Thoughts On Hydroponics and RDWC Systems

[MediMary]

I started clogging up heaths thread, so I thought I would make a discussion thread about rdwc systems.

Medi , I`m not sure there`s a way to do away with the airpump/heatpump in an undercurrent setup due to the way it`s built/setup to flow.....

See.....the pump`s setup "outside" the control bucket/epicenter , whatever the fuck they call it , and it "pulls" juice through the buckets slow as fuck IMO, and then pumps it back to the controller for somewhat of a waterfall effect , but with those bigass pvc drainpipes , it`d be hardta pump enough juice through the system without disturbing the rootzones while surely pushin roots straight into the drains for constant clogging.......

Smaller pvc pipe increases pressure and would recirculate far faster as in Heathies "souped up" Aquafarms he uses 1 1/2" drains on.....

I often thought about a recirculating setup that would blast juice through the system in 1 direction with 1 pump for X amount of hrs, and then that pump kicks off and another 1 kicks on ta pump juice in the "opposite" direction to train roots away from the drains and keep em from growing/flowing in 1 continuous direction FTW.....

I also thought that inside the bottom buckets could be "T"`s on the front and backside of the feed/drainlines to divert flow away from directly hitting the rootmass`s straight on , and create flow "around" the rootzones with a big enough pump to cause a swirling vortex of seriously oxygenated juice around the rootzones as it gets pushed on to the next container , so on and so forth.....

Smaller feed/drainlines= more increased pressure/faster flow.......Bigass pipe= less pressure/slower flow....My vertical rack rooms used 5200 gph "pond aerator" pumps with 13' head pressure to be ableta choke down the flow with control valves on all 4 levels so as to create "equal" flow and pressure to each individual plantsite/container regardless of which level they were on regardless of how close or how far away from the pump they were located...........

That "T" with an elbow inside my rez`s above the pumps helped as a bypass for such a bigass pump while blasting juice back down for that jetstream waterfall effect.......

Pretty sure your UC can`t be retro`d to do away with the heat blastin airpump Bro , cuz you`ve already got the waterfall return comin back to rez as juice gets pumped back through the buckets.....

Get rid of the shit and build a "Heathie" setup like Cyat`s killin it with.......I`m sure you can prolly get closeta what yas paid for the UC`s since they`re so popular with the kiddies.......

Peace....DHF.........

 

[MediMary]

The UC system

 

[MediMary]

We All know Heath is the Man! I am trying to better understand that masters techniques.

Heath speaking"

Ok here are a few of my plans which might give you a clue as to how the recycling system works, it is a very simple system. The first drawing shows the level in the grow bucket set by a external rez, this is useful if you want to drain your system as it simply drains to the rez by gravity.


And the second plan shows a system which is easier to set up as the liquid hight in the bucket is set by the return pipe from the rez, the system is slightly less versatile than the system above because you cannot change the liquid level in the tank and its a little more difficult to drain for cleaning etc but performance wise its identical.

 

[MediMary]

So in heaths modifided aqua farms, it had the inner and outer bucket, on heaths last build out he used this thing.






I notice he only drills holes in the bottom, Is this to prevent lateral root growth from floating over and clogging the pump??

Also does having the inside bucket closer to the wall/side where the drain is help prevent roots from growing into the drain? here the 4 gallon bucket is much further from the side with the drain, where as in the pictures of the aquafarms it looks to be super close(which seems like it would help prevent clogs)

 

[MediMary]

 

[MediMary]

in this picture you can better see what im talking about, the water farm inner bucket would sit closer to the drain than this system, does that big open spot allow roots more access to the piping?


what are technical name for those white fittings? I missed it somewhere.

 

[DHF]

Killer thread .....Those are bulkhead fittings specific to the UK/Euro market and not available in the US that I know of Medi.......plenty available here though......just different....

Heathie only runs holes in the bottoms of those containers because roots and holes out the sides would be above the floodline and form/cause "cordroots" that twist and spin , stealing plant energy and impeding nutrient uptake......

