Why is Organic Cannabis better?

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I cannot present a fair opinion here. Who can really? Naturally then, the Science sub-forum is where this question needs to get answered. The opinions get old after a while. I know you all agree.

It's obvious where I stand on this issue. But let's see some peer reviewed opinions, cause I'm no professor.

imvho organics dominates chem indoors: environmental aspects, aesthetics of flower (and concentrate), safety, flower (and concentrate) quality in terms of affect, taste, smell, & harsh-factor.
I guess chem dominates in ease and yield. and for hydro ect. I don't know, that's what I read.
Outdoors is not a debate, I hope.

But enough with my opinion.
@IC: a little help getting these full text please.

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=866175&show=abstract

Does organic food taste better? A claim substantiation approach
Author(s): Laurence Fillion, (Laurence Fillion is Senior Consumer Scientist, at the Sensory and Consumer Science Group at the Leatherhead Food Research Association, Leatherhead, UK.), Stacey Arazi, (Stacey Arazi is Sensory Scientist, at the Sensory and Consumer Science Group at the Leatherhead Food Research Association, Leatherhead, UK.)
Citation: Laurence Fillion, Stacey Arazi, (2002) "Does organic food taste better? A claim substantiation approach", Nutrition & Food Science, Vol. 32 Iss: 4, pp.153 - 157
Keywords: Consumers, Organic food, Taste
Article type: Research paper
DOI: 10.1108/00346650210436262 (Permanent URL)
Publisher: MCB UP Ltd
Abstract: As the demand for organic foods has grown globally, disputes have arisen on whether organic foods are more nutritious, safer, and better for the environment. To many consumers, though, a major issue is whether organic foods taste different and, especially if they are being asked to pay a premium price, whether they taste better. Via the use of sensory analysis using trained panellists, and consumer testing, research was carried out to determine whether the claim of “organic food tastes better” could be substantiated. The study found that organic orange juice was perceived as tasting better than conventional orange juice; however, no differences were found between organic and conventional milk. Therefore, it is concluded that the global claim that “organic food tastes better” is not valid, and each product type should be treated separately before a claim can be made.

The organic milk I drink tastes WAY better than conventional. Strauss vs conventional, no contest. My milk has the fat on top and tastes sweet and grassy. Organic grass fed dairy kills it for anyone who knows what milk is supposed to taste like.

This next study was published in response to the prior. The title is flaming garbage imo. Should have just called it "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence". We all know organic tastes better.

Organic food claims cannot be substantiated through testing of samples intercepted in the marketplace: a horticulturalist's opinion

F. Roger Harker,
The Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand Ltd, Mt Albert Research Centre, Private Bag 92 169, Auckland, New Zealand

Available online 31 May 2003.
Abstract
Some studies comparing organic and non-organic foods continue to source products from retailers (see review by Bourn & Prescott [Critical Reviews in Food Science and Nutrition, 42 (2002) 1]). While the reasons for taking this approach are rarely stated, it is likely that in part the decision reflects the difficulty in obtaining test samples from agricultural field trials, and the assumption that mixing of products and/or raw materials during processing and marketing results in an unbiased and randomized distribution of samples on the retail shelf. However, decisions on appropriate sites, cultivars, and harvest criteria can differ between organic and non-organic sectors of agriculture. These decisions do not govern the organic status of a commodity, but may introduce systematic bias in the quality of food intercepted in the marketplace. Furthermore, the normal distribution of ‘quality’ obtained at harvest is sometimes modified through the imposition of ‘quality standards’, which aim to provide the consumer with a higher quality product than they might otherwise receive. Thus ‘quality’ on the retail shelf can reflect industry regulations as much as the different production systems. This article uses experiences in the apple industry to highlight how differences between organic and non-organic fruit observed in the marketplace may be confounded by factors not prescribed within organic production protocols. Claims that an organic product tastes ‘different’, is ‘preferred’ and/or ‘more healthy’ have the implicit expectation that the improvement is due to the way the food has been grown. Therefore, robust experimental approaches should source product from field trials rather than from retailers.

Yeah, okay, good point, but whatever. Organic was still preferred for produce (plants). And people aren't used to real tasting milk, they are accustomed to milk from hormone infused animals that eat the cheapest feed possible instead of grass and hay.

I also saw a study that says organic meat is not statistically better than commercial. I buy all of my meat from the farmer's market. My non-organic friends cannot stand the semi-wild taste of this local free-range organic meat. We don't all know what good even means. It's hard to get statistics on taste.

