pH dropping EC stable, whats wrong?

[samba]

RDWC
Week 4 flower
Advanced hydroponics of Holland, 1xmicro + 3xbloom
My pH is dripping to like 4.4!!! This is not good, what could I do?

 

[Haps]

Your plants have kicked into full bloom and are feeding heavier. What I do is leave my nute mix and my clear water for addback at their full high ph, then when I add them, it brings the ph back up without me having to adjust it.

 

[samba]

My pH goes down to 4.4 and adding tap water doesn't bring it up to 5.8-6 so I have to use pH UP, but I cant be there every day to do it, so it goes way down before I get to correct it.
Should I just pump the EC higher? Its stable at about 0.9 now...

 

[highonmt]

RDWC
Week 4 flower
Advanced hydroponics of Holland, 1xmicro + 3xbloom
My pH is dripping to like 4.4!!! This is not good, what could I do?

I'll assume haps miss-read your post. If your ph is going Down and EC is stable you may have a bacterial/fungal infection in your rez. When you add Acidic Nutes PH goes Down; When the plants take up the acidic nutrient salts PH goes Up. I'd start by flushing the plants well with pH adjusted water. Mix up a new rez and adjust pH to 5.5-5.8 add bleach at 1ml per 5gal water and keep an eye on ph if it still drops you can up the bleach to 2ml per 5gal. Good luck I had this problem when my white buckets facilitated an algal bloom in my drip system.
HM

 

[snowmanseeds]

Root rot..when ph drops in the res..thats the problem

 

[samba]

I'll assume haps miss-read your post. If your ph is going Down and EC is stable you may have a bacterial/fungal infection in your rez. When you add Acidic Nutes PH goes Down; When the plants take up the acidic nutrient salts PH goes Up. I'd start by flushing the plants well with pH adjusted water. Mix up a new rez and adjust pH to 5.5-5.8 add bleach at 1ml per 5gal water and keep an eye on ph if it still drops you can up the bleach to 2ml per 5gal. Good luck I had this problem when my white buckets facilitated an algal bloom in my drip system.
HM

Shit, I was fearing something like this... Its gonna be a big job, in a small space... well, I don't have an option, so wash wash wash it is...

Root rot..when ph drops in the res..thats the problem

Roots are white as snow

 

[Haps]

In my bloom, consistant for several years now, when plants feed my ph goes way down, I did not misunderstand, and I said what I meant to say. I don't do EC, have never seen any use to it. but I already new how to grow before hydro, so the plants tell me most of what I need to know.

Check the res and roots, how do they look? Roots that have problems show it, res problems should also be easy to see. What size res, is it real small?

 

[DHF]

Although I`m not sure how someone can run RDWC or any other fast hydro setup without monitoring ppm`s , I gotta stand by Brutha Haps post cuz I`ve seen his setups rock for many a yr........but......

Just finished a head butting discussion with Freezerboy trying to explain in a nice way that as plants eat the dinner , ph rises gradually , as ppm`s drop in a dialed hydro system as Highonmt was explaining....

At least that`s what I was a witness to for many yrs , and even said that root rot could be a potential problem in this particular thread bout ppm`s soaring as the bottom dropped out on PH.....

I will say this...... .9 EC/450 ppm`s using .5 conversion and 630 ppm`s on a .7 seems low to me and maybe could be what Hap`s is screamin bout feedin more after stretch is over and they`re in full bloom , but.......

In my krusty buckets that got fed 24/7 like RDWC , as the plants consumed their nutes ph ALWAYS went up from being topped off/added back before a weekly flush and rez change.......

Same with my ebb and flow buckets , being topped off with R/O tanks keeping ph constant , but still with ppm`s dropping on a weekly basis........

Freezerboy claims that in a dialed setup that ph and ppm`s remain constant while adding back with "tapwater" , but the only way this is possible IME is if using higher alkaline tapwater with inherent ppm`s that offset the plant`s eating and ph staying "flat" as he calls it......

Discussion was going nowhere fast comparing apples and oranges , so I bowed out gracefully.......but again......

Many strange things happening for a while since DD`s "mpb`s" and the "undercurrent" revolution lotta folks are jumping on for the old "Yield Train".....

Whole crop loss with rez temps staying mid-60`s , along with ph and ppm`s staying within parameters as well.....Things that make yas go Hmmmm......

There certainly has to be an answer as in light leaks to lower containers as has already been stated , but there has to be more underlying causes as I see more and more folks screamin bout ph , ppm , and rootzone issues in all these new setups.....

I always looked to rootzone temps and light leaks first , but other things are going on unexplained.......Different nutrient makeup`s ?.....

Anyone ?.......DHF............

 

[Scrogerman]

Theres very few reasons for PH drop in this manner. If its dropping by whole points or more on a daily basis then theres a problem, causes major stress on the plants too, its a big drop 1.0+ = many times more acidic etc.