They form from survival instinct from bein outta water and exposed above the floodline in open air , and they get in drought mode to conserve juice instead of blastin it to upper foliage/budswellage.....

The souped up waterfarm/Aquafarms look like styrofoam coolers with a bucket in a bucket , but with "venturi" feed tubes ta topfeed/recirculate and Heathie set em up with 1 1/2" drains with a bigass pump and blasted feed in and out of em.......

Damn containers were like 2 1/2 gal maybe smaller , and Heath was growin 2 1/2-3 lber`s out of em.......that`s what got DD`s all hot and heavy after Heath back in the day...........

Anyways.....ask away.....not much I`ve not seen......

Peace....DHF.........

 

[MediMary]

i got hot and heavy too, then i saw the orange pipe flooded tube. Been stalking heath every sense. lol

 

[MediMary]

Hey billy, thank you for sharing and stopping in, I have some more questions on pipe size and flow but I gots to run for the second, will be back tonight or tom.

Thanks again dhf.

HI peeps,
RE pumps, I've tried a few submersibles now and what I've found is that pumps that give more head pressure tend to transfer more heat to the solution (only submersible pumps), so I use a low wattage pump that moves lots of water, the trick is to size supply pipes accordingly... A few warm res's led me back to my college books on pipe sizing... lol..
Externally fitted mag drive pumps should not transfer any real heat as the motor (coil) is not in the solution, but for me piping a pump externally is not simple enough...
A grower known as cabron has just built one of these systems and has his pump on a timer, cant remember what intervals but he's reached impressive DO levels.. I personally think NO timers should be used on pumps as it's introducing another point of failure risk.. timer sticks off and BIG probs are on their way..

Simple ways to get the DO required IMO are:
Waterfall effect in grow tub AND res,
Plenty of flow through pebbles using either full bore pipe or lots of drippers..
And Constantly running your Circulation pump.

It would be interesting to hear Heaths opinion on this but my minimum flow to each bucket would be 1000 lph... I suppose bigger buckets would require more flow... with enough flow and DO there should be NO dead spots in the system, ie areas with low DO, and root growths shows this to be true....

peace
BL

 

[DHF]

7 more posts and PM`s are open...........I was like WTF....2 threads ?.......

Heathie`s shit`s simple MM....Less is more......

I`ll be around...DHF.........

 

[MediMary]

I reported the other thread, hopefully mod will pull it down.

so this has nothing to do with RDWC.


Buts its funny as Hell.
Thought I would share.

 

[MediMary]

How not to grow dope!

How not to grow dope!

1. Decide while stoned to become a weed baron
2. Plant leftover bagseeds and go looking for lights
3. Try to steal neighbor's floodlights, burn fingers, go to plan B after healing up
4. Buy incandescent halogen lights at OfficeJerks cos they look real bright and one blacklight over at the head shop cos it's purpleyness is cool as fuck and makes the Jimi Hendrix velvet poster glow something wicked
5. 4 out of 72 seeds sprout, fuckin ace!
6. All 4 get stretchy, fall over and die
7. Put the black light a little closer to cheer it up
8. Smoked the dried out seedling, gave me a headache, so I planted some more bagseeds
9. Dug out Uncle Bob's marijuana grow book from 1972, marveled at nail-thru-stem technique for improving potency
10. 9 out of 147 sprout, fuckin ace!
11. Put a pound of nails in salty water to get em good and rusty
12. All 9 get stretchy, fall over and die
13. I figured they wasn't getting enough light, so I stole granny's big ole heat lamp and a couple of headlights from some passing cars (damn they're hard to grab at stoplights)
14. Planted more seeds, put more bullshit and a couple of dead fish in soil mix this time (hey it worked for the Indians and the Pilgrims)
15. Neighbours complained about the shitty fish smell, I told them to rack off, so they called the cops, who confiscated all the 'evidence.'
16. Saw story on Fox News about wicked intarwebs sites about marijuana growing warping kids brains, figured I wasn't warped enough
17. Found pot growing website, figured I'd do a big favor for all those newbie idiots who'd never planted a seed and show em how to do it
18. Typed Uncle Bob's entire 1972 Yippie Underground growbook into the pot growing website, waited for praises to flow in
19. No one said nothing, so I typed it in again IN ALL CAPS SO THEY COULD READ IT BETTER
20. Decided I'd hang around and learn something, there's this guy who says his friend's uncle's brother in law once knew a guy who grew like POUNDAGE in an old refrigerator
21. Stole a refrigerator and put all my halogen lights in it along with a 5000 watt security light I found on top of a football stadium
22. Planted 693 more seeds in old coconut shells and put a half a box of Miracle Gro granules on each one
23. One sprouted and it screamed at me to kill it before it had to spend another second in that damn fridge
24. Gave up tryin to be a weed baron
25. Got stoned again decided to put the Arabs out of biz with a car the will run on leftover Mountain Dew
26. Broke into a vending machine and stole 900 cans of Mountain Dew
27. and so on...

