Cloning a Meyer Lemon tree?

[j242]

Seems to be tough according to my reading. Has anyone been successful? Does a fresh cutting off the bottom of the tree that is still green respond to say a warm bubbler?

Thanks for any suggestions!

Cheers

 

[autosfordummies]

i think your best bet will prob be an airlayer. . ive tried to take cuttings a bunch of time to no avail.

 

[j242]

i think your best bet will prob be an airlayer. . ive tried to take cuttings a bunch of time to no avail.

Ya I have been reading about that. What part though? A really young green part?

Cheers

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I don't think I've ever seen a grafted Meyers. I figure they're all rooted cuttings like Valencia oranges, so it must be possible. Usually, with evergreen hardwoods a young green part is used. I bet a nice cannabiz cloner and rooting hormone would do it.

 

[David762]

Never tried a bubbler.

Never tried a bubbler.

Seems to be tough according to my reading. Has anyone been successful? Does a fresh cutting off the bottom of the tree that is still green respond to say a warm bubbler?

Thanks for any suggestions!

Cheers

But I have cloned cherry trees before, in potting soil. I had little success using powdered Rootone, but CloneX makes a thick gelled rooting treatment especially for woody plants that works well.

 

[pseudopod]

I'm trying to do this right now, actually, with a lemon tree in my yard. My first attempt has been just to dip it in rooting hormone and stick it in some LC's mix. It's been a few days and the leaves are folding up, but I haven't given up on it yet. I'll let you know if I have any success. I guess I could just plant a seed or something, huh..

 

[Jaymer]

I tried clipping clones and dipping in root powder mixed with water once but never got taproot, It kind of seems like tough tree to just be able to clip of a branch and expect it to keep growing and put out roots at the same time so small fresh clippings might work better.

I'm trying to air layer a grapefruit tree now (thxautosfordummies), seems like it would have a better chance of surviving to root and separate that way. smart, smart method there but I haven't had success yet.

 

[David762]

Gels work better than powders for woody plants.

Gels work better than powders for woody plants.

I tried clipping clones and dipping in root powder mixed with water once but never got taproot, It kind of seems like tough tree to just be able to clip of a branch and expect it to keep growing and put out roots at the same time so small fresh clippings might work better.

I'm trying to air layer a grapefruit tree now (thxautosfordummies), seems like it would have a better chance of surviving to root and separate that way. smart, smart method there but I haven't had success yet.

And taking a cutting from a younger, greener portion of the tree is better, with at least 2 or 3 sets of leaves. Use sterilized tools, cut at an angle, dip immediately into a rooting gel, and then place the cutting in a suitable medium. Some people have better luck by gently crushing (bruising) the bottom 1/2" of the stem before dipping it in the rooting gel. Use distilled water (no nutrients), and a plastic tent over the cutting to maintain a higher than ambient RH, but opening it twice a day for fresh air. Woody plants like trees take a bit longer to root -- instead of 1 - 2 weeks, it might be 2 - 3 weeks. Only when roots do appear well developed (1/2 - 3/4") should you begin feeding it with 1/4 diluted nutrients. It is possible that the cutting suffered from an air embolism because of using a rooting powder instead of a gel, allowing air to be drawn up into the plant. Clonex Red was designed for woody plants like tree cuttings, a gel with a higher concentration of active ingredients.

Best of luck with this endeavor.

 

[rexamus616]

You don't 'clone' citrus, you graft it.

Get a rootstock, grow it out to like "pencil thickness" ( 1-1.5cm) [i.e. _after_ the 'angular', green growth, when the branch becomes more rounded and woody.... since the new angular growth will be hard to 'match up' with the cambium layer of the 'rounded' wood of the root stock]


I'll try find all my info on it and post again if you want....

 

[David762]

Cali must be overrun with "rootstock".

Cali must be overrun with "rootstock".

You don't 'clone' citrus, you graft it.

