Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[Greensub]

Oh... I remember now...

as I was saying... the mind is a representation of brain function... Consciousness is a function of the mind. How does a single celled organism have a brain? (they don't), if they don't have a brain, how can they have a mind? If they don't have a mind how can they have a consciousness?

 

[southflorida]

apparently we are having a semantic argument over the word consciousness.

"Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our
consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar
and most mysterious aspect of our lives."

It is more this, than anything else in that definition. I see consciousness
as the substance from which everything is created inside of this
consciousness. As far as I'm concerned, this consciousness itself
can be a one cell organism, that is really f*cking smart and that
created all these other virtual realities, that seem large to all the
other parts of this consciousness. It is not about size, size is only
a part of the rule-set in which an individuated consciousness lives
in, like you and me think we are a certain amount of feet, and that
the earth is so far from the sun, etc.

Since this is a virtual reality, where everything is pretty much
perfect, except for a hurricane, or a war, or the crisis that happens
once in a while to force us to evolve a little more when we get
too lazy, any distance can be created by the computer that is
running all of this stuff.

It is not really a large step or difference from what happens in your
computer. The virtual realities it can create with the right program
installed is pretty much what consciousness is doing.

I mean let'sbe honest, can you really imagine that the caveman
evolved to where we are right now with the digital computers and
everything all by HIMSELF? That is really absurd, no matter how one
looks at it. I know we humans are arrogant, but from the cave to the
computer age in like 10,000 years?

That is way too funny. This is why the dinosaurs got taken out,
and replaced by us as the next Artificial Intelligence Objects.

They were just too violent and obviously didn't want to evolve,
were not profitable/valuable to consciousness. This is why NOT ONE
of them bastards survived.

but did it have awareness of self... or are you humanizing a single-celled organism?

It was a copy of every other cell
in consciousness, just a piece of data, just like the one that is in
your computer, and in your brain. There is nothing but data. This
is what Consciousness IS...data, and it is being organized by
evolution, and in order to do this, it is multiplying this data, the
same structure over and over, with different rule-sets, different
algorithms. That is the only thing that is different, the rules of the
game. Just like every game, it wouldn't mean nothing without the
rules. Imagine American Football without rules.

What the f*ck would you get? A bunch of overpaid jerk-offs and
a ball...right? In the end, there would be a few broken bones and
necks, but what would they do without the rules? It would be like
rugby...lol...and even rugby has rules...I think

congratulations... I'm not.

If you were, you would be with the program already and would be
seriously thinking how to evolve yourself out of that freaking mess

 

[Madrus Rose]

I was talking about the scientists assuming that there was something,
and then the Big Bang happened. They never explained what the hell
that was and where it came from. This means that their whole theory
assumes that there was always something. And that at one point,
all of a sudden, from nowhere it just blew up!

Well that's not entirely true but understand that Albert Einstein & all that he intuited back in the first few decades of the 20th century was based on a view of a "Universe" comprised of just our one Milky Way galaxy . The Big Bang Singularity theory was advocated by Monsignor Georges Lemaître a catholic priest & around early on but even Einstein could not get his mind around it .

Monsignor Georges Lemaître
http://www.google.com/search?q=big+bang+priest%27&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

For some time, it was believed meaningless to speculate on what happened before the Big Bang, but more recently, by linking ideas from relativity and quantum theory it has been possible to postulate theories such as Alan Guth's "inflationary cosmology", to provide fairly plausible pictures of possible events before the Big Bang. But the challenge of finding a true unification of general relativity and quantum theory still remains.

* More on Alan Guth, professor of theoretical physics @ MIT ,
http://www.google.com/search?q=alan...ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

This part explained why the scientists don't want to explain that
they know that consciousness is all that there is, and that this
world we are living in is a virtual world that consciousness created
in order to evolve itself.

Again not being fair here , you might want to recheck on what David Bohm's theories on this in my post here ...he was considered to be one more very fascinating & brilliant idea men of 20th century physics .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4136593#post4136593

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]He cited evidence from both theories that support a new paradigm of a more interrelated, fluid, and less absolute basis of existence, one in which mind is an active participant. "Information contributes fundamentally to the qualities of substance." He discussed forms, fields, superconductivity, wave function and electron behavior. "Wave function, which operates through form, is closer to life and mind...The electron has a mindlike quality."[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]In his groundbreaking theory of "wholeness and the implicate order", Bohm proposed a new model of reality that was a revolutionary challenge to physics. In this model, as in a hologram, any element contains enfolded within itself the totality of its universe. Bohm's concept of totality included both matter and mind. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Bohm also mentioned the dangers we face as a society and the changes we will have to make in our thinking in order to have a future. He said we need a more holistic approach to the ecological problem and must find something else in life besides economic growth; if it continues unchecked, it will destroy the planet.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The emerging change in consciousness is the challenge and the key: "Our future depends on whether we feel like part of this one whole or whether we feel we're separate."[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[southflorida]

