good led light?

[Voidling]

Sorry, it should be: www.hydrogardensandlights.com

Their picture showing how many watts and the watts listed in the description don't match.

I would rather the companies tell you exactly what bin of LEDs are on their light so you can look them up and see how they are yourself. Cree XPE, Osram Golden Dragon Plus, Luxeon Rebel II are all good brands. As long as they don't use cheapo Chinese knock-off LEDs the light should be good for growing.

I build my own lights because I want the best available bins that run efficient and bright. Also, the size is customized to fit my area. You are restricted to growing only under the light since they lose a lot of penetration the farther they are away. So they are only financially beneficial in small cabinets and micro grows right now. The good LEDs are still $4-8 per LED (depending on color). Once that price drops, they become way more economical and would make more sense to compete on the 1k Watt level. Right now its still cheaper to just use 1k HID if you are going to grow larger scale grows.

So what bins do you use or how could I find them? Where is the cheapest place you have found them for? How much did your led's cost you? I can do the electrical work, I just don't want to have to do all the research all over again if there's already a base I can go from. I'm making a cab a bit bigger than yours so I'd have to ramp up the numbers but I want to see how much it'd cost me. I've got separate mother/clone/veg and flower planned so can make the lights specific to veg and flower. I would probably make several small ones instead of one big one for flower. Troubleshooting later on would be easier, plus adjust to different heights based off of plants.

As for using leds, I've got three 55 watt t5 lights in my room that already boost my room temp up to 80 with the heater set to 70. Summer will kill me with 100+ degree temps outside.

 

[sm0k4]

So what bins do you use or how could I find them? Where is the cheapest place you have found them for? How much did your led's cost you? I can do the electrical work, I just don't want to have to do all the research all over again if there's already a base I can go from. I'm making a cab a bit bigger than yours so I'd have to ramp up the numbers but I want to see how much it'd cost me. I've got separate mother/clone/veg and flower planned so can make the lights specific to veg and flower. I would probably make several small ones instead of one big one for flower. Troubleshooting later on would be easier, plus adjust to different heights based off of plants.

As for using leds, I've got three 55 watt t5 lights in my room that already boost my room temp up to 80 with the heater set to 70. Summer will kill me with 100+ degree temps outside.

Red, 625nm, DOMINANT KNova NKX-NGG
Red, 660nm, OSRAM LH W5AM
Blue, 470nm, OSRAM LB W5AM
White, 6500K, OSRAM LUW W5AM
Kapton Tape
THERM PAD 5519S 3M Digikey #: 3M9593-ND
3M 1181 copper foil tape, 1/4 inch wide
wire
solder

Sources for these LEDs that I found are Digikey, Mouser, or Customhydronutrients.com.

 

[sm0k4]

I'll also help you out a bit more. Take this LED light calculator. It might make your life easier.

Well, I would if I could attach zip files. Grab it here

 

[sm0k4]

Sorry, I can't resist..... THER ISN"T ! GOOD ONE. LEDS are a fad that will pass in time and they are a joke.

Sorry, I can't resist.

To be this naive and think that LED is a fad makes me kind of angry yet I laugh about it. Most people are ignorant to the fact that things evolve and change. They are stuck in their usual tried and true ways and don't want to succumb to something newer and possibly better.

I won't get into a pissing contest but I can tell LED will replace HID soon enough. It isn't there yet but to say you cannot grow with LED is just plain false. The cost is just not worth it for large grows at this time.

LED isn't bad, the companies that have no business building LED lights and hype them as being HID killers are creating the problem. Sure, a 1000 Watt might give bigger nugs right now, but for a lot of us, we don't care about size of nugs. We care about quality herb we don't have to pay for that costs us less money to grow. Its already been proven many times that 1 gram per watt is easily achievable with LED. What more proof do you need?

All this is possible with LED in a small personal setup.

 

[RoomRaider]

lol, that post cracked me up too.

to say leds are not good for growing is pure ignorance plain and simple. you can go into the science all you want, the fact of the matter is I have grown with leds and the quality of the bud is on par with HIDs, if not a little better (more resined and stinky).

The ONLY downfall to l.e.ds right now is the price, as of now leds grow some primo chronic. period. If leds cost the same as fluros no one would be using hids.

Just like every new technology the price will go down, and when the price goes down HIDS will be obsolete plain and simple.

 

[Azeotrope]

You folks need to study some more

.

