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good led light?
- Thread starter DRwood
- Start date
The 6-band HO UFO from Gotham hydroponics is good for seedlings and small vegging in about a 1.5 x 1.5' area.
In reality, you aren't going to get the LED equivalent of a 1k.
In reality, you aren't going to get the LED equivalent of a 1k.
good led light?
Look up Stealth Grow LEDs.
I have a SG602 veg and it's badass. Pulls 330w and is supposed to compare to a 600. Producing much better growth than the 4' 8bulb t5s I'm also using. They do make another, more powerful unit, that pulls 580w and is said to compare to 1200w.
Look up Stealth Grow LEDs.
I have a SG602 veg and it's badass. Pulls 330w and is supposed to compare to a 600. Producing much better growth than the 4' 8bulb t5s I'm also using. They do make another, more powerful unit, that pulls 580w and is said to compare to 1200w.
RoomRaider
Member
Hydro-gro-led had a 318w panel that was suppose to be 1kw equiv. It wans't really, but was able to produce 5oz of very sticky bud. Only had 2 runs, then put it on the backburner. IMO leds are great for flowering, but when you factor in the much higher cost, its not really feasible for larger scale production. Also, Im not sure how long the lights will really last. Manufacturers tend to say efficiency will only go down 10% or so after the first year, but will stay good for 5 years, or something like that. Not sure if I believe em. Feel much better being able to replace a single bulb then worrying about wether or not those hundred tiny bulbs are shining bright.
Hydro-gro-led use to be sponsors here, then they got banned. Not sure if was quality or politics. All I know is there 318w unit works well, but not for a thousand dollar price tag. Would pay $300-400 for it, and even at that I would like it to have a little more bang.
If its just for personal, then it would make alot more sense, don't have to worry about heat, overloading breakers, cut down a/c time, etc. But even on a personal level, you can yield more with a hps and grow less throughout the year. And if you are in a place that gets cold, all the more reason to stick with an hps
Hydro-gro-led use to be sponsors here, then they got banned. Not sure if was quality or politics. All I know is there 318w unit works well, but not for a thousand dollar price tag. Would pay $300-400 for it, and even at that I would like it to have a little more bang.
If its just for personal, then it would make alot more sense, don't have to worry about heat, overloading breakers, cut down a/c time, etc. But even on a personal level, you can yield more with a hps and grow less throughout the year. And if you are in a place that gets cold, all the more reason to stick with an hps
W
wanderer
Lumigrow ES series and TI Probloom series are two LED lamp types that are viable alternatives to HID growing. See grows by SOTF420 and Hempyguy for some pictures of LED grows of this type of higher power LED technologies put to the test.
People were warned about the type of LED's used in the Hydro-gro units but the posts were binned by LEDGirl. When the results of her equipment were compared with better designed and constructed lamps finally came out there was nothing that could be said in her gears defense, but she continued to suppress the facts with a real bad attitude. It was the attitude that got her banned, most likely, because she was quite abusive.
People were warned about the type of LED's used in the Hydro-gro units but the posts were binned by LEDGirl. When the results of her equipment were compared with better designed and constructed lamps finally came out there was nothing that could be said in her gears defense, but she continued to suppress the facts with a real bad attitude. It was the attitude that got her banned, most likely, because she was quite abusive.
Morthan Hobby
Active member
Morthan Hobby
Active member
Sorry, it should be: www.hydrogardensandlights.com
Moondoggie
Member
Another vote for Gotham Hydroponics. Gotham's units are sold on their internet website, and also on EBAY and Amazon. EBAY and Amazon search strings: "lighthouse hydro", "lighthouse blackstar" or "blackstar led".
There are significant differences between supposedly similar LED units sold. This company has several videos on YouTube (search string: "Lighthouse Hydro" or "Blackstar LED"). These comparison tests include actual lumens and PAR numbers for several units.
Yes, I fully understand that these LED units do not have the wattage output of a 1,000 watt HPS. However, much of the output of conventional lights (HPS, MH) results in high heat levels. Also, the light spectrum of many of these high output lights is not always best for vegging or flowering. Despite the inherent advantages of LED units (low heat, spectrum-specific), there are several disadvantages including coverage area.
The LED units advocated by numerous posters are approximately $1,400. I don't know about you, but that is beyond my wallet.
I fully understand the argument "...you get what you pay for...", but show me a company, like Gotham, that does comparison tests with other LED units and I will seriously consider a purchase. Most companies advertise the unique qualities of their units or highlight the net results of some grow efforts, but don't perform comparison tests.
Do your own research to determine which units are most applicable for your specific needs.
There are significant differences between supposedly similar LED units sold. This company has several videos on YouTube (search string: "Lighthouse Hydro" or "Blackstar LED"). These comparison tests include actual lumens and PAR numbers for several units.
Yes, I fully understand that these LED units do not have the wattage output of a 1,000 watt HPS. However, much of the output of conventional lights (HPS, MH) results in high heat levels. Also, the light spectrum of many of these high output lights is not always best for vegging or flowering. Despite the inherent advantages of LED units (low heat, spectrum-specific), there are several disadvantages including coverage area.
