Biggest challenges with vert growing?

[Bob Smith]

I don't have the inclination to waste time and argue with you (although it seems as though I'm now mired in this ridiculous argument, go figure); if anyone reading this thinks setting their lights up in a square pattern (and totally wasting the interior of the four lights, which would be the "best" spot for a plant, in my opinion, Krusty's, Ddoc's, etc.) is a good move, go for it.

If anyone thinks not trimming larf off of the back of a plant only receiving light on one side is a good move, go for it.

If anyone thinks that a single plane of a vertically hung light (of one or many lights, doesn't matter) doesn't lose a fair amount of light vertically (to both the floor and the ceiling), go for it (but seriously, do some research to get a clue).

Anyhow, that's about all the time I have to waste on this "discussion", so people can now decide for themselves.......

OP, sorry for getting so off-topic - the biggest challenge(s) to vert growing (for me) are the initial startup costs (PVC is hella expensive) and learning how plants react differently to vertical bulbs as opposed to horizontal bulbs overhead.

EDIT: if anyone wants to see Gingerale's ideas in picture form (or at least a close representation), find a thread by Cheecho at verticalgreen dot org called "2 2200 watt flowering rooms" or something like that - he sets his lights up in a triangle pattern in the interior of his plants, which is basically what Gingerale is saying to do.

 

[mrktwiz]

QUOTE ; "and learning how plants react differently to vertical bulbs as opposed to horizontal bulbs overhead."

Bob, how correct you are, I am still trying to optimize height, bulb placement vs plant placement etc....I (for one) appreciate the discussion going on here and your views, also I do appreciate views of others although I see where your going and understand.

Peace to all, can't we all just get along and pass that dutchie to me MOFO! You bogart!

 

[Marlo]

The whole purpose for switching to vertical growing, is so a grower can make use of 360 degrees of light given off by a bulb more efficiently. Period.
If you set up your lights in a square, with no plants in the center, you are wasting TONS of light. 25% of each bulb will be basically hitting another bulb. How you find that productive is beyond me.

Your outlook on pruning/trimming would lead me to believe you have never grown vertically before.

I'm leaving this "debate" alone.
If you can't see where you are completely wrong GA, I'm not gonna waste anymore time trying to enlighten you. The information is there for all to make their own decisions.

All the best to your grows. And I'll check back for your pictures.

 

[Bob Smith]

The whole purpose for switching to vertical growing, is so a grower can make use of 360 degrees of light given off by a bulb more efficiently. Period.
If you set up your lights in a square, with no plants in the center, you are wasting TONS of light. 25% of each bulb will be basically hitting another bulb. How you find that productive is beyond me.

Your outlook on pruning/trimming would lead me to believe you have never grown vertically before.

I'm leaving this "debate" alone.
If you can't see where you are completely wrong GA, I'm not gonna waste anymore time trying to enlighten you. The information is there for all to make their own decisions.

All the best to your grows. And I'll check back for your pictures.

^^^^What he said.

 

[Shcrews]

I'm already over it

the most challenging thing about vertical growing?

explaining it to rookies

 

[mrktwiz]

I'm already over it

the most challenging thing about vertical growing?

explaining it to rookies

lol...

 

[gingerale]

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[SELFHEMPLOYED]

Well... I smashed the gpw barrier at 1.23 gpw on my first attempt at vertical doing everything wrong according to you.

Heavily trained vertical stadium scrog.


5.7 with 2k

 

[shawkmon]

really good thread, makin the change soon !!

 

[gingerale]

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[ganjasuiteseat]

hardest part of vert is not growing vert.haha peace

 

[Madrus Rose]

No matter how you do it, you can't go wrong by switching to vertical.

Eureka...finally you got it , so simple .

* See you finishing up the run SelfHempy & did
5 1/2 + off of 2k ?

Not toooo shabby! ...

 

[organicsquirrel]

Haha, ok, now I'm starting to see why your viewpoint is so warped.

Um, NO, not even close to 25% of light from a given bulb is wasted by hitting another bulb. Perhaps 3-4% at the very most. The bulbs aren't hanging right next to each other for Christ's sake, they're a couple feet apart, and most of the light that "hits" them will go through the glass and emerge from the other side.

The benefits of having multiple bulbs shining on a given plant FAR, FAR outweigh this trivial and minor loss. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post, as frankly, it's quite clear that you are not equipped with the mental faculties to model this situation in your head, take into account all of the various factors, and understand why I am correct and you are just flat out wrong.