Red, 625nm, DOMINANT KNova NKX-NGG
Red, 660nm, OSRAM LH W5AM
Blue, 470nm, OSRAM LB W5AM
White, 6500K, OSRAM LUW W5AM
Kapton Tape
THERM PAD 5519S 3M Digikey #: 3M9593-ND
3M 1181 copper foil tape, 1/4 inch wide
wire
solder

Note the monochromatic nature of those diodes listed. You can't cover the sun's spectrum well enough with LED. Plus you don't seem to understand that their light emissions are like a lazer as in.... A beam. The light is not mixed, diffused well. You may be able to grow plants under them, but they are far from what you could do with other lights.

To the plants it is like shining a bunch of different colored lazers. Move away and you see each one distinctly. So each part of the leaf matter/surface is seeing a very narrow NM band and that is not good for quality/efficient photosynthesis.

Funny, I have an engineering degree, 4 specialty & journeyman electrical liscenses between 3 states, a boilermakers liscense, a journeyman plumbers liscense in 2 states and medical welding certs in 2 states and I am arguing with you guys.......... I'm done. Go give LED girl a kiss why don't you! Oh and a 2yr technical college degree in HVAC and industrial refrigeration... I think I kind of get this science stuff. IDK maybe not.... Rant is over go play with your leggo lights.

 

[Voidling]

Thanks sm0k4.

I've got a combined chamber for mother, rooting clones, and short veg. only veg until room is made in the flower chamber once a week or so. I think it's going to be 20" wide 18" deep 30" high. Not sure if one panel would do fine or if I would be better off doing two with slightly different mix. Flowering takes place elsewhere so these panels would be for the mother/clone/veg only.

What mix of colors in what amount would you use for this if you were doing it? I'm trying to get a rough estimate on price to see if I can do it. I'm having heat problems so really don't want to go with cfl's for this if I don't need to. Running pl-l in flower for the time being but hopefully can get money to get some leds in there as well and cut down on the amount of pl-ls to rid of some of my heat.

Thanks

Edit:
I downloaded the file but I have nothing to open it with. I'll have to download open office and try it when I get to some broadband connection

 

[RoomRaider]

You folks need to study some more

Nah, I decided to actually test one.

You may be able to grow plants under them, but they are far from what you could do with other lights.

The plants are of same quality if not better, the yield is slightly lacking. But like I said, when the price goes down it will not matter (and as the price goes down the efficiency will most likely go up).

Funny, I have an engineering degree, 4 specialty & journeyman electrical liscenses between 3 states, a boilermakers liscense, a journeyman plumbers liscense in 2 states and medical welding certs in 2 states and I am arguing with you guys.......... I'm done.

Nice credentials, but have you actually tried LEDs?

Go give LED girl a kiss why don't you!

I heard she was selling overpriced, there is suppose to be a u.s. based manufacturer selling the the lights for cheaper. I would probally check that out.

Like your avatar. Sheldon is a genius, knows all the studies and technical data, but when it comes to real world application and data, he is completely clueless. LEDs are good flowering lights, just too damn expensive to make them viable.

I'm finished also, made all my points. Hopefully whoever reads it will actually try a light before passing judgment.(if they are willing to shell out the $$$) Like all those people saying autoflowers are weak garbage plants for noobs. LMAO

 

[sm0k4]

Yep, to each their own. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I am no light scientist but I know plants don't care what the light source is. They react to the photons absorbed of certain wavelengths.

The issue with new technology is that the mixture of light needs to be in a good ratio for growth rates. For a plants to absorb photons of different wavelengths, it somewhat depends on the light density they are receiving. One of the ways to improve the plants lighting is by optimizing the light level and the spectrum in order to get the max absorption (and less reflection) of photons possible.

LED is still a new science for growing. I did bother to take the time to research and read plenty of data sheets before building my light. I am worried about dense nugs since I never used LED before, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I've seen plenty of DIY light grows and some impressed me enough to want to try to perfect a design of my own.

 

[sm0k4]

Thanks sm0k4.

I've got a combined chamber for mother, rooting clones, and short veg. only veg until room is made in the flower chamber once a week or so. I think it's going to be 20" wide 18" deep 30" high. Not sure if one panel would do fine or if I would be better off doing two with slightly different mix. Flowering takes place elsewhere so these panels would be for the mother/clone/veg only.

What mix of colors in what amount would you use for this if you were doing it? I'm trying to get a rough estimate on price to see if I can do it. I'm having heat problems so really don't want to go with cfl's for this if I don't need to. Running pl-l in flower for the time being but hopefully can get money to get some leds in there as well and cut down on the amount of pl-ls to rid of some of my heat.

Thanks

Edit:
I downloaded the file but I have nothing to open it with. I'll have to download open office and try it when I get to some broadband connection

That file is just a tool to play with different ratios and not have to recalculate everything. Handy when designing a light with the coverage per square foot you want.

For Veg:
Red seems to promote the stretching.
White is essential for missing wavelengths like yellow and green.
Blue promotes tighter growth.