 

[One Love 731]

I want to reconfigure the whole grow to be strictly organic. I have been growing coco hydro organic for the most part for a few years and am now ready to take the leap to a water only style soil with a few teas. I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject as of lately and am excited to make the change. I really just want to know the herb coming from my garden is as pure as possible. When I started I just wanted to grow, now days I want variety and the cleanest medicine possible. Its no longer about money, I just want to continue to live close to the earth and feel like I'm adding something positive to this crazy world. By 2012 Ill be Organic. Peace, pot and karma. One Love

 

[Plant Pimp]

Greatfullhead is a great guy!! As are many who praise mineral salts, etc. However this doesn't make them right all the time..

Organic gardening when done properly across any species of plant is better! For many reasons, no doubt many of which modern science is not yet aware of...

Organic gardening can not only far surpass "chemical" farming in terms of quality, but also in yield and growth rate. It is not possible to grow buds as sticky, stinky and tasty as one can organically with any mineral salt based fertilisers. I am amazed at how many long term members, breeders, etc have not worked that out yet..

 

[ion]

young thread....where's the hydro-brigade?

tis pretty simple;

"organic" growing timeline: .......uh, several years. millions maybe?

"conventional"/ADVANCEDNUTRIENTS/miracle gro/monsanto growing timeline - 60 years max.


do YOUR OWN research into what yer feeding your plants and you'll drop the over-priced bull-kaka.

1. dont support companies that make shite you dont need.,

2. dont put crap UNKNOWINGLY into your body because you think you get a better product.

3. grow better cheeba

 

[bombadil.360]

Organic gardening when done properly across any species of plant is better!

no doubt. no point arguing any further.

also, before any ignoramus comes to state that "N is N is N no matter the source", this is not so, not true, stop being ignorant please.

take synthetic urea as an example, the most widely used synthetic source of the highest N concentration used for farming; the N in this synthetic urea contains impurities that actually stunt plant-growth, such as biuret; therefore, using synthetic urea as a nitrogen source is in no way, shape or form better than, lets say, worm humus.

most synthetic ferts are a by-product of petroleum , and they can be useful, there is no question you can grow nice crops with them if used properly, but they do not compare in terms of quality to proper organic fertilizing methods.

this is only a debate because some people that use synthetic nutrients need to think they are using the best possible method, but they are not; they are only using a method that produces good results, but not the best results.

over and out

 

[accessndx]

Organic stuff does taste better IMHO....from pot....all the way up the line to your basic apples and oranges.

That being said, I've never grown organic.....and my pot rips the brain cells right out of your head.....after having annihilated your taste buds with the sugary goodness of chem-ferts. I don't really flush, I absolutely don't muss......and it still comes out way better than fine. Nobody knows the difference....pot snobs or otherwise. I've heard people say the most ridiculous shit about the end product that think they know what the deal is........

Example of absurd assumptions and statements: "This burns so well.......it must have been all organic and flushed to a T"...."Damn....you've got the serious organic chronic there!". "You can really taste the difference between a truly organic grow and some crappy hydroponic artificially fed setup.....where'd you get this stuff anyway?" Some of these comments come from people that have grown their own in the past and up to the present....others come from self proclaimed "pot-connoisseurs".

I'm sure there are those out there that can discriminate between organic and non-organics by taste and presentation......the same kinds of individuals that can taste the difference between a "peach", "pepper", "oak" or other nuances in flavor from a fine wine.
Most people can't tell the difference between Manischewitz and a Malbec however.

My hydro is as simple as mixing up Kool-aid. Been doing it the same way now for way over 15 years.......General Hydroponics.....1 tsp./gallon of water.....watered or in reservoir.

 

[bombadil.360]

access, i for one cannot tell the difference between herb grown organically or with synthetics, i'm not sure many people could... could someone? that would be amazing.

maybe your herb burns so good and tastes so nice because you dry it and cure it with a method that produces excellent burning and excellent tasting herb. plus you could be harvesting at a great "harvest window", or have great strains, or all of the above mixed together.

however, proper organics is better than synthetics not really because the herb will taste better or what not, but because of other considerations, like soil-health, salt-accumulation in soil, etc... unless you used the synthetic ferts like a crazy person, adding tons, you definetly can mess with the flavours... or if used some kind of strong synthetic pesticide or fungicide. but to be fair, same goes for organics, if not done properly, you can fuck-up taste, etc...

but synthetics can be a lot easier to use and even cheaper and a lot less work.

there is no question that buying a bottle of ferts is way cheaper and way less work than making your own worm humus, for this you need space and take care of the worms and then extract the humus, it can be a pain... same goes for composting.

not sure if organics could work better in a hydro set-up than synthetics though.

proper organics however, if used in soil grows, lets you re-use soil, and when you hit the sweet-spot, would mostly only need to water properly with the eventual ammendments.

all bio-degradable, non-toxic for plants, animals or humans, non-dependent on petroleum, can make your own, etc...

peace

 

[accessndx]

however, proper organics is better than synthetics not really because the herb will taste better or what not, but because of other considerations, like soil-health, salt-accumulation in soil, etc...