On a separate but related note, my system also allows one to much more easily control airflow in the room to keep the bulbs cool. The principle is, air flows from outside (behind) the rows of plants, towards the bulbs, into the middle of the square, and up into a ventilation duct above and in the center of the bulbs. This allows one to maintain laminar air flow in the room (instead of the chaotic, often overly-windy conditions most growers create with random fans blowing this way and that) thus making it super easy to keep temps even and controlled. In this setup there is NO need or desire for cool tubes or even additional circulating fans in the room; all airflow needs are taken care of by the single central air evacuation duct.

If you fail to recognize the laws of physics then you sir are the one lacking the mental capacities. Even if you were right (and rest assured you are just merely delusional), you are rude and arrogant. Please bring your fight elsewhere, this thread was becoming informational before you arrived.

 

[dramamine]

Haha, ok, now I'm starting to see why your viewpoint is so warped.

Um, NO, not even close to 25% of light from a given bulb is wasted by hitting another bulb. Perhaps 3-4% at the very most. The bulbs aren't hanging right next to each other for Christ's sake, they're a couple feet apart, and most of the light that "hits" them will go through the glass and emerge from the other side.

The benefits of having multiple bulbs shining on a given plant FAR, FAR outweigh this trivial and minor loss. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post, as frankly, it's quite clear that you are not equipped with the mental faculties to model this situation in your head, take into account all of the various factors, and understand why I am correct and you are just flat out wrong.

On a separate but related note, my system also allows one to much more easily control airflow in the room to keep the bulbs cool. The principle is, air flows from outside (behind) the rows of plants, towards the bulbs, into the middle of the square, and up into a ventilation duct above and in the center of the bulbs. This allows one to maintain laminar air flow in the room (instead of the chaotic, often overly-windy conditions most growers create with random fans blowing this way and that) thus making it super easy to keep temps even and controlled. In this setup there is NO need or desire for cool tubes or even additional circulating fans in the room; all airflow needs are taken care of by the single central air evacuation duct.

Man, you should actually run your system before you come on here in front of all these vert growers saying what works and what doesn't. It really sounds like you have it all worked out in your head, but those of us who run vert can easily see the flaws.

Why do you think it's efficient for 1/3 to 1/2 of your total light to have to pass through the (empty!?) square in the center of your setup? Light loses intensity as it travels, as I'm (fairly) sure you (should) know. Sure, your room may be productive, but very inefficient. I'm sure you could grow some good plants, but not efficiently. Tell me again how Red Spaghetti's room is less efficient than yours? I'd love to hear that one. Good luck.

 

[Marlo]

No matter how you do it, you can't go wrong by switching to vertical.

We agree on something!!!

At the end of the day, we're just arguing about how to achieve perfection. As long as you start with ditching the reflector and goin vert, you are on the right track.






MARLO

 

[gingerale]

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[gingerale]

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[whodare]

Greater yield per plant = greater efficiency. I am only putting this information out there so that people who can see and understand what I'm talking about can put this system to work for themselves and reap the benefits. If you think I'm wrong, I don't care. Feel free to grow however you want. But the fact remains: my system is more efficient, period.

wrong greater gram per watt equal more efficient. i dont care if one plant gives me just an ounce in a staduim. not when i can pack 150-200 on the shelves if i wanted. 1 oz a plant times 200 is bout 12 pounds off 4k. pretty darn efficient if ya ask me.

 

[dramamine]

Gingerale,

I like a lot of aspects of your setup. Beyond that, I'll just say the closer the lights are to the plants, the better growth and flowers you'll see. A light meter would show exactly how many lumens are reaching your plants and how much intensity is being lost as it travels. Not worth bickering about, but the further the light travels, the less good it does your plants. Your plants are only catching full-strength light from one angle. Seems like you're saying on the one hand that you waste less light than a typical stadium, but on the other hand that wasted light is validated by a reduced workload.

How much more efficient is your setup? Do you have any numbers to share? Having called people wrong, stupid and inefficient, it's only fair for you to back up what you've said here. Put this system in a 1000 x 1000 warehouse and the wasted lumens would be just massive.

 

[SCROG McDuck]

maintaining your vision

Yes, transpnt, putting on welding goggles is going to take
some geting used to...
w/o a hood it's almost impossible not to 'look at' the bulb.


I'm looking at designing a "shade/guard" for the bulb for when I must go into the center of the grow to check EC/water level, etc.. That bitch gets hot!