For 20"x18" of area? You probably only need 20-30 watts of LED. Not much red is needed for veg either unless you want some stretch.

Maybe about 20 LEDs total will do your size well in veg.

For the whole light build in DIY it would be ballpark $150. Depends on heat sinks. LEDs would be around $80 for 20 good LEDs.

I might start with
8 Osram LUW W5AM whites
7 Osram LD W5AM blues
5 Dominant KNova NKX-NGG

Digikey, Mouser, or CustomHydroNutrients.com sell these. Shipping delays through CustomHydro right now though since they come from Spain until next month or so. But they have best price for small quantities.

Proper distribution of each color while maintaining similar string voltages is the tricky part if you only want to run with 1 driver.

 

[sm0k4]

A couple of my overall design pics to give you an idea. If you can solder you can do this. Its a home made heat sink from 1/16" aluminum sheet stock and 3/4" leg aluminum angle stock that is also 1/16".

Temp of heat sink stays around 90 F during day. Temp 1" below light is 83 F. Bottom of cab is 77 F. Intake ports on top near light, exhaust near floor to heat my cab. LED radiates heat up, makes sense to redirect it down to the plants and make them happy.


That thermal pad doesn't need to be that big either. First time I tried it but I put a piece just the size of the LED down and it performed just the same.

Thermal pad is from Digikey. Part number 3M9593-ND

Since I made the heat sink from scraps, it cost me around $120-130 for everything else, including supplies to build my micro PC box.

 

[Voidling]

Thank you again. I missed your response here and asked similar question in another thread you're talking on. Was afraid the argument in this thread took over and then ditched the thread.

I can solder, I've done a large amount with the push through leds. Putting them on a heatsink, thermal pad and isolation stuff is all new to me.

I uploaded that file to google documents so I could use it there. It said I needed 86+ watts for that size which made me nearly scrap the idea immediately.

So more white than either blue or red? (found my answer on this one in another thread ) Not sure what you mean by proper distribution while maintaining string voltages. The insomnia is getting to me and having trouble thinking it out, I was thinking it wouldn't matter what order they were in. Guess I got more to look into.

I saw the prices were a good bit cheaper at CustomHydroNutrients but also saw the shipping time. Does Knna have a website yet? Would love to support him plus get one of his drivers he was talking about. Looks like the driver at customhydro can't do more than 10 leds on a string. Not sure about getting the right bins at digikey or mouser either.

That's good news on the temps. My heater is set to 70 and with 3 pl-l lights on my room stays a constant 79 degrees. I don't want to put in cfl and give off even more heat if I could afford to get led, was thinking $100 or so as it'd cost me $50 for cfl's.

Thank you for all your help

 

[Weezard]

In theory, theory and practice are the same. . .

In theory, theory and practice are the same. . .

You folks need to study some more

And some would do well to study less and question what they read a bit more.

Note the monochromatic nature of those diodes listed. You can't cover the sun's spectrum well enough with LED.

Nor do I wish to, or need to.

Plus you don't seem to understand that their light emissions are like a lazer as in.... A beam. The light is not mixed, diffused well. You may be able to grow plants under them, but they are far from what you could do with other lights.

I disagree.
In practice, it has proved otherwise

And they are not really laserlike.
Yes they are narrow band, but they are not "coherent", or indeed, even monochromatic.
It's almost a bell curve actually.
Perhap you do not understand how flexible plants can be.

To the plants it is like shining a bunch of different colored lazers. Move away and you see each one distinctly. So each part of the leaf matter/surface is seeing a very narrow NM band and that is not good for quality/efficient photosynthesis.

Gotta disagree.
The efficiency is impressive and they blend quite well.

Funny,

(In this, we do agree.)

I have an engineering degree, 4 specialty & journeyman electrical liscenses between 3 states, a boilermakers liscense, a journeyman plumbers liscense in 2 states and medical welding certs in 2 states and I am arguing with you guys.......... I'm done. Go give LED girl a kiss why don't you! Oh and a 2yr technical college degree in HVAC and industrial refrigeration... I think I kind of get this science stuff. IDK maybe not.

Well, not yet, but if you are open minded, and flexible, you may.

... Rant is over go play with your leggo lights.

Wow!
I no got none of dem kine papers. <sniff>
No got even a GED.

All I got is killer bud for half the watts;


No green, no UV, no Fr. no foolin.
Jus' 660nm an' 460nm.

Suggest you entertain the notion that you have accepted the written opinions of those that have never actually attempted to grow anything with di-chroic light.

I have been doing so for years, and can assure you, in practice, they are more than adequate and much more productive than HPS watt for watt.

