Day 7 from seed, discolouration - HPS at fault?

[BET]

Hi guys, here is the pic;




Here is my setup;

Plastic cabinet 30"x20"x15" walls lined with mylar
150HPS
50% John Innes peatless soil
50% perlite
Natural water from the water butt outside (previous used in an outside grow successfully)
Cold attic
Fan drawn exhaust


I've grown from seed (purchased) and kept the seed under CLF's (180W) for about three days then switched to my HPS. A friend grew from HPS from day 1, so I didn't know if it'd be a problem. I have moved into the attic (cold) because its the best space and out of the way. The HPS kept the temp between 75 and 80 with a fan on 24/7 so didn't think it was getting too hot in there. At night however the temps would have dropped significantly because I'm doing 18/6 so between midnight and 6am there is no light and therefore no heat, so temps probably been dropping to around 55 - 60...


I've taken a precaution and gone back to the CFL's for the time being. Any suggestions on what has happened?

The water is direct from mother nature. The soil is a peatless compost with 50% soilerlite mix


Any input much appreciated. Its day 7 from seed and I haven't seen any progress in about 2 days and have since heard that HPS can stunt growth compared to less aggressive lights.

Cheers

BET

 

[BET]

OK, I've read some saying perlite from the start isn't the done thing, but I've seen some growers do it... I'm still thinking its the HPS at the moment... unless peatless soil is a no go? I thought that was OK to use, sure I read it somewhere...

 

[greenmatter]

what is in peatless soil?

 

[BET]

Sorry, its actually Westlands+...

"West+, Composted bark fines and added nutrients"

Hmm, I should have checked the 'added nutrients' bit... is it worth taking some of this compost and soaking it in water for 24 hours to flush nutes out and try again? Or should I consider a different soil all together? Luckily I have 3 more seeds of this if this goes tits up. I was just going under advice from a mate, who did say don't touch miracle grow and he's grown a fair few plants using this type of compost before, but maybe not this same brand

cheers

BET

 

[greenmatter]

don't panic yet. chances are it will do o.k. if it makes it the next few days .. just remember to start the rest of your beans in a starter mix.

 

[BET]

Thanks greenmatter

Should I put the HPS back on? Or leave the CFL's in place? I put them there today incase the HPS was burning them... I'm happy to continue as is, but just want to see if I should stick with the HPS......

Cheers

BET

 

[ForbiddenFruit]

I don't see anything wrong with that seedling, it seems to be right on schedule at seven days, it looks healthy, maybe slightly stunted, but I will explain why.

First the container is relatively large for seed starting, this means it will take longer for the roots to colonize the container, seedlings don't start to grow rapidly until the roots have colonized a sufficient portion of the soil. Normally seedlings shoot up, grow a few leaves, then stall while the roots grow, after the roots have grown, foliage growth picks up again. The larger container you have, the longer this might take.

Second seedlings are more easily affected by environmental changes, like temperature swings, too much water, etc. Its best to keep the seedlings in one area, thats suitable, without changing things too much, they like to put their roots down and get used to one home.

I don't know what peatless soil is, or how many watts your HPS is, but I would say to make sure you give them a wet/dry cycle, make sure you environment is a constant 75 - 80 F, and start applying a 1/4 to 1/2 strength fertilizer, especially if you are using a high wattage HPS because bigger lamps speed up photosynthesis increasing the need for feedings.

 

[BET]

Thanks FF, appreciate the explanation and it makes me feel better. The HPS is 150W, so entry level. I need to think of a way to keep the temp higher at night... I'll do some research.. Hopefully all is well

A friend of mine swears by peatless soil. Its mainly composted tree bark, organic and being mainly bark its high carbon. Not sure what that means for growing cannabis but a friend used it on his (albeit outdoor) grow and he got some serious weight off his best plants.

I'll put the HPS on and leave it a few more days then. Cheers

 

[greenmatter]

not a thing wrong with peatless. it would just be nice to know what the "added nutes" are. the only fertilizer i trust with new beans is ewc. old fashioned maybe but worm poo rocks

 

[BET]

The compost bag is in the shed and its dark and wet outside with no lighting out there. I'll check more closely tomorrow and see what nutes I see on the bag

....worm poo rocks

Growers quote of the day, no doubt

 

[303hydro]

Just would say that regardless of that little yellow spot, the HPS light is definitely not ideal for that little seedling. It really requires MINIMAL LIGHT and may stretch a lot under anything under 5000k.

 

[EddieShoestring]

Just would say that regardless of that little yellow spot, the HPS light is definitely not ideal for that little seedling. It really requires MINIMAL LIGHT and may stretch a lot under anything under 5000k.

this is wrong-cuttings require soft lighting ie flouro's-seedlings like stronger light and will stretch too much if they don't get it. One of the most common mistakes is to under light seedlings-they stretch and stretch and....die. Flouros are ok but you need to keep them fairly close-HPS is great. ATM i have around 100 seedlings about the same size 1m beneath a 600hps. There can be a bit of shock and initial yellowing when you first put them under a hps but they should recover fast and thrive-unless the lamp is too close
the seedling in the pic looks ok to me-maybe a little yellowing beginning at the leaf tip-are they a little soggy
also-the pearlite is fine
good luck
eddieS

 

[BlueberryLovr]

Stretchy lil fella you have there! My babies do great first few weeks under CFLs (minimal stretch, good initial foliage dev.) but I have them real close to the light with moderate airflow to manage temps.

