The Mad Librettist is scaling up

[VerdantGreen]

yeah i think the problem with the pine bark fines is that it is a fairly unusual application for the product and from what i have read you dont want any other type of bark in there - so although it may work great the chances of not getting exactly what you want are greater. standard ingredients like peat are more consistent.
i think the oil absorbent is the calcined clay or fuller's eath isnt it? - same as non-clumping kitty litter and turface? thats something ive been meaning to try instead of perlite for a while now.
although perlite does have the advantage of weighing f-all - something to consider when you are going to be using big pots

VG

 

[mad librettist]

Heya VG, napa parts #8822 is actually calcined DE, which is closer to Axis/Playball. Calcined clay is closer to Turface. They have identical applications on athletic fields, but the DE holds way more water, and also holds on to that water less tightly. Calcined DE is also more durable than clay.

According to my info source, it's best to test this stuff before putting it in the mix, by soaking for 72 hours, then freezing it in the water. If it turns to mush don't use it.

 

[mad librettist]

ok so I had a design idea.

smart pots are round, my space is square.

What if I use 3 15 gal pots at a time, and shape my screens like pie slices? I can bury the frame inside the pot that way. The key is I have three supports per screen instead of four. The pointed part of the screen could be set lower than the "crust" of the slice, giving me a shape that follows the arc of my light. Despite having a round trellis structure, I would of course train the plant to fill the entire space. So loss from the round shape would not be a biggie.

The edge of the smart pot would line up with the "point" of the screen, but the screen would continue past the two other supports. That way the pots themselves would be in the center of the room.

i just smoked a bowl of course...

 

[VerdantGreen]

mad, the products are different in the Uk, but calcined clay i can get as non-clumping kitty litter and its the same as seramis (which sounds like your turface)

i also use 3 supports per module. thats fine (my cab is wide than it is long but the pots have to fit in the 2x2 tray in the middle) did you mean to say 3 smart pots not 4?

i tried burying the supports in the soil but it didnt work quite as well as my present system - but that was due to the tapering pots as much as anything....

as for sloping screens, the plants often grow a bit taller on one side so actually being able to choose the orientation of the flat screen (rotate it) is very handy

yep stoned here too

 

[mad librettist]

ah VG good point, I'll stick with flat screens and my training instincts.

 

[northstate]

ML-
Just when you needed something else to ponder, how about 4 ladies in 20gal with mod. scrog but have the screens tilted in a V maybe 25 degrees or so to take advantage of your new found lumens. More surface area is good! You can reach under the tall side for de-fol or top dressing. Just a quick thought but you are quite skilled and thanks for helping the community. NS

edit: saw some square fabric type pots @ the hydro shop the other day with handles sewn in maybe 14gal.?
didn't catch the brand but not the exact same fabric as SmartPot, slightly more felty if that works.

 

[mad librettist]

update - I am still waiting on my calcined DE as a replacement for perlite, then I can mix everything up.

I have my peat, compost, and loam all screened to 1/4" and ready to go.

The fafard shrimp and seaweed looks ok under the scope. I bought it frozen, so it took about 24 hours to start waking up in water with an air pump and a bit of fish hydrolysate.
At first, the only movement was large mobile rod shaped bacteria, then after about 36 hours I had lots of small organisms with differentiated cell parts (not sure ciliate/flagellates), and some bouncy hyphae. Curiously there are no testate amoebae, which I am used to seeing lots of. I think I'm seeing lots of cysts but I'm not sure. No invertebrates to be found.

 

[MrFista]

Oooh! Can you get pictures?

 

[Microbeman]

update - I am still waiting on my calcined DE as a replacement for perlite, then I can mix everything up.

I have my peat, compost, and loam all screened to 1/4" and ready to go.

The fafard shrimp and seaweed looks ok under the scope. I bought it frozen, so it took about 24 hours to start waking up in water with an air pump and a bit of fish hydrolysate.
At first, the only movement was large mobile rod shaped bacteria, then after about 36 hours I had lots of small organisms with differentiated cell parts (not sure ciliate/flagellates), and some bouncy hyphae. Curiously there are no testate amoebae, which I am used to seeing lots of. I think I'm seeing lots of cysts but I'm not sure. No invertebrates to be found.

Now you gotta buy one of my cameras eh Mad? You should be able to differentiate the ciliates and flagellates. Flagellates vibrate when they feed and generally seem less directed in motion than ciliates, however, certain species can be tricky. Testate amoebae are often an occupant of sphagnum peat moss. You may have got a batch which was not from a high testate amoebae populated are. Likely you will have a high fungal content.

[Joke of the day; I recently had a ''well known lab facility which we all know'' former head lab technician tell me that the testates are the cysts from which the naked amoebae hatch] (I decided not to post the name of the lab) hehe.....hehe...hehe

 

[mad librettist]

Oooh! Can you get pictures?

there are so many things in line for purchase before a camera, alas.


but I can PM you an address where you can send a camera and attachment...

