and should consider — proposing the inclusion of drug testing to a union in contract negotiations,” said Duncan. “I would include language that would allow drug testing in all forms: pre-employment, random, post-accident, and reasonable suspicion. Just because you have it in a union contract doesn’t mean you have to do it, but it’s there if you need it. It is also necessary to look at state law, because some states don’t allow random testing except for certain kinds of positions.”

For those contractors just starting a relationship with the union, remember that the first contract is just a blank piece of paper. “As the employer, contractors are obligated only to negotiate — they don’t have to give in to the union at all, and they can make whatever proposals they want,” said Duncan.

This includes adding drug testing to the contract, which may be a smart move for every contractor in a union shop to consider.


Sidebar: State Laws

Fifteen states and Washington, D.C., have enacted laws that legalize medical marijuana. These include the following, along with the date when medical marijuana was legalized:

Alaska (1998)

Arizona (2010)

California (1996)

Colorado (2000)

Hawaii (2000)

Maine (1999)

Michigan (2008)

Montana (2004)

Nevada (2000)

New Jersey (2010)

New Mexico (2007)

Oregon (1998)

Rhode Island (2006)

Vermont (2004)

Washington (1998)

Washington, D.C. (2010)


Sidebar: Conflicting Information

Under federal law, it is illegal to grow, sell, purchase, or use marijuana, even for health-related reasons, which is why the following statement made by the Department of Justice in October 2009 came as a bit of a shock to some: The prosecution of significant traffickers of illegal drugs, including marijuana, and the disruption of illegal drug manufacturing and trafficking networks continues to be a core priority in the department’s efforts against narcotics and dangerous drugs, and the department’s investigative and prosecutorial resources should be directed towards these objectives. As a general matter, pursuit of these priorities should not focus federal resources in your states on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana.

For example, prosecution of individuals with cancer or other serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law, or those caregivers in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law who provide such individuals with marijuana, is unlikely to be an efficient use of limited federal resources. On the other hand, prosecution of commercial enterprises that unlawfully market and sell marijuana for profit continues to be an enforcement priority of the department.

After the Department of Justice issued this statement, which essentially means that they will not prosecute those involved with the medical marijuana trade, the Department of Transportation came out with a statement telling employees to basically disregard that notice:

Recently, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued guidelines for federal prosecutors in states that have enacted laws authorizing the use of “medical marijuana” (www.justice.gov/opa/documents/medicalmarijuana.pdf.) We have had several inquiries about whether the DOJ advice to federal prosecutors regarding pursuing criminal cases will have an impact upon the Department of Transportation’s long-standing regulation about the use of marijuana by safety sensitive transportation employees — pilots, school bus drivers, truck drivers, train engineers, subway operators, among others.

We want to make it perfectly clear that the DOJ guidelines will have no bearing on the Department of Transportation’s regulated drug testing program. We will not change our regulated drug testing program based upon these guidelines to federal prosecutors.

The Department of Transportation’s Drug and Alcohol Testing Regulation — 49 CFR Part 40, at 40.151(e) — does not authorize “medical marijuana” under a state law to be a valid medical explanation for a transportation employee’s positive drug test result.

Given the conflicting views regarding medical marijuana at the federal level, including the silence on the matter from the EEOC and the ADA, it is no wonder that there is confusion at the state level about how to handle the issue. It is safe to assume that someday in the future, rules will be devised regarding how to handle employees who utilize medical marijuana, but until then, employers will continue to cross their fingers and hope they are making the right decisions in this legal gray area.

Publication date: 02/07/2011
 
Z

zen_trikester

Story from http://www.achrnews.com/Articles/Cover_Story/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000990738

According to DEA, alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time can all be diminished up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana,

LINGERING EFFECTS

One of the reasons why marijuana use is of such concern in the workplace is that unlike other prescribed drugs that are flushed out of the body fairly quickly, marijuana can remain in detectable amounts in the system for up to five weeks after use. After five weeks of not using marijuana, it is highly unlikely that an employee would be considered impaired, however, it could still result in a positive drug test, which can be problematic if an accident occurs during that timeframe.

Wow... this Duncan guy is really sucking some DEA pole ehh? He, and every other person on the planet who knows anything about mj knows that to even propose that marijuana intoxication continues more than a few hours is a ridicules lie! Duh, " it is highly unlikely that an employee would be considered impaired" how about fucking impossible?