The LED units advocated by numerous posters are approximately $1,400. I don't know about you, but that is beyond my wallet.
I fully understand the argument "...you get what you pay for...", but show me a company, like Gotham, that does comparison tests with other LED units and I will seriously consider a purchase. Most companies advertise the unique qualities of their units or highlight the net results of some grow efforts, but don't perform comparison tests.
Do your own research to determine which units are most applicable for your specific needs.
S
sm0k4
I would rather the companies tell you exactly what bin of LEDs are on their light so you can look them up and see how they are yourself. Cree XPE, Osram Golden Dragon Plus, Luxeon Rebel II are all good brands. As long as they don't use cheapo Chinese knock-off LEDs the light should be good for growing.
I build my own lights because I want the best available bins that run efficient and bright. Also, the size is customized to fit my area. You are restricted to growing only under the light since they lose a lot of penetration the farther they are away. So they are only financially beneficial in small cabinets and micro grows right now. The good LEDs are still $4-8 per LED (depending on color). Once that price drops, they become way more economical and would make more sense to compete on the 1k Watt level. Right now its still cheaper to just use 1k HID if you are going to grow larger scale grows.
I build my own lights because I want the best available bins that run efficient and bright. Also, the size is customized to fit my area. You are restricted to growing only under the light since they lose a lot of penetration the farther they are away. So they are only financially beneficial in small cabinets and micro grows right now. The good LEDs are still $4-8 per LED (depending on color). Once that price drops, they become way more economical and would make more sense to compete on the 1k Watt level. Right now its still cheaper to just use 1k HID if you are going to grow larger scale grows.
Moondoggie
Member
smOk4:
No arguments here; your observation regarding types of LEDs utilized is exactly what Gotham argues. Check out their YouTube videos to see for yourself; Gotham states they only use CREE LEDs.
I also agree that for large-scale operations, conventional lights remain the best option until higher power LED prices decline; however, for those growers with limited spaces or other specific requirements, LED units have several advantages that have been posted on this forum numerous times.
No arguments here; your observation regarding types of LEDs utilized is exactly what Gotham argues. Check out their YouTube videos to see for yourself; Gotham states they only use CREE LEDs.
I also agree that for large-scale operations, conventional lights remain the best option until higher power LED prices decline; however, for those growers with limited spaces or other specific requirements, LED units have several advantages that have been posted on this forum numerous times.
S
sm0k4
Yep, like this cabinet I just finished up a couple nights ago. I have had it running for 30+ hours straight at this point with the fan barely audible. Temps stay around 70 making LED most efficient use of light in a PC grow. There is 20-25W of LED in this PC build giving me roughly 30-40W per square foot.
Two beans popped today so the test grow will be underway soon to test out this LED panel. I am using Osrams for easier mounting. Right now I'm pushing 500mA. I might boost it to 600mA since my temps are only 70 F.
Two beans popped today so the test grow will be underway soon to test out this LED panel. I am using Osrams for easier mounting. Right now I'm pushing 500mA. I might boost it to 600mA since my temps are only 70 F.
Moondoggie
Member
Great looking cabinet. Unfortunately, I do not have your ability to construct a grow cabinet.
This is what many forget: light emanating from conventional lighting (or LED) does not necessarily correlate to the light spectrum needed for plant vegetation or flowering. This comment from the link below: "Though PAR light ranges from 400 to 700 nm, the region brightest to human eyes is the area of least effect on plants."
As discussed on ICMAG many times, a properly configured LED light can more closely match the wavelengths needed to facilitate a plant's photochemical processes without the negative side effects of conventional lighting.
http://www.specmeters.com/pdf/Light_Brochure.pdf
This is what many forget: light emanating from conventional lighting (or LED) does not necessarily correlate to the light spectrum needed for plant vegetation or flowering. This comment from the link below: "Though PAR light ranges from 400 to 700 nm, the region brightest to human eyes is the area of least effect on plants."
As discussed on ICMAG many times, a properly configured LED light can more closely match the wavelengths needed to facilitate a plant's photochemical processes without the negative side effects of conventional lighting.
http://www.specmeters.com/pdf/Light_Brochure.pdf
S
sm0k4
Right on Moon, exactly why I went with the wavelengths that plants use up.
LED wavelengths optimum for vegging.
630-640nm reds
6500K cool white (supplements the yellow through green wavelengths)
440-460nm deep blue
Add to that the 660nm reds in flower and have a minimum of 30 watts per square foot and you should see decent buds.
The ratio I currently use is ~75% red, ~15% blue, ~15% white. 60% of the reds are 660nm. Going to use this small pc setup to experiment with and also build a bigger 3'x2' cab. LED can be doable, but its quite expensive for a startup cost. DIY or consumer bought. Its cheaper to DIY the best light than to buy the best light available on the market though. These are just my opinions from the vast research I've done the past couple of months. LED is still pretty new but these are the latest ratios and wavelengths I've seen to be most effective. Adding green LED as I see advertised now seems to be a waste. Why not throw a white one there? Most cool white LED bins give off enough yellow and green already. Plus some blues and reds. Its a pretty decent light to supplement the far red and far blue.