Get a rootstock, grow it out to like "pencil thickness" ( 1-1.5cm) [i.e. _after_ the 'angular', green growth, when the branch becomes more rounded and woody.... since the new angular growth will be hard to 'match up' with the cambium layer of the 'rounded' wood of the root stock]


I'll try find all my info on it and post again if you want....

I can't find any seeds in Cali oranges, either. If you cannot grow them from seeds, and you cannot clone them, then I HAVE to see the "Mother of all Citrus" trees in Cali. It has to be a major tourist attraction, LOL.

But I have seen orange seeds (Florida), and growing a citrus tree from seed is a long-term project -- about 6 - 7 years before flowering. Not much difference with (Florida) orange trees from clones. The BIG difference is that grafting the appropriate cutting to a more mature "rootstock" accelerates the time to having a fruiting citrus tree by years. I am sure that the same holds true for Meyer Lemon trees. BTW, it is possible to graft any number of different varieties of orange (or cherry, or apple) to a single orange (or cherry, or apple) tree -- I know because I've used such trees for residential gardens.

So, LOL, I believe that you are actually repeating SOP for commercial growers, who have a different perspective from an individual. It's not so much that it cannot be done as it is that a commercial grower wouldn't likely use such a method, correct?

I am looking forward to your updated post re: grafting to rootstock. Have a great day, rexamus616.

 

[grapeman]

I don't think I've ever seen a grafted Meyers. I figure they're all rooted cuttings like Valencia oranges, so it must be possible. Usually, with evergreen hardwoods a young green part is used. I bet a nice cannabiz cloner and rooting hormone would do it.

All Meyers Lemons are grafted.

Meyers Lemon does best on a "sour orange" root stock.

In the farming business, you won't find any lemon in California that is NOT grafted onto a "sour orange" root stock.

While you may be able to 'clone" the vegetative part of the tree, half the tree is roots, and you need to use the proper root stock.

It will not produce properly without the root stock and will be susceptible to multiple root borne diseases.

 

[rexamus616]

Heres some general info about rootstocks. I'll look for specifics on meyer lemons.

Rootstocks for citrus
J C Owen-Turner, formerly Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries.

With the current modern trends, economics of production, new varieties, and changing techniques the decision as to which rootstock to use just doesn't come any easier, quite the contrary. The questions keep coming and there does not always seem to be black and white answer for each situation.

This article gives some of the scion/rootstock combinations being used in the industry, some of the likely problems and a few don'ts. It is hoped that this article will assist all sections of the Queensland industry, nurserymen and growers, to make rootstock choices to fit in with current trends and production techniques.

All growers will accept that stepping out side known safe combinations may result in some failures. But then, if there is no experience and the combination is not a known failure then try it with a smallish number. There is not a recommendation to cover every situation, which is why all sorts of combinations are tried. To understand the underlying reasons for a suggestion or recommendation first the characteristics of a rootstock should be examined. It would be wise to discuss growing situations and the rootstock/scion combination with someone with experience, before making a decision.

The rootstock
Early in the life of the industry, citrus trees were grown as seedlings. Unfortunately seedlings have a very long juvenile period, that is, they grow for years before producing any crop. The only exception to this is West Indian Limes which are grown successfully as seed of from cuttings. In addition, many seedling varieties are susceptible to most of our soil borne diseases and pests such as Phytophthora and nematodes. Some varieties may not grow true to type, producing anything but a commercial type fruit.

Since these problems were diagnosed the industry has been based on orchards of trees which consist of two parts, the rootstock which goes in the ground and the scion (pronounced cy-on) which is budded or grafted on to it. The selection of the combinations made looking at a whole host of factors, the desirable characteristics of the tree.

Rootstock selection is a major consideration when planning any citrus orchard. Historically, citrus has been regarded as a long term tree crop, thirty years and better. Modern methods, techniques, situations and selections have changed the thinking a little with a fifteen plus year life a viable consideration. Either period is a long time for any living organism to persist in the ground under current day horticultural production conditions.