Oh... I remember now...

as I was saying... the mind is a representation of brain function... Consciousness is a function of the mind. How does a single celled organism have a brain? (they don't), if they don't have a brain, how can they have a mind? If they don't have a mind how can they have a consciousness?

Consciousness is primary, the mind is secondary, the brain is tertiary,
the choices that this brain makes while in this virtual reality is
quaternary, and the lessons you learn from the feedback is
quinary. These lessons, the evolutionary steps taken by you, are
what you are here for, why consciousness has chosen to put you
where you are right now.

Everything that happened to you up to this point in your life, has
happened only so that you can grow and evolve. That is the only
reason you are here in this simulation. There is no other fundamental
reason, this IS it. Evolve or Die, you (and me, and everyone else)
basically have these two fundamental choices.

If we don't evolve (every one of the 6,892,800,000 +/- folks currently
living in this virtual world) the plug will be pulled. We are
currently alive because we are profitable/valuable enough for
consciousness to keep this virtual simulation game going.

Don't you understand that it doesn't care, this is why we have wars
and all kinds of other cruel shit going on, and that has gone on before,
and will go one as long as it needs to, and why we have love, caring,
humility, compassion, beauty, art, etc.....because consciousness is
learning all this stuff in order to evolve to a higher organization and
to become as loving as possible.

This is why everything is better in the world when we work together,
when we love and care for other people, and when we live our lives
thinking about something besides our egotistical-selves.

 

[southflorida]

@Madrus Rose: In my examples I'm talking about what the average
scientists will admit on the 9PM news, of course. The stuff that
the masses believe, not the stuff we are talking about in this thread.

If a scientist that is being paid by the US government came straight
out and said some of the things that are known today, he would get
fired and possibly put in jail, and would be made to look like he went
completely 100% mad before he gave the interview.

 

[southflorida]

Okay folks, it's been a lot of fun, but the guards are pulling me
away from the computer, saying the time has come for them to
tie me back up, and take me back to my padded cell. See you
all tomorrow, I hope, because if they find that I've been posting
this crazy stuff about consciousness and virtual realities, they
are going to throw away the key and never let me out again,
at least that's what they said the last time they caught me
writing crazy shit like this on the computer

 

[HempKat]

Okay, how about if you lived in 1870 and I told you about mobile
phones and internet? That would make a small difference wouldn't it?

I wouldn't think anything because I wasn't even alive in 1870.

 

[HempKat]

The majority of people I directly have known have held one or
the other. Maybe you have known some people that have a third
or fourth view. By this, I mean that the people I have known have
believed that it is God that is creating everything, or that Nature
is creating everything. To me, it has always seemed that these
were one and the same, but that thought would lean more toward
the first. There might be the third view that say the don't know,
but I would doubt this, because human nature is to know, and
living in the not-knowing is quite uncomfortable.

Oh so we're just talking about the people you know? What that's a couple three hundred people? A couple of thousand at most? So you expect me to just accept your blanket view of the world based on .0000003% of the population? Good luck with that.

 

[HempKat]

I think that you are misunderstanding me. You said that it is unfair to call the future a creation of the mind. I am saying that the future can only exist in the mind. I can't respond to what you thought you meant, I only have the words you give me to work with

But I'm not telling you what I thought I meant, I'm telling you what I meant. Whereas you're taking your miscomprehension of what I meant and are trying to tell me that's what I meant.

I replied to someone saying that the future is a creation of the mind. I'm saying it is not a creation of the mind. The future is whatever it will be. It's the concept of future that is a creation of the mind. Just as all concepts of time are, the moments those concepts point to though are very real.

 

[Greensub]

Consciousness is primary, the mind is secondary, the brain is tertiary,
the choices that this brain makes while in this virtual reality is
quaternary, and the lessons you learn from the feedback is
quinary. These lessons, the evolutionary steps taken by you, are
what you are here for, why consciousness has chosen to put you
where you are right now.