 

[303hydro]

Just would say that regardless of that little yellow spot, the HPS light is definitely not ideal for that little seedling. It really requires MINIMAL LIGHT and may stretch a lot under anything under 5000k.

this is wrong-cuttings require soft lighting ie flouro's-seedlings like stronger light and will stretch too much if they don't get it. One of the most common mistakes is to under light seedlings-they stretch and stretch and....die. Flouros are ok but you need to keep them fairly close-HPS is great. ATM i have around 100 seedlings about the same size 1m beneath a 600hps. There can be a bit of shock and initial yellowing when you first put them under a hps but they should recover fast and thrive-unless the lamp is too close
the seedling in the pic looks ok to me-maybe a little yellowing beginning at the leaf tip-are they a little soggy
also-the pearlite is fine
good luck
eddieS

Yes, there can be too little light and that can also cause stretch. I never said put it in a dark corner but that little seedling doesn't need 250w right on top of it.

I said that HPS is not the ideal light for babies that small( or anything in veg for that matter), and that is correct. A 125w CFL 6500k , a 94w 2ft 4tube t5 6500k, or a 250w Metal Halide of any spec even 4200k would rock that shit much better than the 250w HPS and he would get more nodes, squatter growth, and LESS STRETCH.

 

[BET]

Thanks for all the input. The HPS is actually a 150W, not 250W

I'm going to ScrOG this baby so hopefully the stretching won't matter too much. I'll keep going as is and see how I fare. I don't have any decent lights other than the HPS. I have 4 CFL's but unless I see no gains over the weekend I'll keep them away.

I have kind of addressed the heat issue at night by using a clear plastic container to place over the top of the plant making it enclosed like a greenhouse.

@EddieS It was soggy at one point yes, but OK now.

Thanks again all

 

[BET]

HOLY THREAD REVIVAL!!!

Hey guys, I saw practically no change in size over a few more days from my last post above, so I created a new soil mix of a soil based compost, a small amount of west+ which I used above, and also about 1/3 perlite. The soil based compost had been used to grow blueberries in previously, and the old bush had died over winter and had practically decomposed into the soil. There was no foliage or rootage in there. It had a nice feel between the fingers and was denser than the west+ because it had soil. This was sat outside and has been rained on for about 6 months, so any nutes that were originally in it I suspect were flushed long ago.

After two days I saw a change in the growth and more leaves started appearing, so initially it looked hopeful - however, I'm now at day 24 from seed and it is a meager 3 inches high and has only just started its 3rd set of proper leaves. I guess the change in soil about a week ago slowed it down (it was also put in a much larger pot). I'm still running under HPS (150w) but wondered whether its better to put my 180W's worth of CFL's back in for the time being because progress is slow as hell and I'm wondering whether the HPS is more stress than it needs right now, due to the soil change that is.

The strain is Honey B. There is little info about it that I can find other than it has a loooong flowering period and I saw somewhere that veg period can take a long time... but I don't know if that means the plant grows at a rate of a snail, or that the veg period just takes a long time to bush out but I should still expect to see ample growth?


18/6 light
150W HPS
70/80 degrees during light hours, down to mid 60's at night
Feeding mother natures own supply of water from the water butt, no nutes or ferts
Inside of grow cab is covered in mylar sheet, so I got good reflection, and I also have a fan on to keep air moving


HELP!




BET

 

[BET]

Sorted. My light timer was broken and although it was ticking around the clock, it didn't actually power off the lights, so they were on 24/7. Seeing as the cycle had lights out at midnight for 6 hours, I wasn't up to notice.

 

[libby]

Sorted. My light timer was broken and although it was ticking around the clock, it didn't actually power off the lights, so they were on 24/7. Seeing as the cycle had lights out at midnight for 6 hours, I wasn't up to notice.

So, it was'nt going down to mid sixties at night then.?

At what stage did you add the bottle (green house?) whilst the lights where on? Must of been 100 degrees in the little green house, wonder it never fried.

Don't know if that 24/7 was your problem, i have mine, okay, very, very, slighty bigger, under a 600, and they are fine, in compost, bnq, with perlite, good luck anyway

 

[BET]

So, it was'nt going down to mid sixties at night then.?

At what stage did you add the bottle (green house?) whilst the lights where on? Must of been 100 degrees in the little green house, wonder it never fried.

Don't know if that 24/7 was your problem, i have mine, okay, very, very, slighty bigger, under a 600, and they are fine, in compost, bnq, with perlite, good luck anyway

Nope, no mid 60's at night, but bottle? I haven't added a bottle

I did repot it into a bigger pot with better soil / compost and perlite again. I'm manually turning the lights on and off at the moment. It never gets about 85 absolute max, but the average throughout the day is around 75 - 80

100 degree's and I'd be concerned they were toast LOL. I'm only using a small 150W HPS, I'm thinking of moving onto a 400 if this grow is any sort of success, although using the wrong compost at the start didn't help matters, and then the timer breaking and keeping the lights on 24/7 didn't help growth lol... live and learn


BET

 

[Marquis de Sod]

hate to do this again, but http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Guide

recommends HPS light immediately

your plant looks fine to me, who knows nothing