Cooling system for 12K sealed room?

[abnorml]

I'm starting to build a new room and need some help deciding what type of cooling system to get.

Room size-11ft x 24ft x 8ft
Lighting- (12) 1000w lights in Magnum xxxl 6" hoods, in two rows of 6
Ventilation- 8" inlines pulling from each row of lights

Location- indoor, no walls with with sunshine
Type of room- sealed with co2 tanks
Additional heat-There will be a dehumidifier, possibly a santa fe, or
multiple 65pt portables.

I thought I would get a split a/c and put two heads in the flower room, and one head in my veg room(15ftX12ft & 2000w). But I started reading, and now I'm questioning whether I can cool the flower room with all 3 heads. It looks like the biggest split head is only 30,000btu.
I'm not using window units, and don't want to add one to help out my split system. I want something that will get the job done and not leak smell to the outdoors. Hopefully some hvac guys or people with similar rooms can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

 

[250wscrogger]

For 12k with aircooled hoods a 3 ton (36,000 BTU) single zone ductless mini split would be perfect...
If you're in a 4 season climate a 3 ton can cool up to 14-16K(aircooled)

 

[RedRain]

make sure to get a heat pump mini split if you go that route, they can operate at lower temperatures. most ac systems wont/arent designed to work below 3-5c.

General rule of thumb, is 3000w per ton. 12,000 BTU's = 1 ton.

Are your ballasts in the room as well? Are they digital or magnetic? All these things matter when calculating cooling.

Have you ever considered water cooling?? Low power consumption, rowdy cooling power!!!

 

[abnorml]

Temps are an issue since it can get into the single digits at night during the winter here.
My magnetic ballasts will be located outside of the insulated room.
Redrain- Not sure about the water cooled a/c's. Don't they use a ton of water? Our landlord pays for the water, but I wonder what he would think about that much consumption. Which one would you recommend, so I can research it.

 

[grow nerd]

General rule of thumb, is 3000w per ton. 12,000 BTU's = 1 ton.

They're talking about using air-cooled hoods.

 

[OVERMAN]

usually 4000btus per light 3000btus if aircooled 12000/3000 your going to want a 4 or 5 ton come summer, especially since your going to have heat with dehumidifiers and co2 burners

 

[scurred]

water cool them! ice box heat exchanger

 

[RedRain]

Temps are an issue since it can get into the single digits at night during the winter here.
My magnetic ballasts will be located outside of the insulated room.
Redrain- Not sure about the water cooled a/c's. Don't they use a ton of water? Our landlord pays for the water, but I wonder what he would think about that much consumption. Which one would you recommend, so I can research it.

thermoplus all the way or a water cooled heatexchanger

www.heatexchanger.ca has both of em..at great prices, they also sell mini splits with sealed precharged lines, or even full ac systems so you can install them yourself without a technician or expensive tools.

but if your landlord pays for the water, then i dunno.

what will your landlord think of seeing an outdoor ac unit at the side of your house?

a 3 ton should work with your air cooled hoods, but i would go with a 3.5 ton to plan for very hot weather, or additional dehums or lights inside your room.

make sure you check the operating range of mini splits if you go that route. you will have to get a mini split heat pump with inverter technology. I am pretty sure mini splits will fail to operate at below -10C. You can make a full sized air to air AC work in temps below -60 quite easily. How cold does it get where you are?

 

[+Vibes]

water cooling is something i have been thinking about but maybe not suited for this application.. pretty simple. maybe an extra large radiator and powerful fan coupled with a big cold res (or mountain stream!!!) might do the trick and we would all love you for testing it out

 

[RedRain]

gotta be a closed loop system, or you loose efficiency and add humidity. by having a radiator system with a piped in water source, you are able to have a large coil that has a large surface area, which gives you more area to cool the air and pull the heat from the air and transfer it into the water. the system should have a solenoid to close to not waste water when, the desired temperature is reached.

when you start to waste power running a chiller you have to deal with the heat that a chiller makes, and the power to run it, which totally defeats the whole idea of water cooling.

this idea has been tested and is used in tons of grow rooms. water cooling works, if you apply it correctly

 

[+Vibes]

strange... i guess i'm just more prone to wasting electricity than water? or can the systems you're describing not have a lot of waste water?

how is my diagram not a closed loop? i should have drawn another line connecting r1 and r2? its the same concept. the res could be very well insulated as well as the piping making it more efficient... and i don't think a chiller defeats the purpose necessarily, they're usually 1/2 the power consumption of many other ac choices.