Choice of rootstock
Choosing the right rootstock is fundamental to the success of the orchard. The rootstock has several major responsibilities:

• it anchors the tree in the ground and supports the upright growth
• the root system must absorb water and nutrients for tree growth and fruit production
• the root system is one part of the tree which stores energy as carbohydrate
• the rootstock has the potential to provide a level of tolerance of soil borne diseases
• the rootstock allows the scion to adapt to a variety of soil conditions
• some rootstocks are more while others are less tolerant to salty water
• some rootstocks are susceptible to citrus virus and viroid diseases. Trifoliata and its hybrids Troyer, Carrizo, Swingle and Benton must be budded with virus free material.
• In addition to these responsibilities, each variety and species has the following characteristics to varying degrees: vigour, disease tolerance, nematode tolerance, compatibility with scion, drought resistance, cold hardiness, tolerance to salinity, effect on scion, fruit size and quality.

The idea is to find a rootstock with the greatest number of desirable characteristics to meet the set of orchard conditions where the tree is to be grown. For any one set of conditions there won't be a perfect rootstock even though some do come close. It should probably be said here that a recommendation made in California, Florida, Southern states of Australia or in any other citrus growing country may not necessarily be the best combination for mandarins in Queensland. The reasons why they sometimes don't work may be found somewhere in this article. For every one of the combinations not recommended here, there will be an exception in someone's experience. The reasons and situation for this occurrence should be closely examined before repeating or using that combination.

A phrase often used is `in a replant situation'. This is where a citrus tree has been removed because it is old or for whatever other reason and citrus is put back in the same spot. Nematodes and Phytophthora are the two principal diseases which knock out plants on other than tolerant rootstocks. A large amount of replanting is taking place and more marginal soils are being used.

Queensland's citrus industry is based on mandarins (60%) with oranges a remote second, followed closely now by lemons. It would appear that lemons will increase in planted area over the next five years, and for new combinations we need more experience and research. For oranges and the rootstocks used to date there have not been any real problems.

It is our wide range of mandarin varieties and rootstocks where we have more of a problem in making a choice. In recent years, of particular importance has been the decline of Imperial mandarin trees on Troyer citrange rootstock.

Brief notes on combinations
Lemons
All lemons do well on Rough lemon, but on new and deep soils only. For replant and shallow soil situations, Villa and Lisbon may be budded to Troyer BUT the budwood must be virus free. Lemons don't like Swingle, there is an incompatibility there. Try Meyer on Troyer with virus free budwood, for replant.

Eureka may be budded to Rough lemon for new soil. For replanting and shallow soil Benton citrange has been the only compatible rootstock. Two other rootstocks have recently been recommended by NSW agriculture for Eureka. These are Fraser and Cox. Whilst we have no experience in Queensland with these, they are a fair bet and may be tried.

Eureka is incompatible with Tri and all its hybrids except Benton. The incompatibility shows up as a 'yellow ring' at the bud union, which seems to choke the tree.

Cleopatra mandarin and Sweet orange have been used under lemons but do not appear to provide any advantage over Rough lemon. There is very little historical data or experience to support the use of these two stocks.

Oranges
All our oranges will do well on all rootstocks but there are the usual restrictions for replant and shallow soil situations. Oranges on Cleopatra mandarin does not have a great deal of experience to recommend it.

Washington Navel on Swingle may be a shy bearer. The vigour from Swingle results in a large tree very quickly. Results for the first 10 years of a trial indicated that it produces much less fruit for the same size tree on Troyer. In addition, the quality of fruit on Swingle is only as good as Rough lemon. Swingle appears to be well suited to grapefruit varieties.

Mandarins
Best rootstocks for mandarins are Cleopatra mandarin and Sweet orange for new soils. For replant situations we do not have many choices. Troyer is used for most of the mandarins in replant, but one of the less desirable scions combinations is Ellendale. Fortunately there do not seem to be any Ellendales being planted now. There is an urgent need for mandarin rootstock trial work to help sort out many of our problems.