 

[Billy Liar]

I was like WTF....2 threads ?.......

me too fred hehee...

peace
BL

 

[MediMary]

haha Me three Billy!, I wondered where my pictures went I had just uploaded. LOL


Originally Posted by DHF

it`d be hardta pump enough juice through the system without disturbing the rootzones while surely pushin roots straight into the drains for constant clogging.......

there is quite a bit of clogging with the system, the plants closest to the return manifold, the roots grow into the tee. (3" tee reudced to 3/4")

Smaller pvc pipe increases pressure and would recirculate far faster as in Heathies "souped up" Aquafarms he uses 1 1/2" drains on.....
So 1 1/2" pipe would move the water twice as fast as 3" ? seems like the right logic .

I often thought about a recirculating setup that would blast juice through the system in 1 direction with 1 pump for X amount of hrs, and then that pump kicks off and another 1 kicks on ta pump juice in the "opposite" direction to train roots away from the drains and keep em from growing/flowing in 1 continuous direction FTW.....

thats an interesting idea =)

I also thought that inside the bottom buckets could be "T"`s on the front and backside of the feed/drainlines to divert flow away from directly hitting the rootmass`s straight on , and create flow "around" the rootzones with a big enough pump to cause a swirling vortex of seriously oxygenated juice around the rootzones as it gets pushed on to the next container , so on and so forth.....

This wouldnt be applicable in heaths new design I picture above, unless the water was fed through the bottom (as heath said for a quieter option?



Smaller feed/drainlines= more increased pressure/faster flow.......Bigass pipe= less pressure/slower flow....My vertical rack rooms used 5200 gph "pond aerator" pumps with 13' head pressure to be ableta choke down the flow with control valves on all 4 levels so as to create "equal" flow and pressure to each individual plantsite/container regardless of which level they were on regardless of how close or how far away from the pump they were located...........

(damn, I need to see this setup!)

That "T" with an elbow inside my rez`s above the pumps helped as a bypass for such a bigass pump while blasting juice back down for that jetstream waterfall effect.......

Pretty sure your UC can`t be retro`d to do away with the heat blastin airpump Bro , cuz you`ve already got the waterfall return comin back to rez as juice gets pumped back through the buckets.....

thanks for better explaining it to me.

Get rid of the shit and build a "Heathie" setup like Cyat`s killin it with.......I`m sure you can prolly get closeta what yas paid for the UC`s since they`re so popular with the kiddies.......

I didnt have a camera two grow back, but I did a heath inspired system(well all these systems are actually heath inspired

I took a couple points from billyliar( the three drains) and lost system from the farm.


trying to better understand the system, and how much water need to be flowing.
I had all kinds of questions when I was running it, now after awhile im all having trouble remembering any problems I had. LOL

I didnt cement any of the pvc i just stuck it on, ran three of these puppies, had 18 places where it connected and not one leak, had some wierd mold like build up at the top of the pipes, where the water wasnt touching. How high should the water set in the return pipeps? like half way? should water be touching the top of the pipe?

Since they were not glued on I would take off every three weeks or so and clean them.

