Why is Organic Cannabis better?

[SativaHybrid]

I do agree Lazyman that a low percentage of people actually use things like garden compost indoors however it must be said that i am one of them. These practices are shuned because they are misunderstood and many try them without ensuring the environment is suitable. I have been using garden compost, worms, conpanion plants, etc. indoors for years. Do i recommend it to someone who hasn't edcated themselves on organic practices as a whole NO. However it can and is applied extremeley succesfully indoors by many people who understand what is necesarry to create the optimal environment.

 

[Lazyman]

C21H; Not one single post addressed the question/topic put forth, instead the shouters wanted to shout. You can read this stuff from Lazy all over this forum.

I've addressed your questions, but you ignore mine. It's cool, I am capable of admitting when I'm wrong, even if you can't. Keep trying to change the terms of the debate so you can save face, nobody will notice.

 

[C21H30O2]

Ok and the relationship between the microherd and the newly-transplanted cutting: How long does it take for this relationship to take hold and begin feeding the plant as much as it requires? I know it's not instantly, which puts it at an immediate disadvantage to salt ferts. Any delay slows growth and diminishes yield.

About the bugs and organic soil, do you think this symbiosis occurs irrespective of sunlight or UV? Or is this another characteristic exhibited primarily by outdoor plants?

I will grant you chem ferts are taken up immediately. but with ACT and a well made AND cooked mix (allowing the mix to sit for 2 weeks or more) the plant will be receiving nutrients within 24 hours. AND (big and) it will continue to receive nutrients at its maximal rate determined by the plant itself based on the exudates of its roots.

So yes chem may give you an immediate boost but good organics catches up quick and stays on overdrive.

 

[C21H30O2]

some points not discuss in this thread

1) organic is phonetically close to orgasmic

2) the differential being mirobrial interactions in the rhizosphere that influence the production of secondary metabolites such as alkaloids, terpenoids and flavonoids

and the phylosphere!!!

 

[Lazyman]

some points not discuss in this thread

1) organic is phonetically close to orgasmic

2) the differential being mirobrial interactions in the rhizosphere that influence the production of secondary metabolites such as alkaloids, terpenoids and flavonoids

1) LOL!

2) This would be very difficult to back up unless you did a proper study with a control, and had unrestricted access to a mass spectrometer or gas chromatagraph. Given the same genetics, environment, etc, do you really think that we cannot isolate and therefore supplement ANY chemical produced in nature? The end result being a choice: pour it out of the bottle, or cultivate it in an elaborate soil web and hope that it works.

Hope doesn't really factor into my gardening practices much, but I'd rather know what was in my medium and nutes than guess what is.

 

[guest456mpy]

I have a farm that has been in my family for generations, well over a hundred years. We've been growing with the time honored three field crop rotation method from the very beginning. My grandfather used to drive around to neighboring farms and gathered manure for our use while the other surrounding farms one by one switched to chemical nutes. I can honestly say that our organically grown product was not superior to our neighbor's chemically grown output. I do feel that organics is more sustainable in terms of soil and water table preservation if the chemicals are not applied correctly. Organics for us meant more than just soil treatment. It meant crop co-planting to avoid the need for pesticides.

But indoors it is difficult to scale things down, and extra space and ventilation for composting, etc. Chemical style growing gains the edge in ease of application as the size of the grow decreases.

The actual skill of the grower is far more important than any particular method or materials. The successful grower is able to read his plants and provide what they need in a timely manner. There is no absolute better in these two technologies, it is a "horses for courses" type of decision based on factors that vary with each grow.

 

[schwagg]

Ok and the relationship between the microherd and the newly-transplanted cutting: How long does it take for this relationship to take hold and begin feeding the plant as much as it requires? I know it's not instantly, which puts it at an immediate disadvantage to salt ferts. Any delay slows growth and diminishes yield.

it doesn't delay anything.

 

[SativaHybrid]

Lazy i don't understand why the lack of symbiotic relationships in a new cutting inherently limits it's ability. These relationships are not necessary to see the same results as with chems they allow for the possibility of better results. Not to mention that the nutrient requirements for a cutting are extremley low. Which allows for the argument that it would be easier to achieve optimal results (with a newly rooted clone) with organics. Not achieved better just easier.

