Constant problems using organics LC #1/Recipe #1
- Thread starter rupertb
- Start date
Without getting too deep into your soil specifics I will tell you right off the bat Blueberry is sometimes extremely picky and sensitive feeding wise and it will burn faster than just about any strain as you likely know.
Few questions =
Do you know what your tap water ppm reading it?
Did you add any Dolomite Lime to your soil mix?
Now, it honestly looks like severe Magnesium OR Sulfur issue to me. Luckily both can be treated at the same time.
I am guessing this is a severe Sulfur deficiency from the looks of it with the dried out tip and downward curling leaves plus you are using tap water which may be contributing to high PH and excess calcium which can lock out S. Plus the very purple stems but since that is already common in blueberry it's very hard to diagnose. Either way some epsom salts should get you right back where you need to be.
Take one good teaspoon of Epsom salts (this is a light dose) and add it to a clean gallon of RO or Distilled water then PH adjust to 6 with lemon juice or something similiar. Water your plant as you normally would and maybe see if you can get some runoff to flush through the medium somewhat without drowning your roots and see if the symptoms improve in a week or so.
Few questions =
Do you know what your tap water ppm reading it?
Did you add any Dolomite Lime to your soil mix?
Now, it honestly looks like severe Magnesium OR Sulfur issue to me. Luckily both can be treated at the same time.
I am guessing this is a severe Sulfur deficiency from the looks of it with the dried out tip and downward curling leaves plus you are using tap water which may be contributing to high PH and excess calcium which can lock out S. Plus the very purple stems but since that is already common in blueberry it's very hard to diagnose. Either way some epsom salts should get you right back where you need to be.
Take one good teaspoon of Epsom salts (this is a light dose) and add it to a clean gallon of RO or Distilled water then PH adjust to 6 with lemon juice or something similiar. Water your plant as you normally would and maybe see if you can get some runoff to flush through the medium somewhat without drowning your roots and see if the symptoms improve in a week or so.
Potassium def on the dead curled up dried part? I'm thinking cal/mag def on the first two photos.
Do you use molasses in your water? You can water with some epsom salts and spray with a 1:8 solution milk:water (2%!!)
Did you use dolomite lime? What was the Ca:Mg ratio?
How hard is your water?
Do you use molasses in your water? You can water with some epsom salts and spray with a 1:8 solution milk:water (2%!!)
Did you use dolomite lime? What was the Ca:Mg ratio?
How hard is your water?
rckymtnthuglife
Member
Honestly man I used to have all kinds of deficiencies using LC's mix. Try using Roots Organic soil instead of peat or pro-mix. and add the compost and perlite. 1 tbs each per gal of SRP, 5-8-4, alfalfa, and kelp meal and 1 1/2 tbs per gal each of greensand and lime. If I transplant in a timely manner this becomes a plain water only mix. I will add 2tbs of bone meal to the bottom of the flowering pot.
What I see in your pics looks alot like K def to me. Instead of trying to diagnose the problem transplant into some dank soil and let the plant take care of itself. Transplanting has always saved my ass. I've got 8 trees that are taller than me under 3600k watts. That were starting to look like yours in 20 gal pots a couple of weeks ago. I transplanted into some 40gs and all is well.
Peace
Rocky
What I see in your pics looks alot like K def to me. Instead of trying to diagnose the problem transplant into some dank soil and let the plant take care of itself. Transplanting has always saved my ass. I've got 8 trees that are taller than me under 3600k watts. That were starting to look like yours in 20 gal pots a couple of weeks ago. I transplanted into some 40gs and all is well.
Peace
Rocky
Yeah nothing out of the ordinary there... I use LC mix but with recipe three (straight teas) and I run into a mg def here and there that I fix with epsom salts...
I dont know man.. Try spraying with some epsom salts (Mg) one day, and milk (Ca, P, K) (2% at 1:8 ratio, milk:water) the next day.. (I dont like mixing milk and epsom salts..)
Do you have any maxicrop powdered kelp? The 1-0-4 kind? If so, you can spray that, or water with it to help combat K deficiency.
yeah, for comparison, i use just half the N ferts that are in my standard mix for blueberry. hard to draw conclusions about the soil mix using that strain.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
the third pic looks like phosphorus deficiency, you are in vegetative growth right? then i think that's what the third pic is showing.
Phosphorus (P) Mobile Element and Macro Element
Benefit: Phosphorus does a lot of things for the plant. One of the most important parts of Phosphorus is: It aids in root growth and influences the vigor of the plant and is
one of the most important elements in flowering as well helps to germinate seedlings.