Microbe - I didn't have long to look, they were small, and I figured they were probably flagellates, since ciliates tend to be bigger so far. bad assumption?

 

[Microbeman]

there are so many things in line for purchase before a camera, alas.


but I can PM you an address where you can send a camera and attachment...

Microbe - I didn't have long to look, they were small, and I figured they were probably flagellates, since ciliates tend to be bigger so far. bad assumption?

Generally ciliates are larger but look at the tiny ones on my ID DVD around the rotifer. Let me know when Dr Fista sends you the $$ for the camera. No attachment device required.

 

[MrFista]

LOL

You guys...

I have an outdoor plant called microscope, another one called camera, should I plant another called ML's camera?

 

[mad librettist]

that works Fista. I'll send you a picture per day in weekly installments.

 

[Microbeman]

Oi vey

 

[mad librettist]

smart pot mod v-scrog concept

smart pot mod v-scrog concept

So I was looking at the frame I just made for my worm bin bag.

Now what if I make the design 18"x18", and add a plywood bottom and some casters, then a scrog net?

15 gallon smart pots have an 18" diameter and are 13.5" tall
add 1.5" for casters
screens 12" above the surface

I have about 56" of vertical space
minus 27" floor to screen
minus 12" distance to light

that leaves me with about 17 inches max between the screen and the height of the light in the center, and 11 inches at the edge of the screens

Should I raise the screens, or make them more steeply sloped?


An extra bonus, if I make the trellis out of wood, is that I can attach a small container to the frame, fill it with soil, and bury a node in it without making a cut. Roots should grow from the node, at which point i can cut. Works with tomatoes and squash, anyone tried that with cannabis?

 

[VerdantGreen]

mad, it looks good, pretty much what i thought in the early chat, but i would have 6-8" gap between top of pot and screen. if doing a V then that should be the smaller distance imo.

as i said earlier the disadvantage of V is that you cant rotate the screens if the plants end up growing more than you want on one side. i can rotate mine 180 - but i always said if i buit another cab it wouuld be square and the screens could be rated by 90, allowing 4 different orientations for each screen - 4 more chances to get the ideal canopy.

the other thing about V and vertical is, i wonder if it effects the apical dominance, some shoots being higher than others during the training process. always wondered about that
maybe mr F can tell us???

VG

p.s. - layering will work for cannabis (burying the stem) you can also just wrap something moist round the stem and secure it like rockwool or a peat pellet (thats called air layering)

 

[mad librettist]

thanks VG.

I'm thinking I won't send the initial shoot up the center of the screen, but rather, send it to the short side, so I am always training "up" from there.

Then again, you do make a good case for the flat screen, and in my experience so far the screen is actually just a suggestion.

What's new for me is going to a "sun" model, after using the "wall of light" that I got from a cfl array. So I can't really picture what you are saying about the plant growing more to one side. With cfl there was no center.

of course, I am getting ahead of myself. First I have to run a group from seed as I am motherless.

 

[jaykush]

the other thing about V and vertical is, i wonder if it effects the apical dominance, some shoots being higher than others during the training process. always wondered about that
maybe mr F can tell us???

from my observations i think that if the lower parts are getting light they still still produce just as good as the upper bud sites, unless there getting more light of course)

 

[mad librettist]

so Jay by that logic a v-shape should yield better since more sites will be closer to the light?

 

[mad librettist]

bubble bubble, toil and trouble...

bubble bubble, toil and trouble...


just got done doing some mixing and screening. first things first, congratulatory bowl.

into the 100 gal smart pot (aka the cauldron) went:

12 gals or so old soil mix, unused(i think?) (aprox lc mix)

30 gals new soil consisting of

3 parts peat
2 parts fafard top soil
3 parts calcined DE, fines screened out (similar to axis/playball, same producer ep minerals)
2 parts fafard shrimp and seaweed compost, screened to 1/4 inch
dolomite 1.25 cups per 10gal
biotone plus 3-4 cups per 10gal
azomite .5-1 cup per 10gal
some horticultural charcoal/charcoal powder (I used the coffee grinder) soaked 2 days in fish hydrolysate

on top of that went 12 gals or so of 4 month old mix which was
peat
peat humus
zeolite for pool filters (perlite/sand substitute)
worm castings
fed bokashi in the tub
well populated with worms, no sign of bokashi, no anaerobic smell. but it's a bit heavy.

I added 10 gals of material at a time and mixed with my arms. the 100 gal smart pot rocks for this purpose.

The calcined DE is interesting. It holds more water than perlite or even vermiculite (i think?), but also more air, so it's supposed to promote moisture instead of saturation. a lot of work to screen it and lots of waste. I'll save some of the wash as a mechanical insecticide.