 

[C21H30O2]

I have a farm that has been in my family for generations, well over a hundred years. We've been growing with the time honored three field crop rotation method from the very beginning. My grandfather used to drive around to neighboring farms and gathered manure for our use while the other surrounding farms one by one switched to chemical nutes. I can honestly say that our organically grown product was not superior to our neighbor's chemically grown output. I do feel that organics is more sustainable in terms of soil and water table preservation if the chemicals are not applied correctly. Organics for us meant more than just soil treatment. It meant crop co-planting to avoid the need for pesticides.

But indoors it is difficult to scale things down, and extra space and ventilation for composting, etc. Chemical style growing gains the edge in ease of application as the size of the grow decreases.

The actual skill of the grower is far more important than any particular method or materials. The successful grower is able to read his plants and provide what they need in a timely manner. There is no absolute better in these two technologies, it is a "horses for courses" type of decision based on factors that vary with each grow.

I think VG would disagree highly. wuts he getting 1.5 ... 2 g/w. all organic.

 

[Lazyman]

I will grant you chem ferts are taken up immediately. but with ACT and a well made AND cooked mix (allowing the mix to sit for 2 weeks or more) the plant will be receiving nutrients within 24 hours. AND (big and) it will continue to receive nutrients at its maximal rate determined by the plant itself based on the exudates of its roots.

So yes chem may give you an immediate boost but good organics catches up quick and stays on overdrive.

Interesting, 24 hours? that's considerably faster than I'd been told previously by other organic fans on IC, but I'll take your word for it. Most of them told me 1-2 weeks to develop the microherd to "working" levels.


Look guys, I'm not going to argue that organics isn't an easier way to grow outdoors. Mix up the soil and water it. I know and understand the time it takes to cultivate good soil, having read prodigiously and having used it outdoors (on veggies and weed) myself. I compost, rototill in rabbit manure and top dress guanos with the rest. But this is a fairly narrow application, and is often done because outdoors it is more difficult to do hydro and feed salt ferts.

For the record, I'm doing my first outdoor run this year, and though I'm using his holes in the ground, I plan on feeding them with salt ferts via Blumats, just like I do indoors. I sincerely doubt the plants will suffer at all, but I will gladly report back in a year with my findings.

Practicing what I preach...

 

[schwagg]

I've addressed your questions, but you ignore mine. It's cool, I am capable of admitting when I'm wrong, even if you can't. Keep trying to change the terms of the debate so you can save face, nobody will notice.

about the best thing i like about you is your avatar. don't bother, the swelling of your head is seen claerly.

yes you are wrong, we know that. you said it yourself.

save face? mm has tried to help you. wtf are thinking?

 

[guest2012y]

Bugs...
I have several types of "bugs",ATM none are the bad ones. Blind soil thrips help break down organic matter,worms,soil mites,pill bugs,some kind of unidentified predator bug,a few types of spiders,little white potworms,and nematodes. These are all beneficial in my garden and soil.
I recently took a tablespoon of my soil out of a flowering pot and spread it out on a white piece of paper in front of a fellow herb grower who doesn't grow organic...he almost pooped himself as I would have when I was on that trip because it started crawling.
Everything relies on balance and diversity in that relationship,it's basically an eco-system in an insulated semi-sealed room with a roof,so why not treat it that way.
As far as controlling/eliminating bugs that are destructive...I got it down to an art. On one end of the pest spectrum spider mites are the easiest pest to be rid of,and things like root aphids and flower thrips aren't so easy.
Understanding how to deal with these pests on a time line and eliminate them for good comes with understanding how micro organisms,beneficial insects,etc.,etc. work in the soil.
Yeah it's messy having dirt inside,yeah the pots are heavy...but it's the best of being a boy who plays in the dirt and a man who doesn't cry about lifting something heavy.
The herb just straight rocks...whatever type I run is super bomb over the other growers who grow the same types in chem/bottle gardens.
I don't hate these guys..they are my friends,they just don't understand it due to a lack of actually getting their hands in it and getting dirty.
Bugs are just bugs...we are smarter and have the power to assemble what determines if the good or bad thrive in the indoor garden.