Phosphorus is an essential plant nutrient, and since it is needed in large amounts, it is classified as a macronutrient. Phosphorus is a MAJOR important nutrient in the plants reproductive stages. Without this element the plants will have a lot of problems blooming without proper levels of Phosphorus.
When your plants are deficient in phosphorus, this can overall reduce the size of your plants. Not enough causes slow growth and causes the plant to become weak, to little amount of Phosphorus causes slow growths in leaves that may or may not drop off. The edges all around the leaves or half of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards a bit causing the part of the leaves to curl up in the air a bit. Fan leaves will show dark greenish/purplish and yellowish tones along with a dullish blue color to them. Sometimes the stems can be red, along with red petioles that can happen when having a Phosphorus deficiency. This isn’t a sure sure sign of you having one though, but can be a sign. Some strains just show the red petioles and stems from its genes.
So pretty much the overall dark green color with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is a good sign of a Phosphorus deficiency. Having Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can make phosphorous absorption very troublesome for plants.
Many people get a Phosphorus deficiency confused with a fungus problem because the ends of the leaves look like a fungus problem, But the damage occurs at the end of the leaves. side of the leaves and has a glass like feeling to it as if it had a ph problem. Parts affected by a phosphorus deficiency are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.
Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium
Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by PH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.
Soil
Phosphorus gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0-5.5
Phosphorus is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-7.5 (wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Phosphorus gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 6.0-8.5.
Phosphorus is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0- 5.8. (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus Deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Phosphorus deficiency
Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Phosphorus in them will fix a Phosphorus deficiency. If you have a phosphorus deficiency you should use any N-P-K ratio that is over 5.Again Peters all purpose 20-20-20 is a good mix. Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Other forms of phosphorus supplements are: Bone meal, which is gradual absorption, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where bone/blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Fruit eating bat guano, which is fast absorption, Worm castings, which is gradual absorption, Fish meal, which is medium absorption, Soft Rock Phosphate, which is medium absorption, Jamaican or Indonesian Guano, which is fast absorption. Crabshell, which is slow absorption. Tiger Bloom , which is fast absorption.
Here is a list of things to help fix a Phosphrus Deficiency.
Chemical
Advanced nutrients Bloom (0-5-4)
Vita Bloom (0-7-5)
BC Bloom (1.1-4.4-7)
GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4)
GH Maxi Bloom (5-15-14)
GH Floranova Bloom (4-8-7)
Dyna-Gro Bloom (3-12-6)
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)
Awsome Blossums
Organic
Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Bloom (4-3-6)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Bloom (.5-1.5-2)
Fox Farm Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
Pure Blend Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Buddswell (0-7-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Indonesian Bat Guano (0-13-0)
Rainbow Mix Bloom (1-9-2)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
BIO BLOOM (2-6-3.5)
AGE OLD BLOOM (5-10-5)
ALASKA MORBLOOM (0-10-10)
METANATURALS ORGANIC BLOOM (1-5-5)
Any of these will cure your phosphorus deficiency. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.
Now if you added to much chemical ferts and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss,
Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.
Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.
the first two pictures are showing magnesium defeciency
Soil
Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
the third pic looks like phosphorus deficiency, you are in vegetative growth right? then i think that's what the third pic is showing.
Phosphorus (P) Mobile Element and Macro Element
Benefit: Phosphorus does a lot of things for the plant. One of the most important parts of Phosphorus is: It aids in root growth and influences the vigor of the plant and is
one of the most important elements in flowering as well helps to germinate seedlings.
Phosphorus is an essential plant nutrient, and since it is needed in large amounts, it is classified as a macronutrient. Phosphorus is a MAJOR important nutrient in the plants reproductive stages. Without this element the plants will have a lot of problems blooming without proper levels of Phosphorus.
When your plants are deficient in phosphorus, this can overall reduce the size of your plants. Not enough causes slow growth and causes the plant to become weak, to little amount of Phosphorus causes slow growths in leaves that may or may not drop off. The edges all around the leaves or half of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards a bit causing the part of the leaves to curl up in the air a bit. Fan leaves will show dark greenish/purplish and yellowish tones along with a dullish blue color to them. Sometimes the stems can be red, along with red petioles that can happen when having a Phosphorus deficiency. This isn’t a sure sure sign of you having one though, but can be a sign. Some strains just show the red petioles and stems from its genes.
So pretty much the overall dark green color with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is a good sign of a Phosphorus deficiency. Having Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can make phosphorous absorption very troublesome for plants.
Many people get a Phosphorus deficiency confused with a fungus problem because the ends of the leaves look like a fungus problem, But the damage occurs at the end of the leaves. side of the leaves and has a glass like feeling to it as if it had a ph problem. Parts affected by a phosphorus deficiency are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.
Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium
Problems with Phosphorus being locked out by PH troubles
Cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil.