First id flush/leach the pots through with very mild nute solution, EC 0.2 for example.
then i'd try adjusting EC by lowering it, you need to eliminate EC from the equasion, could be as simple as that. if it doesnt work-
9 times out of 10 its gonna be a bacterial issue, especially if res temps are in the mid to high 70's, say 75-80f could pose potential problems with bacterial bloom.(especially in low O2 enviroments)
If after(3days+) adjusting/lowering EC & after leaching media/pots through, you still see the PH drop, Run H2o2/OXY+ at full strength(0.5mls per litre at 17.5% strength) & mineral nutes only(nothing else) for 1 week, always seems to fix the issue for me(bleach will work too, but...its for toilets imo), if it happens & i can usually pin it down to either low O2 in solution & slightly high res temps like 80f, which really promotes anerobic bacteria(the bad guys). Lowering temps to the 68-72f range & increasing DO in res solution + adding the H2o2 would be my next move if i was you. Variables variables variables, there always there & like has been mentioned everyones system & growing style is different!
Do the pot/media flush/leach out & run H2o2 & Nutes(only) for a week! your EC does seem fine but ive seen plants burn to fk with EC0.8 before now in DWC, so watch that, if you know the strains EC needs & have run her before its more than likely bacteria.
Good Luck with it man!

 

[superpedro]

Hey.

Few questions.

RO or tab?
What is the effect on your plants, stunned growth?
How fast is the strain you are growing?
Do you use any additives or H2O2?
How big an amount of the N in your fertilizer is NH4? (should be on the bottle)
What do you use as growth medium? If you use clay, lavarock or similar - how big a volume of it?

 

[highonmt]

In my bloom, consistant for several years now, when plants feed my ph goes way down, I did not misunderstand, and I said what I meant to say. I don't do EC, have never seen any use to it. but I already new how to grow before hydro, so the plants tell me most of what I need to know.

Check the res and roots, how do they look? Roots that have problems show it, res problems should also be easy to see. What size res, is it real small?

Haps that is very odd from a water chemistry point of view. My comments were not meant to be disparaging but rather to point out what seemed to be a mistake; my apologies.It seems quite normal and logical in managing nutrient solutions that adding acidic salts drops ph and removing them increases it. I grew in soiless media without even knowing what an TDS meter was for decades, just ph strips. I am rather new to hydroponics but in every grow to this point adding nutrients to my ro water drives ph down to @4.5-4.9 in grow or flower before adjustment with ph up, as my plants use nutrients and ec drops ph rises. The one exception was when I had an algal bloom. Do you use tap water for your grows? also what nutrient line? Do you run a sterile rez? I am really curious as it seems that you are creating an acidic buffer solution when your nutrients are consumed.
HM

 

[samba]

Hey.

Few questions.

RO or tab?

Tab @ ec=0.3 pH=7

What is the effect on your plants, stunned growth?

No, they actually look ok, little light under the lights, so I put the light higher

How fast is the strain you are growing?

8weeks, going @5, its black domina

Do you use any additives or H2O2?

No, just basic ferts, had problems with adds and never had gain, so dont bother using them,K.I.S.S

How big an amount of the N in your fertilizer is NH4? (should be on the bottle)

NH4???

What do you use as growth medium? If you use clay, lavarock or similar - how big a volume of it?

Clay, 0.6 gallons in the hole system, and they don't touch the water just holds the plants up in 4" netpots

 

[samba]

Check the res and roots, how do they look? Roots that have problems show it, res problems should also be easy to see. What size res, is it real small?

Roots are white, no rot, rez is about 100 gallons

 

[samba]

Theres very few reasons for PH drop in this manner. If its dropping by whole points or more on a daily basis then theres a problem, causes major stress on the plants too, its a big drop 1.0+ = many times more acidic etc.

First id flush/leach the pots through with very mild nute solution, EC 0.2 for example.
then i'd try adjusting EC by lowering it, you need to eliminate EC from the equasion, could be as simple as that. if it doesnt work-
9 times out of 10 its gonna be a bacterial issue, especially if res temps are in the mid to high 70's, say 75-80f could pose potential problems with bacterial bloom.(especially in low O2 enviroments)
If after(3days+) adjusting/lowering EC & after leaching media/pots through, you still see the PH drop, Run H2o2/OXY+ at full strength(0.5mls per litre at 17.5% strength) & mineral nutes only(nothing else) for 1 week, always seems to fix the issue for me(bleach will work too, but...its for toilets imo), if it happens & i can usually pin it down to either low O2 in solution & slightly high res temps like 80f, which really promotes anerobic bacteria(the bad guys). Lowering temps to the 68-72f range & increasing DO in res solution + adding the H2o2 would be my next move if i was you. Variables variables variables, there always there & like has been mentioned everyones system & growing style is different!
Do the pot/media flush/leach out & run H2o2 & Nutes(only) for a week! your EC does seem fine but ive seen plants burn to fk with EC0.8 before now in DWC, so watch that, if you know the strains EC needs & have run her before its more than likely bacteria.
Good Luck with it man!