 

[SativaHybrid]

Again i want to stress that i am not claiming these results to be easy. If you want to just be able to add nutes out of a bottle and see results than chems may be better suited. However to draw conclusions on organic gardening based off of this experience alone is a disjustice to the community.

I just want to thank everyone at ICMAG because atleast we can have a logical relatively well manered discussion. I have lurked for many years only posting intermitently but im gonna try to start contributing more. I really miss this type of intelectual debate i haven't really been involved in these types of debates since college.

 

[C21H30O2]

Interesting, 24 hours? that's considerably faster than I'd been told previously by other organic fans on IC, but I'll take your word for it. Most of them told me 1-2 weeks to develop the microherd to "working" levels.


Look guys, I'm not going to argue that organics isn't an easier way to grow outdoors. Mix up the soil and water it. I know and understand the time it takes to cultivate good soil, having read prodigiously and having used it outdoors (on veggies and weed) myself. I compost, rototill in rabbit manure and top dress guanos with the rest. But this is a fairly narrow application, and is often done because outdoors it is more difficult to do hydro and feed salt ferts.

For the record, I'm doing my first outdoor run this year, and though I'm using his holes in the ground, I plan on feeding them with salt ferts via Blumats, just like I do indoors. I sincerely doubt the plants will suffer at all, but I will gladly report back in a year with my findings.

Practicing what I preach...

dud i just got some casey jones clones. I put them in a mix of compost, ewc, and perlite. within 48 hours they had grown over an inch and they havent shown any sign of slowing.

 

[Lazyman]

I think VG would disagree highly. wuts he getting 1.5 ... 2 g/w. all organic.

I usually see guys with smaller gardens getting the better GPW, and that number going down as the garden scales up.

No offense to VG, but it's hard to judge the quality of a growing technique with a small light and a few plants. It's a very small sample, statistically speaking. I actually just got my best run of my life out of a row of 4 lights, 6.8# or roughly 1.78# per light with no CO2, and with salt ferts.

Genetics and as Hempy mentioned, grower skill are criticial to getting good results. But I think that salts offer more precise control and allow a skilled grower to really maximize the plants potential. Sure they will grow happily in organic soil and with lots of practice even match a salt grow in yield. Both take similar amounts of experience and practice to do their best, but I think the learning curve on salts is much shorter and shallower. Growing indoors has little to do with being environmentally friendly, and much to do with control.

 

[schwagg]

Look guys, I'm not going to argue that organics isn't an easier way to grow outdoors. Mix up the soil and water it. I know and understand the time it takes to cultivate good soil, having read prodigiously and having used it outdoors (on veggies and weed) myself. I compost, rototill in rabbit manure and top dress guanos with the rest. But this is a fairly narrow application, and is often done because outdoors it is more difficult to do hydro and feed salt ferts.

For the record, I'm doing my first outdoor run this year, and though I'm using his holes in the ground, I plan on feeding them with salt ferts via Blumats, just like I do indoors. I sincerely doubt the plants will suffer at all, but I will gladly report back in a year with my findings.

Practicing what I preach...

do you even know what you preach?

 

[guest456mpy]

Originally posted by SpasticGramps...

I think VG would disagree highly. wuts he getting 1.5 ... 2 g/w. all organic.

I don't see how he would disagree, it proves he is a successful grower. I didn't claim chemical grows were better producing, only that there was no difference due strictly to it being either a chemical or organic grow.

 

[Lazyman]

do you even know what you preach?

Ok to clarify, (last year) I did two large plants and 5 small ones outdoors, the big ones got ripped out of my backyard 3 weeks before the finish.

But please, continue ignoring the discussion at hand, maybe you can help by looking for spelling errors or something useful?

 

[C21H30O2]

Originally posted by SpasticGramps...


I don't see how he would disagree, it proves he is a successful grower. I didn't claim chemical grows were better producing, only that there was no difference due strictly to it being either a chemical or organic grow.

"But indoors it is difficult to scale things down, and extra space and ventilation for composting, etc. Chemical style growing gains the edge in ease of application as the size of the grow decreases. "

 

[schwagg]

Again i want to stress that i am not claiming these results to be easy. If you want to just be able to add nutes out of a bottle and see results than chems may be better suited.

that's some more truth again. organic out of a bottle? i love the hydro store, pretty pictures on all the labels!