Soil
Phosphorus gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0-5.5
Phosphorus is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-7.5 (wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Phosphorus gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 6.0-8.5.
Phosphorus is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0- 5.8. (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Phosphorus Deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Phosphorus deficiency
Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Phosphorus in them will fix a Phosphorus deficiency. If you have a phosphorus deficiency you should use any N-P-K ratio that is over 5.Again Peters all purpose 20-20-20 is a good mix. Miracle grow Tomato plant food, Miracle grow All purpose plant food (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Other forms of phosphorus supplements are: Bone meal, which is gradual absorption, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where bone/blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Fruit eating bat guano, which is fast absorption, Worm castings, which is gradual absorption, Fish meal, which is medium absorption, Soft Rock Phosphate, which is medium absorption, Jamaican or Indonesian Guano, which is fast absorption. Crabshell, which is slow absorption. Tiger Bloom , which is fast absorption.
Here is a list of things to help fix a Phosphrus Deficiency.
Chemical
Advanced nutrients Bloom (0-5-4)
Vita Bloom (0-7-5)
BC Bloom (1.1-4.4-7)
GH Flora Bloom (0-5-4)
GH Maxi Bloom (5-15-14)
GH Floranova Bloom (4-8-7)
Dyna-Gro Bloom (3-12-6)
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (2-8-4)
Awsome Blossums
Organic
Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Bloom (4-3-6)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Bloom (.5-1.5-2)
Fox Farm Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
Pure Blend Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Pure Blend Pro Bloom (2.5-2-5)
Buddswell (0-7-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Indonesian Bat Guano (0-13-0)
Rainbow Mix Bloom (1-9-2)
Earth Juice Bloom (0-3-1)
BIO BLOOM (2-6-3.5)
AGE OLD BLOOM (5-10-5)
ALASKA MORBLOOM (0-10-10)
METANATURALS ORGANIC BLOOM (1-5-5)
Any of these will cure your phosphorus deficiency. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.
Now if you added to much chemical ferts and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss,
Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.
Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.
the first two pictures are showing magnesium defeciency
Soil
Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
DEFINITELY a phosphorous deficiency. Purple stems.
The leaves look like a potassium deficiency.
What kind of bone and kelp are you using?
I would look for Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed 2-3-1 and give them a shot of 2 tablespoons per gallon and see if they pep up. Don't go to 12/12 light cycle until they recover.
I've seen worse plants come back healthy with proper care.
I do think there is something amiss with your soil and nute mix however. That's usually where the problem is. Go over your mixes for us and be specific. Brand names and such.
Burn1
The leaves look like a potassium deficiency.
What kind of bone and kelp are you using?
I would look for Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed 2-3-1 and give them a shot of 2 tablespoons per gallon and see if they pep up. Don't go to 12/12 light cycle until they recover.
I've seen worse plants come back healthy with proper care.
I do think there is something amiss with your soil and nute mix however. That's usually where the problem is. Go over your mixes for us and be specific. Brand names and such.
Burn1
Interesting thread, as we have noted before though it's hard to really take much from the "purple stems" because blueberry plants grown perfectly with optimal everything still show this trait in some phenos. Just a point worth mentioning again I think. Good luck! 
That's exactly what I use (except for the dolomite brand name) an always had the best grows that way.
All strains are different however. Your plants are asking for food.
Burn1
IwannatokeNbone
Member
i luv luv luv orgainc guys with 20+ things in there dirt and 12 hour bubbled teas with purified water who have problems growing a weed, sorry yall but had to say it, it makes my day a little. i hope u fix your issues.
S
schwagg
it's 36 hrs and rainwater. thanks for helping though!
looks like your PH is too high and locking out some elements there.
i kno we don't pay attn to PH when ammending soils.
what are you soil temps like?
being it is winter on 1/2 the globe, maybe it gets overly cold in your grow room?
maybe not whats wrong with ya, but it can happen and we haven't covered that angle yet.
i kno we don't pay attn to PH when ammending soils.
what are you soil temps like?
being it is winter on 1/2 the globe, maybe it gets overly cold in your grow room?
maybe not whats wrong with ya, but it can happen and we haven't covered that angle yet.
dolomite lime is way too high in mg to be used as a calcium source. the high mg levels will cause major nutriment lock up. nutrient lock up means nutrients even though are in the mix are not available to the plants. the one article that made all of very very easy for me to understand is a short article by botanist phd carey reams in his downloadable pdf "soil fertility" by doctor carey reams. one paragraph in here nets out proper balance in terms of true calcium ppms. calcium is the pivot point and he adeptly explains the downfalls of dolomite lime. i'm an idiit so i can't posts links but it's a must read.honestly.