Everything that happened to you up to this point in your life, has
happened only so that you can grow and evolve. That is the only
reason you are here in this simulation. There is no other fundamental
reason, this IS it. Evolve or Die, you (and me, and everyone else)
basically have these two fundamental choices.

If we don't evolve (every one of the 6,892,800,000 +/- folks currently
living in this virtual world) the plug will be pulled. We are
currently alive because we are profitable/valuable enough for
consciousness to keep this virtual simulation game going.

Don't you understand that it doesn't care, this is why we have wars
and all kinds of other cruel shit going on, and that has gone on before,
and will go one as long as it needs to, and why we have love, caring,
humility, compassion, beauty, art, etc.....because consciousness is
learning all this stuff in order to evolve to a higher organization and
to become as loving as possible.

This is why everything is better in the world when we work together,
when we love and care for other people, and when we live our lives
thinking about something besides our egotistical-selves.

What comes immediately to mind when I read your argument is that you think consciousness equals everything, therefore everything = everything.

I see plenty of people not evolving... but they're not dead?

 

[Greensub]

Consciousness is primary, the mind is secondary, the brain is tertiary,

Oh... and this is just where we will butt heads forever... I fundamentally disagree with this, it is self-evidently wrong to me through my personal experience.

It wasn't a conscious decision of mine to be in a car accident... to suffer brain damage... to not be able to talk right or communicate properly. Primary damage happened to my brain, Secondarily, it affected my mind & consciousness.

That's just the way it worked.

 

[Easygrowing]

We all have our own diffination about-what the "reallity" is..you-we all-can talk about-how it is.But how each person-seen on that-how the reallity is-can always seems
different in our heads !..If "you" looking on a Red wallbrick-and show those,to another person-the other person,can also see,this is red-if the person not are colorblind-of course . ) But again-one would see those mabye-as light red-the other mabye dark Red..
IF "you" understand-and if not-?

Good tread-in a way.
Hay

 

[HempKat]

People thought the earth was flat from when the first human though about it...right up through around the year 1...+/- a thousand years. So, EVERYONE who lived before the year 1 thought the world was flat (100,000 years or more)...it's ONLY after the modern cultures that have math do people BEGIN to realize the truth. The CHURCH were the ones perpetuating the flat earth ideas...and the CHURCH were those times equivalent to the universities... Yes, the OFFICIAL education system falsely taught (yup they knew) lies...as they STILL do. so actually, it's is very recent that people knew the earth was round.

As often as you are wrong one would think you would learn to research your claims before you open your mouth and prove how much you don't know.

The paradigm of a spherical Earth was developed in ancient Greek astronomy, beginning with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most Pre-Socratics retained the flat Earth model. Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.[2][3][4][5]

The misconception that educated people at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth has been referred to as "The Myth of the Flat Earth".[6] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Love this line... "Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe." Really? You think you're THAT special? That much better, more intelligent, than your stone aged cousins? I thought you were a "everyone's equal" kind of guy? That's pretty bigoted of you to think ANYONE before the year 1 is an idiot. so...in your opinion...people were idiots, morons, incapable of abstract thought...before "modern times"? I'm just trying to get into your head...I find inconsistencies.

Still failing at comprehension eh? When did I ever say I was that much better or that I was special? Everyone is equal if they are all given the same things. Back then they didn't have schools like we have now. The average person went thru life with only thier personal experiences to educate them. Most of those experiences dealt with things like getting food and staying safe from predators. The average person had no time or need to sit around and ponder if the world was round or flat and so they typically accepted the word of whatever authority they looked up to (ie King, Priest, Shaman, etc). It's pretty assinine and moronic on your part to think me saying "most people" translates to anyone and everyone. I never called anyone an idiot I called them uneducated, there is a big difference. So no you're completely in error as always, I never said people were idiots or morons incapable of abstract thought before modern times. I said they were uneducated and didn't have the foundation of understanding in order to think abstractly about the shape of the world or it's location in the universe.

Acutally..."technology" is a broad word. Our LIVES changed more between 1800 and 1900 than they did between 1900 and 2000. IMO of course. The 1800s brought us from agrarian (independent) to industrial (specialized and dependent)...we got the "computer age". We have more iGadgets...that's about it. Housing, transportation, food production is all basically the same. "miniaturization", nuclear, and medicine are the big 3 winners for the 1900s. Socially, we've gone down. We were better off in the 1800s with the strong extended families than now with more single mothers raising children than ever before. We're a mess as a society...and the "progressives" keep making it worse.