The efficacy achieved with LED should be better since it is distributed evenly across the canopy through multiple light sources. 16 in my case. This is the only drawback IMO, it forces the use of side lighting to grow anything over 2-3 feet tall.
LED wavelengths optimum for vegging.
630-640nm reds
6500K cool white (supplements the yellow through green wavelengths)
440-460nm deep blue
Add to that the 660nm reds in flower and have a minimum of 30 watts per square foot and you should see decent buds.
The ratio I currently use is ~75% red, ~15% blue, ~15% white. 60% of the reds are 660nm. Going to use this small pc setup to experiment with and also build a bigger 3'x2' cab. LED can be doable, but its quite expensive for a startup cost. DIY or consumer bought. Its cheaper to DIY the best light than to buy the best light available on the market though. These are just my opinions from the vast research I've done the past couple of months. LED is still pretty new but these are the latest ratios and wavelengths I've seen to be most effective. Adding green LED as I see advertised now seems to be a waste. Why not throw a white one there? Most cool white LED bins give off enough yellow and green already. Plus some blues and reds. Its a pretty decent light to supplement the far red and far blue.
The efficacy achieved with LED should be better since it is distributed evenly across the canopy through multiple light sources. 16 in my case. This is the only drawback IMO, it forces the use of side lighting to grow anything over 2-3 feet tall.
you will need several led units to equal a 1000 watt hps. probably cost about 5000$.led lighting has its place for some growers but dont believe the hype about how they compare to an hid
weezard, I am not mistaken. LED's lack sufficient green and many other critical areas of the spectrum. Their light is emitted in direct bands and is not diffuse enough so mixing of different NM emissions is very poor. Below is coppied from spurr in one of his many intelligent threads/posts. Spot on and one huge reason most led light assemblies are crap at the moment. I don't like them for the other reasons I mentioned already. Again the below is by spurr. He touches on one issue that I consider to be a big one with LED's. I would have done the 'quote thing' but I need to learn a little on that function.
Hey all,
Here are two good articles by David R. Hershey that debunk many wrong ideas in plant science, I especially like the part about green light, etc. I have a few studies showing that green light, under bright (high irradiance) white light (ex. HID) can drive rate of photosynthesis more than blue and red light.
The claims that green light isn't useful is total BS, and based upon flawed 'chlorophyll A/B absorption spectrum' curve passed around the cannabis world for many years (found via. a leaf extract inside a "spectrophotometer"; see this example). That is one major reason I dislike most LED arrays: they lack sufficient green light.
The 'action spectrum of photosynthesis' gives a much better representation of quantum yield from blue, green and red range light than does the 'chlorophyll a/b absorption spectrum'. Albeit the quantum yield of green light from high irradiance white light is undervalued in Kieth McCree's 'action spectrum of photosynthesis' (which is why Keith McCree's work, re: Quantum Flux Density and Quantum Yield Curve, are a bit flawed).
"Avoid Misconceptions When Teaching About Plants"
David R. Hershey
http://www.actionbioscience.org/education/hershey.html
"More Misconceptions to Avoid When Teaching about Plants"
David R. Hershey
http://www.actionbioscience.org/education/hershey3.html
Hey all,
Here are two good articles by David R. Hershey that debunk many wrong ideas in plant science, I especially like the part about green light, etc. I have a few studies showing that green light, under bright (high irradiance) white light (ex. HID) can drive rate of photosynthesis more than blue and red light.
The claims that green light isn't useful is total BS, and based upon flawed 'chlorophyll A/B absorption spectrum' curve passed around the cannabis world for many years (found via. a leaf extract inside a "spectrophotometer"; see this example). That is one major reason I dislike most LED arrays: they lack sufficient green light.
The 'action spectrum of photosynthesis' gives a much better representation of quantum yield from blue, green and red range light than does the 'chlorophyll a/b absorption spectrum'. Albeit the quantum yield of green light from high irradiance white light is undervalued in Kieth McCree's 'action spectrum of photosynthesis' (which is why Keith McCree's work, re: Quantum Flux Density and Quantum Yield Curve, are a bit flawed).
"Avoid Misconceptions When Teaching About Plants"
David R. Hershey
http://www.actionbioscience.org/education/hershey.html
"More Misconceptions to Avoid When Teaching about Plants"
David R. Hershey
http://www.actionbioscience.org/education/hershey3.html
2 of the Lumigrow ES units totalling roughly 660 watts combined will get you right where you want to be and easily compare to or outyield a 1000 watt HPS and they are extremely well built and very powerful using 5 watt LED's with adjustable color spectrums and intensity ranges so they can be used for all cycles of growing including seedling stage, clones, vegetative growth, and flower. Next! 
S
sm0k4
Your statement doesn't debunk LED's and whether they can work or not. You can custom tailor an LED array to any spectrum and color mixture you want. You just need to use the proper LEDs or you get crappy buds.
I still think they have a place in small setups where you don't want to grow tall. They can work, but they aren't HID. No need to bash all LED technology because of the magnitude of crap on the market.
