Do we need run off in organics?

[Chronito]

HI everyone,

So as above when we water with an organic soil mix, should we be watering enough to get runoff everytime?

Its weird for me because ive never really had much runoff out of any of the containers i use (typically 4-5 gallon) but yet im always hearing about watering until you get a little bit of runoff. I also like the idea of PH testing our runoff but i cant cos i never get any!

The soil mix i use has a little bit of perlite in it (i dont add any extra) and its not the best draining. Ive noticed if i even slightly overwater, the plants do not react well and show symptoms of overwatering very quickly such as curled leaves etc.. This corrects itself in between waterings but nontheless still must stress the plant a little bit. I would be worried to water until runoff as this would undoubtedly overwater the plant and cause it stress.

Am i missing something here???

Another matter closely related to this is flushing. I recently overfertilised one of my babies with nitrogen (only very slightly) and so ive been educated to believe that flushing is a remedy here to flush excess salt buildup. It makes me shudder to think about pouring 10 gallons of water through my 5 gallons of not so well draining soil, and what it might do to my plants. I remember back a while ago one of my 5 gallons got severly overwatered (noob mistake) and it seriously weighed like a concrete block the rest of the grow.. it took weeks and weeks of minimal watering to get it back to a reasonable weight, but it never really returned to normal after one big overwater and yield suffered bigtime.

Someone please set me straight here this is one of those so-called simple topics that is confusing the heck out of me!

Chronito

EDIT: Oh shit just realised this should have been posted in organic soil section.. Wops my bad sorry mods! Can we get it moved possibly?

 

[supaleeb]

The idea behind flushing is to remove excess nutrient salts that build up over time from fertilizers. It's better done as preventative maintenance, rather than as a salt buildup remedy. Salts will naturally buildup, and will lead to major pH imbalances and nutrient lockout if it runs unchecked. Routinely flushing your soil, even when you're using all organics, is a good idea. Especially if you tend to routinely water in such a way that results in little runoff.

Also, you should add more perlite to your mix if you're running 5gal containers. It will help with drainage and soil compaction, making flushes less stressful on your plants.

So, to answer your question, no, runoff is not necessary, but occasional flushing usually is. Hope this helps.

 

[prince kali]

@ supaleeb.
Sorry but your answer is. .. simply wrong.
It is totally NOT a good idea to flush your plants regularly when doing organics. The microherd will be not amused at all.. And there is no negative buildup of salt when fertilising organics properly.

Whereas using enzymes from time to time is a good idea to keep your soil proper.


@Chronito
you dont need to flush in your case. Just stop feeding early enough.. And yes, the less perlite the better, as long as your drainage is good. Gotta adjust till satisfaction.

Better water little amounts more often than flooding them every now and again. You dont want any drain if you do that right.

Good luck
pK

 

[Midnight Tokar]

prince kali hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!

You shouldn't have salts in an organic grow.

 

[Chem&M]

I rarely see run-off and am thrilled with my results. I'd say I get it every 4-5 times or so.

 

[Hank Hemp]

I water in 5 gal buckets about a gallon and I generally see just a bit of runoff not a lot. And flush organics? WHY?

 

[Maj.PotHead]

why flush because of nitrites
i water to obtain 15-20% runoff i use pure blend pro ferts i start my preharvest flush with plain waterings 14 days before chop.


tis hard to get some strains to change color when fed organic ferts my chem4 dose n/p. chem4 is center row in pic
2 gal bags soil fox farm ocean forrst with prelite added 1 k hps horti bulb

heres a kicker for yall my 2 gal bags require almost 1 full gal water to achieve drainage, 8 plants in 12 in drainage pans give me back approx 2 gal water. so i use 11 gals water for 12 plants in 2 gal bags thats right 11 gal water every other day

 

[prince kali]

why flush because of nitrites
i water to obtain 15-20% runoff i use pure blend pro ferts i start my preharvest flush with plain waterings 14 days before chop.


tis hard to get some strains to change color when fed organic ferts my chem4 dose n/p. chem4 is center row in pic
2 gal bags soil fox farm ocean forrst with prelite added 1 k hps horti bulb

heres a kicker for yall my 2 gal bags require almost 1 full gal water to achieve drainage, 8 plants in 12 in drainage pans give me back approx 2 gal water. so i use 11 gals water for 12 plants in 2 gal bags thats right 11 gal water every other day

thats incerdible!! wow. your soil must be so compact.
i have never heard such thing. 1 gal water for a 2 gal pot??


but it looks nice what you do there..

to get rid of nitrites i use powerzyme and effective microorganism.
but i never go for drain..
you get 15-20% drain every watering?? or just when/after you flush??

your results look good

 

[trichrider]

whoops

 

[prince kali]

Edit: sorry for the slightly confused post.. Have been drinking last nite ;-)

 

[Hank Hemp]

I believe we have a bit of confusion going on. Y'll correct me if I'm wrong Maj. considers no nutes the last 2 weeks flushing. Prince like me says flushing is using a large amount of water to "flush" salts and ferts if you used chemical ferts. Am I anywhere near right? I say I don't flush my organics just stop giving them nutes the last 2 weeks. Plain water.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

HH, yea I think a lot of people use the term "flushing" wrong. IMO it's watering with 2-3 times the pot capacity with plain water. As you said not necessary with organics.
I do like you and just use plain water the last 2 weeks.

 

[Maj.PotHead]

{{I say I don't flush my organics just stop giving them nutes the last 2 weeks. Plain water.}}

excatly what i do plain water PH'[email protected] last 14 days

ive tried no runoff and wasnt happy, look through my gallery or grow logs you'll see


no my soil isnt compacted i add either 12 quart bag of black gold perlite or a small bag of large chunk fox farm perlite to the bag of FFOF. my plants grow roots lots of them i water slowly

this has been discused here a few times on weather to water for drainage or not w/organics.

some say yes
some say no need to


so my answer for the original poster question {So as above when we water with an organic soil mix, should we be watering enough to get runoff everytime?}

i say yes water to achieve some runoff
i prefer 15-20% runoff

and because of my choice my plants love it and reward me nicely

i only worrie about the water PH of 6.5 going into the plant never what the runoff PH is, FFOF is a great soil holds it's PH buffer nicely even with my watering.

some say yes
some say no need to
your choice

 

[B. Friendly]

not exactly,
kinda the opposite concept. when we run off with organic we are pushing out nutrients.

hard to get a proper water without a little run off tho

 

[prince kali]

not exactly,
kinda the opposite concept. when we run off with organic we are pushing out nutrients.

hard to get a proper water without a little run off tho

word.

 

[VerdantGreen]

you dont need runoff in organics, and when using large containers and organic soil watering till runoff might mean your soil is too wet.

same goes for flushing (as in leaching with large amounts of water) it doesnt do much to remove nutes in organic soil because the nutes arent in solution - and again can mean that your soil gets too wet.

there is an organic soil forum here too.

VG