I think its bacteria as well, its most likely.
Rez temps are in mid 60f
I have a bottle of h2o2, but I hate to use it, but I'll have to I guess.
I think I'll have to cleaning everything next time I go there, fuck, its gonna be a PITA

 

[Haps]

What I posted first here is spot on, and is what is happening. I believe the chaps here who say their PH goes up when plants feed, but in over 6 years if hydro, 5 different hydro style systems, my PH always goes down gradually as plants metabolism increases in bloom. I did use PPMs the first two years, but stopped as it had no real value to my op. I run consistant nute regimines, and can tell by the leaf how things are going, and what the gals need. The skin on my hand will tell me if the water is over 70, just by repetition.

My water is about 8ph, and I leave it that way, the only time I adjust ph is with the first res fill that the new gals are going into. In my tidal systems, 5.5-6.5 keeps the gals dancing and the roots happy. No worries samba, add some up if you need to, it does not hurt.

Bet you fellas who go up with feeding have low ph water to start with don't ya?
H

 

[samba]

What I posted first here is spot on, and is what is happening. I believe the chaps here who say their PH goes up when plants feed, but in over 6 years if hydro, 5 different hydro style systems, my PH always goes down gradually as plants metabolism increases in bloom. I did use PPMs the first two years, but stopped as it had no real value to my op. I run consistant nute regimines, and can tell by the leaf how things are going, and what the gals need. The skin on my hand will tell me if the water is over 70, just by repetition.

My water is about 8ph, and I leave it that way, the only time I adjust ph is with the first res fill that the new gals are going into. In my tidal systems, 5.5-6.5 keeps the gals dancing and the roots happy. No worries samba, add some up if you need to, it does not hurt.

Bet you fellas who go up with feeding have low ph water to start with don't ya?
H

I did ad some pH+, will see whats happened in a week next time I go there. I drove the pH to 7.
hmm,how do I explain this...
The system was all in 4.4pH, the waterpump runs 15min every 3 hours(to avoid flooding,in case of leak), half the volume of the system is in the REZ, half in the buckets, so I drove the pH in the REZ to 7 with pH+, hoping it would equalize to 6.

 

[highonmt]

"bet you fellas who go up with feeding have low ph water to start with don't ya?"

My water is pH 6.9-7.2 and <10ppm ro water. I Add nutrients 4ish ph, add ph up to 5.3. my system is topped up with ro water. My tap water varies a bit by the season but is about 8ish and I see the same effect when running 50/50 ro and tap water plants grow fast ph goes up. I don't doubt what you're seeing or you abilities as a grower which are obvious it is just an interesting observation. you go from ph 8 add nutrients and adjust down?? to 5.5 then as your plants eat the stuff that drove your ph down, your ph drops further. AAh the mysteries of water chemistry. Samba if your roots look good and your plants look good don't stress but h202 won't hurt just in case.
HM

 

[abuldur]

hey samba,

Sorry to ask this but can it be that your ph pen or what ever u use as a ph reading device is inaccurate ?

Haps this is a strange hydro behavior in my experience ph rises as plant feed but this might be related to your tapwater as DHF pointed out.Do you use beneficial bacteria in your grows ? Do you reuse your growing media ?

peace

 

[Scrogerman]

Hydroponics Basics - How to Pilot your Grow Charting PH & EC.

PH Up & EC Down = Hungry plants, This is how i like to run my DWC or NFT/Hydro in general, on the lean side(EC) & i watch my PH drift 'Up' 0.3 points in 2 or 3 days. Plants stay healthy, hungry & grow positively with no burn & great colour.

PH Down & EC Up = Overfed plants.
Overfertilisation has a negative effect on the plants & will in most cases reduce overall yields, if i see my PH swinging/drifting down, i check my EC, if it has risen i know my plants are being overfed, before any physical signs like tip-burn are observed, overfeeding is damaging & stressfull to the plant, & it comes with a whole host of other negatives too.

There are many other considerations & variables to consider, evaporation, salt accumilation/phosphate build up etc etc & a whole host of other shit/variables to think about & keep in check.
If you've considered & checked everything then the above PH & EC charting method is correct & is how we 'Pilot' our Hydroponic systems/grows, using this method we can acctually listen to our plants needs, its a fact & has always worked for me!


Best of Luck

btw, my Tap water PH is 8.0 approx & the EC is around 0.1, its quality soft water, tastes & smells good too(not like a swimming pool like other areas), generally if water smells & tastes good, it usually is.

I would consider using a header tank & auto top up system, very basic, very simple to set up & cheap. You could work-out the top up solutions PH & set it/leave it high. Work out how many gal's/litres of top up is needed to equalise the RDWC systems PH & set the Ballcock float accordingly, simple automated top up, with practice you'll get it worked out/sussed! tbh ive never used one but if i was away a week at a time like you Samba i would consider using one. Using a Bigger Res(x 2) might help too if you cant be bothered with an auto top up.

 

[Bonavendura]

I totaly agree with scrogerman , keep in mind that in NOT auto top off systems
like a dwc bucket we measure the EC values after toping off the amount
of water that the plants drinkup .