What a fucking joke... This Duncan guy is from New Orleans... (Brooke Duncan III, attorney, Adams and Reese LLP, New Orleans, La) didn't know Louisiana had mmj...

Maybe this is what earned him the clout to be in this article "Prior to becoming a lawyer, he gained practical business and management experience by running a factory that produced industrial fabric products. Brooke also served as a detective with the New Orleans Police Department, receiving several awards for outstanding duty."

I just hate this shit!
 

RoomRaider

Member
Wow... this Duncan guy is really sucking some DEA pole ehh? He, and every other person on the planet who knows anything about mj knows that to even propose that marijuana intoxication continues more than a few hours is a ridicules lie! Duh, " it is highly unlikely that an employee would be considered impaired" how about fucking impossible?

Edibles can last ~5 hours. Some bud can last a good 3 hours.

I think what the guy was trying to say is that if an accident were to happen you could not tell if he was stoned then and there, or if he was completely sober.

Gotta be careful with the choice of herb, cuz some can leave you spacey, others leave you tired and in need of a good catnap, etc.

I'm a better driver stoned than sober, but when doing work while lifted past the skies, mistakes can happen if you lose focus.

Don't get me wrong, luv working blazed, but i've caught myself losing focus and having those "stoner moments"

The solution to the problem should already be here, heard saliva can be tested to see if the person is actually stoned or not, like a breathlyzer. If its accurate, problem solved.
 

softyellowlight

Active member
‘Which lawsuit do I want to defend? The marijuana medical card lawsuit? Or the terrible automobile accident on the interstate?’

This false dichotomy is so offensive that it makes me want to vomit. The entire basis anyone has for declaring average recreational or medical marijuana usage as remotely dangerous are falsified DEA studies (opting out from actually using scientific method.)
 

Duckslayer

Member
The powers that be do not want to see any kind of test developed that will measure whether a person is actually under the influence of mj or not. As long as that test is not available they are left open to make outrageous claims such as the one in this article. Still impaired 24 hrs after use; are you kidding me? I've been smoking for over 35 years and I have smoked some of the best weed out there. I have never still been under the influence 10 hrs after my last puff, much less 24, even after a night of heavy smoking I wake up bright eyed.
Of course the DEA is going to make outrageous claims like these. They are just trying to justify their reason for existing. If not for marijuana busts they would have very little to do. They like all law enforcement agencies seem to prefer busting peaceful pot smokers/growers to the potentially violent element of "hard" drugs. For the most part we are an easy target. When found we generally go peacefully because by and large we are law abiding citizens if not for bullshit marijuana prohibition laws.
I am convinced that the technology is out there to develop some sort of test similar in use as the breathalizer for alcohol. I am also convinced that law enforcement and many politicians do not want to see such a test come to pass. If such a test was developed it would take away one of their bedrock arguments against ending marijuana prohibition. If I've heard it once I've heard it a million times, "The problem is there's no way to know if someone smoked an hour ago or last week."
 
Z

zen_trikester

The powers that be do not want to see any kind of test developed that will measure whether a person is actually under the influence of mj or not. As long as that test is not available they are left open to make outrageous claims such as the one in this article. Still impaired 24 hrs after use; are you kidding me? I've been smoking for over 35 years and I have smoked some of the best weed out there. I have never still been under the influence 10 hrs after my last puff, much less 24, even after a night of heavy smoking I wake up bright eyed.
Of course the DEA is going to make outrageous claims like these. They are just trying to justify their reason for existing. If not for marijuana busts they would have very little to do. They like all law enforcement agencies seem to prefer busting peaceful pot smokers/growers to the potentially violent element of "hard" drugs. For the most part we are an easy target. When found we generally go peacefully because by and large we are law abiding citizens if not for bullshit marijuana prohibition laws.
I am convinced that the technology is out there to develop some sort of test similar in use as the breathalizer for alcohol. I am also convinced that law enforcement and many politicians do not want to see such a test come to pass. If such a test was developed it would take away one of their bedrock arguments against ending marijuana prohibition. If I've heard it once I've heard it a million times, "The problem is there's no way to know if someone smoked an hour ago or last week."