Quoted for truth. However in my particular case, I have hydroton as my medium. The health of rocks as well as the salt accumulation is negligible. Nothing a good bath couldn't fix.

If you're doing soil, and that's outdoors......organic is probably the best methodology.

 

[Madrus Rose]

If organics were as great as supposed , we should be all taking mineral & cedar mud baths at the spa every day ...forget the MJ plants .

tho , love organic teas how about u ?

Don't forget your Cal/Mag supplements & folic acid ...& vitaminC & E !!!

(and if you live in NYC , don't forget to eat a pidgeon for lunch
& keep your city beautiful!)

 

[Puddin'tane]

maybe your herb burns so good and tastes so nice because you dry it and cure it with a method that produces excellent burning and excellent tasting herb. plus you could be harvesting at a great "harvest window", or have great strains, or all of the above mixed together.

I can vouch for this.

 

[CaptainChronizl]

i am all organic here. got a worm farm i the garage. i have a compost bin by my back door. imo when you are running organic soil, the nutrients are easily for the plant to take up. i have a soil recipe i mix up in a cement mixer and let it sit for a month. its got all kinds of stuff in there. i start with a base of roots organic, cut with pure topsoil and add a bunch of things like lime and humic acid. i think my bud burns the cleanest, tastes the best, and they always ask for more. with organic, i can smoke the same strain for a month and get ripped every time. yes, i cure it. when i smoke some ferted shit i usually develop a cough, maybe get sick. i mean, you can flush it but what a hassle. did you flush enough? u never know till you smoke. i am all for fert companies being successful and giving folks jobs, but i just veiw it as an expensive snake oil that produces a similar looking product which is different on a molecular level.

anybody know the next step beyond organic? veganics- best weed ever. uses plant based nutrients that are easier for the plant to uptake.

 

[Plant Pimp]

Ok.. I'll be the outspoken arrogant organics snob that the A + B solution guys can love to hate...

Here it is, plain & simple.

I can tell synthetic grown weed apart from properly grown organic weed easily, here's how.. The synthetic grown stuff is shit!! It's not a subtle difference in taste, it's chalk & fkn cheese!!!Not only have I compared results from the same cuts with friends, I have taken bag seed from commercial weed round these parts and turned it into shit that looks like some of the best pics to grace this wonderful site. You would not recognise nor believe that they were at all related if you didn't know better. The commercial weed was real swollen, generic skunk smell, etc, its offspring however was also ridiculous in yield but more from resin content, it's trichomes were well formed and glistened, it was so sticky it would probly stick to the wall if you threw it hard enough, it smelled like the mother did when you broke her apart and held it up to your nose but FAR more concentrated even when in the next room.. As well as a whole spectrum of aromas not apparent in the mother, not least of which, there's a pine kinda smell to the sticky resin that coats your fingers that seems to be brought out of just about any strain grown this way, But no such resin in the commercial stuff. Needless to say it burned and tasted a whole lot better.

Those who say that they can not notice any difference between organicly grown weed and synthetic grows, here's why.. Real good organic farming is fkn tricky (complex), it requires reasonably high intelligence and a fair bit of dedication to learn. Most likely the people here who know what I'm saying also grow their own food.. I'm not talking about A + B solution organics!!

 

[OldMan&theWeed]

Last year I had a few extra clones of a strain I grow indoors that is comparatively odorless. One of the main reasons I grow this strain is stelth.

Anyways, not having the heart to toss my babies, I planted a small guerrilla patch along side a stream, and left it unattended for two months. I returned expecting it not to be there, but it was. And unlike its chemically grown indoor cloned sisters, it was fragrantly stinky!

Was it its organic environment, natural sunlight? Who knows.

 

[compost]

young thread....where's the hydro-brigade?

tis pretty simple;

"organic" growing timeline: .......uh, several years. millions maybe?

"conventional"/ADVANCEDNUTRIENTS/miracle gro/monsanto growing timeline - 60 years max.


do YOUR OWN research into what yer feeding your plants and you'll drop the over-priced bull-kaka.

1. dont support companies that make shite you dont need.,

2. dont put crap UNKNOWINGLY into your body because you think you get a better product.

3. grow better cheeba

By this logic I would have to question why plants and animals have not traveled off of the earth yet(besides comets and volcano's.) Organics in nature and when done properly indoor do great but good chemical fertilizers properly used perform just as well as organics indoors and better.

I recently switched from organics to a Lucas method to be more consistent. I enjoyed organics but I feel I get better results and have more fluidity with my plants with chemical. My room is also exposed to the elements and bugs. With chemical fertilizers(mainly organic pest and pm control) it helps to keep my room and soil more sanitary. I use regular chlorinated tap water(diluted with some dehumidifier water) also.