Wow, another thing you totally miscomprehend, imagine that. I never said our lives chnaged more between 1900 and 2000. Lives changing wasn't even involved in the point that was being made. In fact it wasn't even a point being made, South Florida thru out a what if about what would I think if 30 years ago he told me there would be cellphones and flat panel tvs and the like. My point was that technology has been evolving so fast that 30 years ago the idea of cellphones and other new technologies was not as abstract as South Florida was saying.

So tell me, I know this is kind of off topic but I was curious, how does it feel to be so consistently wrong about everything you think and say?

 

[HempKat]

I was talking about the scientists assuming that there was something,
and then the Big Bang happened. They never explained what the hell
that was and where it came from. This means that their whole theory
assumes that there was always something. And that at one point,
all of a sudden, from nowhere it just blew up!

I mean if the dynamite blows up, don't you think that there was a
cause? Well, the scientists are saying there was NO cause. They
don't want to come straight out and say that they don't KNOW.



This part explained why the scientists don't want to explain that
they know that consciousness is all that there is, and that this
world we are living in is a virtual world that consciousness created
in order to evolve itself.

Wrong, wrong, wrong no scientist is saying their wasn't a cause. What they say is that the big bang is a theory. They can't tell you how a theory happens until they establish it's not just a theory. Until then they don't have enough info to even make an educated guess on how their theory happened.

You have a tendency to think that a scientist not saying something has meaning (ie They don't say God exists therefore Scientists believe God does not exist. or They don't say how the Big Bang happened therefore they think it happened without cause. Those are irrational conclusions and your explainations of your belief here are rife with irrational conclusions.

 

[cashmunny]

Hey look, a philosophical circle jerk. Who came last?

 

[imadoofus]

you guys are still missing the most valid essence.

gravity is.

it defines us, our time, our lifes, our space.

its poignant, the depth of our vainity.

even though the universe is expanding at a ALARMING RATE; gravity defines us.

IF

 

[southflorida]

you guys are still missing the most valid essence.

gravity is.

it defines us, our time, our lifes, our space.

its poignant, the depth of our vainity.

even though the universe is expanding at a ALARMING RATE; gravity defines us.

The primary direction of the thread now is this: Is this physical reality
we are living in a virtual reality being simulated by consciousness
as the primary substance (digital intelligent data) with evoultion
(the dynamic lowering entropy in the consciousness ecosystem)
pushing everything to evolve and become more organized...or not?

Gravity is important only in this physical virtual reality where it is
part of the rule-set where it defines the constrains (rules) which
every entity (sentient [human being] or non-sentient [rock]) must
obey as one of the players in this virtual simulation game.

It is no more important than space-time, which is the primary rule-set
that makes our Universe what it is.

 

[southflorida]

I know that I have written a lot of crazy shit in this thread, and I don't
really expect anyone to believe a word of what I have written. Simply
be open minded and sceptical, and see if any of this rings true in your
direct experiences in your own lives.

What I would really like to get your attention for, is to mention this
book by David Bohn, which is free to read online, and here is the link:

http://www.wepapers.com/Papers/126100/Thought_As_a_System_-_David_Bohm

Folks, this is without a doubt the most profound shit that I have ever
read in my life about how our thinking works. Fuck all that virtual
reality and other stuff I wrote about, you can ignore that and it really
won't make a difference in your life at all...imho...at least (it might
make a difference, must most likely not a lot) because the most
important place is where you are right now, in this physical reality.
This is obvious, and I never denied that or wrote that it is not that
important. Obviously, if we're here it's important, period!

Anyway, getting back to that book. After reading it all yesterday,
I had to let you all that check out this thread that it's worth taking
your time and carefully reading through that book, because what
he reveals inside is VERY useful for each one of us in this life.

Once the insight that his books leads you to hits you, you will be
really, really glad that you took a chance and listened to me.

That is about the best I can do to persuade my good friends here at
icmag.com to spend a few hours finding out what "thought" really is,
and how it is NOT a thing with which we simply see how thing ARE.

It is FAR from that, and this book reveals this completely and
profoundly. Anyone that has this insight, will thank me for it,
I guarantee it. You don't have to, I want you to have this insight
just because I like all the people in this forum, since we all have
one big love that unites us. And this is enough for me!

 

[CrumpleZone]

I have been thinking about thinking, but i think i may have over-thought the whole thing.
Ya think?

 

[CrumpleZone]

Meta

Meta

I have been thinking about thinking, but I think I may have over-thought the whole thing.
Ya think?