Didnt like the grommets I used, the drains were 1 1/4 inch, and all three modules had 3/4 inch feed, with a 1200 gph pump, each container had about 22 gallons in it.

 

[MediMary]

Originally Posted by Billy Liar
HI peeps,
RE pumps, I've tried a few submersibles now and what I've found is that pumps that give more head pressure tend to transfer more heat to the solution (only submersible pumps), so I use a low wattage pump that moves lots of water, the trick is to size supply pipes accordingly...
Any advice on sizing of pipes?

A few warm res's led me back to my college books on pipe sizing... lol..
Externally fitted mag drive pumps should not transfer any real heat as the motor (coil) is not in the solution, but for me piping a pump externally is not simple enough...


Simple ways to get the DO required IMO are:


It would be interesting to hear Heaths opinion on this but my minimum flow to each bucket would be 1000 lph...
what size bucket would get 1000lph?
10gal 20gal, etc...
I suppose bigger buckets would require more flow... with enough flow and DO there should be NO dead spots in the system, ie areas with low DO, and root growths shows this to be true....

peace
BL

Thanks again billy,

 

[Billy Liar]

So in heaths modifided aqua farms, it had the inner and outer bucket, on heaths last build out he used this thing.

View attachment 99240

View attachment 99241

View attachment 99242
I notice he only drills holes in the bottom, Is this to prevent lateral root growth from floating over and clogging the pump??

Also does having the inside bucket closer to the wall/side where the drain is help prevent roots from growing into the drain? here the 4 gallon bucket is much further from the side with the drain, where as in the pictures of the aquafarms it looks to be super close(which seems like it would help prevent clogs)

the 4 gallon tanks sits where it does so the removable lid stays as an inspection port, thats it.....
I use the smaller outer tank which means I have to cut out the lid etc.. I dont know how to post pics from other forums to show how my design looks.. the raised return seems to help with root/drain clogging issues IMO, but I still like to have more returns from the tank...

When I copied heaths modded waterfarms (returns at the bottom), there was a slight issue with returns clogging with roots, so an extra return (bypass) was needed to alleviate the problem, I suppose the theory is that water follows the path of least restriction, so once this "route" becomes blocked, then the water is forced to use the bypass which isn't blocked with roots.... this would see you to the end of the grow problem free.. but with these bigger tanks (bigger than waterfarms) and raised returns, there is more space for root mass so the clogging problem seems less of a problem....

peace
BL

 

[gr33nie]

Nice to see you posting again Billy - I followed a couple of your tree-machine threads at the other place. Hope you and yours are doing well

I've learned a lot from Heath and yourself over the past while and i'm stumped as to why more people aren't following these much simpler systems instead of the wayyy over-complicated UC or MPB systems I see at the farm.

They work. And they work well. And i'm pretty sure that they are cheaper to build as well.

 

[Billy Liar]

LOL Hi gr33nie, good to see you again too matey, hope you are well also, I'm still suffering a bit of shock from a motor accident the other day, other than that alls good at the house of Liar.... heheee..

Medi mary, My slow typing helped me miss your post.. with pipe sizing, I come off the pump with 1.5" pipe and tee off in 3/4" pipe in a manifold kind of arrangement, and depending on length of run some times even tee off in 1" pipe, good points to remember are that a 90deg elbow offers the same restriction as 0.5m of pipe so keep fittings to a minimum... less restriction will give more flow.. its easy to over think such a simple system, but I learned to keep grows as efficient as poss. And for me I try to get everything efficient... the guy who lives with my grows also is very energy conscious, so he's keen on low running costs, he does pay the bills.....lol
peace
BL

 

[MediMary]

ok on the danner 1800 isnt it MPT and FPT(female pipe thread) in 3/4" do you immediatly put on a 3/4" (from the pump) to a 1 1.5" Increaser(LOL, i have no idea if thats what its called, bullhead?).
Im going to stop by the bay and reread your threads.
see yah in awhile.

 

[MediMary]

so pretty billy!

you can't see your feed in this picture can you? or is it the white pvc n the background?