Disclaimer:
My lights are not available commercially and I'm not selling anything.
Jus' saying, that in this opinion, based on my actual experience, you are incorrect in your reasoning.

Aloha,
Weezard

 

[Voidling]

@Weezard
Are those pics from the 15 watt emitter lights you built? Either way if it's only from two colors maybe I'm over thinking trying to get a mix right.

 

[sm0k4]

Love you Weezard.

I do find it odd you left out white.

Any reason for this? Plants don't mind just red and blue? It was my understanding that a mixture of wavelengths in white helps with the photon absorption of other wavelengths....

Just tryin to find a reasoning, if it just works and thats how you roll, thats understandable also. Don't fix what isn't broke

 

[sm0k4]

Thank you again. I missed your response here and asked similar question in another thread you're talking on. Was afraid the argument in this thread took over and then ditched the thread.

I can solder, I've done a large amount with the push through leds. Putting them on a heatsink, thermal pad and isolation stuff is all new to me.

I uploaded that file to google documents so I could use it there. It said I needed 86+ watts for that size which made me nearly scrap the idea immediately.

So more white than either blue or red? (found my answer on this one in another thread ) Not sure what you mean by proper distribution while maintaining string voltages. The insomnia is getting to me and having trouble thinking it out, I was thinking it wouldn't matter what order they were in. Guess I got more to look into.

I saw the prices were a good bit cheaper at CustomHydroNutrients but also saw the shipping time. Does Knna have a website yet? Would love to support him plus get one of his drivers he was talking about. Looks like the driver at customhydro can't do more than 10 leds on a string. Not sure about getting the right bins at digikey or mouser either.

That's good news on the temps. My heater is set to 70 and with 3 pl-l lights on my room stays a constant 79 degrees. I don't want to put in cfl and give off even more heat if I could afford to get led, was thinking $100 or so as it'd cost me $50 for cfl's.

Thank you for all your help

If you want a crash course on hooking together LEDs into a working circuit, you must find out how many LEDs you need to achieve your Wattage. Then you figure out how to space them out so they provide even color distribution BUT also have each total string of LEDs use the same source voltage.

So if you have 20 LEDs, I would think about four rows of 5 at first. You would lay them out then add the forward voltage drops of each LED. Blues/Whites are usually 3.2 volts or so, reds are around 2.2 volts. So 3 reds and 2 blues would be (3*2.2)+(2*3.2) = 11V. This line of LEDs would use 11 volts. Now calculate the next row......

All together you LEDs might use up 45 volts. If you want to, you can get a 48 volt driver that you plug into the wall and run the whole light in series from that. If you want to split strings up and run in parallel on one driver, that is where similar string voltages comes into play.

If I only had a 24V driver I would have to take two rows of LEDs and hook them in series to use up 22 volts. Then run that string to the driver. So the same for the other two rows. This will give you two seperate strings running at 24 volts but off of the same driver.

Hope that helps. Researching drivers and how to hook up the circuit is important.

 

[guest456mpy]

Yo Weezard!

Dem Math-durbators are just hold'n themselves down, eh?
If dey only knew, still no skin off our noses!

Good to be back, squawk at you later.

Hempy

 

[guest456mpy]

@sm0k4

I will only speak for myself here, but R and B is all that is needed. Both are colors which can manipulate the behavior of plants. There may be some advantage to other wavelengths, but I have not continued further development beyond 15 watt RB arrays.

Please note that white LEDs are not direct emitting devices, but have a monochromatic emitter with a white emitting phosphor coated lens. The white is emitted when a photon strikes the phosphor coating . This makes white LEDs inherently less electronically efficient. It remains to be seen if the white is more efficient than RB arrays in an actual grow.

My $.02 worth anyway...

As usual always look'n to hear what Weeze has to say on the matter!

 

[VerdantGreen]

first off, i bet azeotrope has never used an LED light to grow a plant

as for comparison to hps, having used both, i would say that LED's are 10-20% more efficient than hps for the wattage actually used - so you would need 800+W of good quality LED to get near a 1000 hps. they will only get better too.

white is a good addition to the spectrum, but i had one custom made with 10-15% green 525nm in the spectrum. it works great.
far red is important for flowering response.

VG

 

[guest456mpy]

Originally posted by VerdantGreen...

as for comparison to hps, having used both, i would say that LED's are 10-20% more efficient than hps for the wattage actually used - so you would need 800+W of good quality LED to get near a 1000 hps. they will only get better too.

Yeah, that's pretty close to my estimate, Verdant. When my full 560 watt array is going I am probably close to 800 watts HID. It's all about the photons, LOL. The initial claims by some early LED literature and advertisement did nothing to add to the legitimacy of practical use, in my estimation.