 

[abnorml]

My temps can get down to 5f where I'm at. It seems like I can get a split unit that can deal with the temps, but I can't find a unit bigger than 36,000btu. I'm more afraid of spending 5000 on something that won't cool my room. I wanted to use one head in my veg and the other three heads in the flower, but I'm scared that even if I put all heads in flower it just won't move the air fast enough to keep it cool, and I'll need to add a window unit to my veg.(which I don't want to do)
How well does a split unit cool compared to a window unit or watercooled unit of the same size?
Btw, I'm in a warehouse, so my unit will be on the roof of the building.

 

[grow nerd]

Let me add that 6 in a row especially for 6" is really pushing it IMO.

 

[RedRain]

My temps can get down to 5f where I'm at. It seems like I can get a split unit that can deal with the temps, but I can't find a unit bigger than 36,000btu. I'm more afraid of spending 5000 on something that won't cool my room. I wanted to use one head in my veg and the other three heads in the flower, but I'm scared that even if I put all heads in flower it just won't move the air fast enough to keep it cool, and I'll need to add a window unit to my veg.(which I don't want to do)
How well does a split unit cool compared to a window unit or watercooled unit of the same size?
Btw, I'm in a warehouse, so my unit will be on the roof of the building.

hey man go with an air to air split. give the HVAC company the distance from the outdoor unit on the rooftop your inside airhandler so they can size the line correctly, so your compressor doesnt starve of oil. They will probably have to decrese the suction line size, and increase the liquid line to keep the refrigerant velocity up. Its not ideal for the condensor to be above the evap, but as long as you pipe it correctly then you will be fine. R410a moves so fast that you no longer need to use a p-trap to trap oil, but you want to ensure that the velocity is within spec, so you dont loose efficiency and have a failure. Use a 24v damper and a stat to duct cold air to your veg room when its needed from the plenum off the inside air handler. WHen there is a call for cooling, your veg thermostat will trigger the damper to open to your veg room and allow cool air to be blown inside your room.

Its hard to calculate the heat load on a room when you are air cooling your lights. With so many different ballasts, bulbs and methods you cant 100% narrow it down. It depends on the velocity of the air inside the cool tubes, the CFM of the blowers being used to aircool, the size of the ducts, the length of the ducts, bends, temperature of the outside air around the room, is the room insulated etc etc. You can calculate watts into BTU's and then just match an AC to that, but you have to take into account so may variables when you air cool.

how many watts are in your veg room and flower room?

True Split Units are the Kings, compared to window shakers and mini splits. A true Air to Air split with a full condenser and air handler will give you efficiency and air flow. You can easily run them in -60 weather reliably and safely and still get 100% of your BTU's. Mini splits lack air flow. When you have such a small evaporator and condenser coil such as a window shaker, portable, and mini split you loose efficiency, air flow, but you gain space. You can also have tin work to have damper systems to cool 2 rooms, and you can use a thermostat, to have accurate and precise temperature control. On ductless splits and mini splits, the temperature probe is built into the unit and you cant program your night and day temps. You will also be able to get sealed pre-charged line sets and brass quick connect taps so you can install the system yourself.

I find air cooling to be costly and alot of ducting and runs. I like to keep is simple and to eliminate the heat by using an AC.

You can also use a thermo plus water cooled AC. They use water to condense the refrigerant back to a liquid. You have no outdoor unit, its just 1 piece. They use water, drain to waste, the water has to be cool from your tap and comes out quite warm from the machine. They are very popular in BC because there is no outdoor unit. They come in 3 ton, 3.5 ton,4 ton, 5 ton and 6 ton. They can be made to hang vertically or horizontally and come in single phase or 3 phase.

strange... i guess i'm just more prone to wasting electricity than water? or can the systems you're describing not have a lot of waste water?

how is my diagram not a closed loop? i should have drawn another line connecting r1 and r2? its the same concept. the res could be very well insulated as well as the piping making it more efficient... and i don't think a chiller defeats the purpose necessarily, they're usually 1/2 the power consumption of many other ac choices.

chillers created heat, plus they use an absurd amount of power. you are prob comparing your chiller to a portable AC or a mini split which is terribly inefficient. all the chillers that I know create a ton of heat and draw a ton of amps.
1hp chiller can cool =100gal of water.


I would rather use a large rad type heat exchanger and use water from my tap. The larger the radiator, the greater the surface area for heat transfer. Especially if u had an artesian well, or a stream behind ur house, you can just pipe that in. you would also have to use a solenoid to not waste water when there is not a need for cooling. most tap water is 55f which is quite cool. when you pair that with a large 2 core radiator and a few fans pushing air through them, you have a very efficient cooler, that uses next to no power. But does waste water. Water is cheaper than power.

 

[greenlabel]

Ditch air cooling the hoods and run a 5 ton.