I agree... The technology is out there for sure. Philips developed a "breathalizer" for drug impairment based on saliva samples a couple years ago. They use a technology called "magnotech" technology which allows for a very short window of use and would likely be able to show actual impairment or atleast be close enough to say if somebody had smoked within the past few hours.

I was getting updates on this device from Philips and then all of the sudden their partner on it (Concateno) was bought out by an American company who is really big into drug testing, urine mostly, and the whole project got shelved. Totally something fishy about that! Concateno released something last November in Europe that is supposed to be able to fit the bill for the UK's desire to be able to show actual drug impairment during road tests but I have yet to hear of it's use, and I am unsure if this device uses the Philips Magnotech technology.

I've been saying for many years that the reason MJ is so hard to legalize is because there is no such device. The opposition to Cali's prop 19 pushed this issue by saying that employers would have no way to know if employees were stoned and cops would have no way to tell if motorists are stoned. This type of device is key for this movement and although I'm not the paranoid type, I do believe that this is being railroaded by the big opposition to mj legalization. During the whole prop 19 debate, I kept thinking that if it passed Philips and Concateno would be fools not to release the technology they have for these handhelds and they would be in the hands of every cop, school nurse and over protective mom in CA. If these actually work just think what they would sell for and how many peoplw would purchase them... milliuons of cops and employers, and schools across the country woul buy one. that is billions and billions in revenue for the company that brings something like this to market. Now, what force is big enough to make a company shelve a multi-billion dollar idea????? grrrrr
 

Midnight

Member
Veteran
Ok, this is fucked up to even have to say this but...

1. I grow.

2. I smoke.

3. I own a business (one where if you fuck up you WILL kill someone).

4. You test dirty, your ass is gone, no questions asked.

5. Why you may ask? Because it is my right and mine alone to jeopardize my lively hood!
 

Duckslayer

Member
As things stand now, I have no problem with your stance Midnight, but it just magnifies the point that I was trying to make. Just because someone tests positive for cannabis does not mean that they are under the influence at the time of testing with the tests that are currently being used. But as a business owner who assumes the liability should an employee hurt or kill someone, that is the only tool you have, so it is the one that you have to use. If a test was available that would actually tell you whether someone was actually "under the influence" then your options would be wider. That would make it possible for you to allow responsible employees who only smoked on their off time and did not come to work under the influence to work for you.
I realize that there are some potheads who show up for work stoned, baked, whatever you want to call it, but there are many of us who are responsible adults who never do so. A proper testing method would allow you, as an employer, to differentiate between the two.
I do not drink alcohol. I think that it is the most horrible, destructive drug on the planet. But as much as I hate that poison, I believe that users of that drug should be allowed to earn a living so long as they do not show up for work under the influence. There are a multitude of testing methods that an employer can use to help keep alcohol abuse in the workplace in check. If you only drink on your off days, or after work you will not lose your job. If I smoke a joint today on my day off, and you test me for drugs on Wednesday, FOUR DAYS LATER, I will lose my job. This is the kind of inequity that I believe needs to change. Someday................
 

Midnight

Member
Veteran
As things stand now, I have no problem with your stance Midnight, but it just magnifies the point that I was trying to make. Just because someone tests positive for cannabis does not mean that they are under the influence at the time of testing with the tests that are currently being used. But as a business owner who assumes the liability should an employee hurt or kill someone, that is the only tool you have, so it is the one that you have to use. If a test was available that would actually tell you whether someone was actually "under the influence" then your options would be wider. That would make it possible for you to allow responsible employees who only smoked on their off time and did not come to work under the influence to work for you.
I realize that there are some potheads who show up for work stoned, baked, whatever you want to call it, but there are many of us who are responsible adults who never do so. A proper testing method would allow you, as an employer, to differentiate between the two.
I do not drink alcohol. I think that it is the most horrible, destructive drug on the planet. But as much as I hate that poison, I believe that users of that drug should be allowed to earn a living so long as they do not show up for work under the influence. There are a multitude of testing methods that an employer can use to help keep alcohol abuse in the workplace in check. If you only drink on your off days, or after work you will not lose your job. If I smoke a joint today on my day off, and you test me for drugs on Wednesday, FOUR DAYS LATER, I will lose my job. This is the kind of inequity that I believe needs to change. Someday................

Yep, If there was a way to prove you were not under the influence while on the job then I say smoke til you drop. Until then, please do it on your own time. For the record, I NEVER work or drive while stoned.
 
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