In a perfect environment both systems will perform well. What is nice with chemical is that you have more and quicker control of your nute uptake as long as your ph and nute levels are good.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Great posts everyone, thanks for keeping it respectful. I'm still looking for peer reviewed opinions on this topic, or even just the full text versions of the two articles I quoted.
Organics over Chem all day!

 

[imadoofus]

chems all day.

side-by-side of organic(LOL!) vs chem, the chem wins everytime. bigger, healthier, more robust growth.

now, the way i see it, the plant is telling me its clear favorite. and me, i listen to nature. she been on to something interesting the last few 3 billion years here.

taste, flavor, these things are highly subjective variables.

 

[Tilt]

I grow organic myself. I like my own produce.

I truly believe it doesn't matter what type of nutrients a grower uses. If a grower knows how to read a plant and supply its needs the plant will provide its best.

Organics I believe do offer a benefit of systemic disease resistance. It literally has an army on its side. A sterile chemical enviroment relies heavily upon the sterile enviroment and chemicals to protect the plant. The grower has to maintain the enviroment.

 

[Madrus Rose]

i am all organic here. got a worm farm i the garage. i have a compost bin by my back door. imo when you are running organic soil, the nutrients are easily for the plant to take up. i have a soil recipe i mix up in a cement mixer and let it sit for a month. its got all kinds of stuff in there.

i start with a base of roots organic, cut with pure topsoil and add a bunch of things like lime and humic acid. i think my bud burns the cleanest, tastes the best, and they always ask for more. with organic, i can smoke the same strain for a month and get ripped every time. yes, i cure it. when i smoke some ferted shit i usually develop a cough, maybe get sick. i mean, you can flush it but what a hassle. did you flush enough? u never know till you smoke. i am all for fert companies being successful and giving folks jobs, but i just veiw it as an expensive snake oil that produces a similar looking product which is different on a molecular level.

anybody know the next step beyond organic? veganics- best weed ever. uses plant based nutrients that are easier for the plant to uptake.

Worm farm in the garage huh ? Bet that keeps em nice n warm & cozy .
Are they photogenic , like to see a pic of that ?

Yah flushing could be started way earlier for most chemical grows than most do ...once plants are fully mature & well into flowering have enough stored nutes to make it thru . Alot of OD & some GH growers end up with far too many ferts (and organics) left in the soils at the end of the season & product still looks too green at the finish . Indoors have seen some excellent growers start flushing round day 43 ...it would be wiser for most OD growers to initiate flushing earlier than they do.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I grow organic myself. I like my own produce.

I truly believe it doesn't matter what type of nutrients a grower uses. If a grower knows how to read a plant and supply its needs the plant will provide its best.

Organics I believe do offer a benefit of systemic disease resistance. It literally has an army on its side. A sterile chemical enviroment relies heavily upon the sterile enviroment and chemicals to protect the plant. The grower has to maintain the enviroment.

Chemicals? Your mean NPK? I think we're in agreement though. Salts are bad only if they're over applied, ends up in the water table and that's people's fault not salts.

Sometimes I think peeps imagine salt ferts as spewing from the mud valve of some nasty industrial plant. They're called chemicals for a reason. N, P, K and other elements the cannabis plant uses are part of the Periodic Table Of (chemical) Elements. Your best organic formula breaks down into these same (chemical) elements before the plant receives nutrients.

One advantage with chemical nutes is flushing or knowing when to stop adding salts near harvest. Organic compounds don't have to be flushed because roots aren't able to absorb anything until these compounds are broken down. But many growers have a load of organic compounds left over at chop time. These compounds continue to break down before and right through harvest. IMO, is what makes organic not taste as good as properly depleted salts.

 

[hush]

This is a fantastic thread!

I am no expert by any means. I have made many [sometimes successful] attempts at growing correctly the all organic way, and it is definitely more advanced than hydroponics. I mean, I think I'm a pretty good hydroponic gardener, might even call my self advanced. But I can sure feel like a noob when I do organics.

Sometimes I hit the mark, but I still feel like it's luck when it happens. I truly don't know how to judge the right amount of amendments to use, so that they will be completely used up and the soil will flush. This is my ultimate goal. I've smoked bud I grew that was pure organics from beginning to end, and it crackled when I burnt it, along with a harsh smoke. So organics doesn't always mean clean pure smoke, like they say. I have noticed that the organics always tend to be stickier, smell better, have more coloration, but in my case the yields are always smaller than what I get in hydro.

I do believe that organics is ultimately the way to go. I realize that hydro works just fine, but there has GOT to be a benefit to the fact that, in organics, the entire micro-envrionment is thriving, which can only lead to healthier, stronger plants with better immune systems. In theory the use of use of soil innoculants alone (which you can't properly use in most forms of hydro) should make the uptake of nutrients outperform a hydro garden. Add to that some worm castings, kelp, humates... seems to me that organic plants should ultimately be able to yield more than hydro ones.