The 'incompatibility' of Imperial on Troyer has been fairly well discussed in the Queensland Citrus Bulletin. This problem shows up as a severe overgrowth, benching, of the rootstock up and around the scion. This action virtually chokes the tree in a slow death. Tree decline can commence as early as 5 years. The more the tree is stressed the earlier the problem will start, and stress may be in many different forms. Once the overgrowth commences there does not appear to be any method to either stop or to slow the effect. This does not mean that Troyer should not continue to be used. Good management and a planned replanting program will help since Troyer does offer some advantages.

Swingle has been looked on as a replacement for Troyer under Imperial, and growers are using it. However, there does appear to be a larger bench forming. There has not been any trial work or any long-term experience with Swingle under Imperial, over a range of conditions and in commercial plantings for a recommendation to be made. No doubt over the next ten years current plantings of this combination will give results. The Department does not recommend this combination.

Swingle under Murcott mandarin has no trial backup for a recommendation, but should be a fair bet as a suitable combination. There is less benching, so far, and the orange parentage in Murcott should aid in this combination. The Department does not recommend this combination.

(source: http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/horticulture/5543.html )

NB: This info is specific to australia (QLD) so you may have to find info specific to your area


also, here is a link to a chart showing characteristics of different rootstocks:

www.sunraysianurseries.com.au/library/file/468.pdf



And here is some info on budding and grafting:

LAYERAGE AND CUTTAGE

Layerage and cuttage are a means of propagation whereby parts of a plant are induced to develop roots. Layering is commonly used on larger branches and rooting occurs while the branch is still attached to the plant. Smaller branches user for cuttings form roots after being removed from the plant. Both techniques can be used with citrus, but the resulting plants grow on their own roots without using the advantages offered by certain rootstocks. A rooted cutting or layer can be used as a rootstock for desirable scion varieties, but this is not commonly done.

GRAFTAGE

Graftage refers to any process of inserting a part of one plant into or onto another plant in such a way that they will unite and grow as a single unit. The scion is the part of the new combination which is inserted into the other plant and thereby produces the top of the plant, including branches, leaves and, ultimately, fruit. The stock or rootstock is the plant into which the scion is inserted and it produces the root system and lower trunk. The rootstock may be grown from seed, rooted cuttings or layers.

Grafting involves the use of a scion having two or more buds. There are numerous types of grafts including whip, cleft, bridge, in arch, stump, side, inlay bark, approach and others. Grafting is most commonly used to repair existing trees, to top-work existing trees to change varieties, and to produce new plants. Grafting is not commonly practiced with Florida citrus because it is a more difficult means of propagation compared to budding.

Budding involves the use of a scion with only a single bud attached to a piece of bark. It may or may not include a thin sliver of wood under the bark. Budding is the most commonly used technique for propagating new plants, but it is also used to top-work existing trees to a new variety. It is simple and easy to do, so anyone can be successful after a little practice.

There are several different methods of budding, including T, inverted T, chip (hanging), patch and others. Those most commonly used in citrus propagation are the inverted T bud and the chip bud (hanging bud). The inverted T bud is used when the bark is slipping (easily separated from the wood), whereas the chip (hanging) bud is used at other times.

SELECTING BUDWOOD

Buds should be collected from a tree or trees of the desired variety. Budsticks are commonly selected from the next to last growth flush (the wood behind the current flush) and from the current growth flush after it has matured and hardened. Older growth flushes can be used if the bark still is green.

Round twigs about the size of a pencil are preferred. The buds located in the axils of the leaves (where the leaf is attached to the wood) should be well developed, but still dormant.

After the budwood is cut from the tree, the undesirable wood and/or growth flush should be removed and the remaining budwood should be trimmed to lengths of 20-25 cm (8-10 inches). The leaves should be cut off leaving a stub of the petiole 3-4mm (1/8 inch) long to protect the buds.

Trimmed budsticks should be labeled and used immediately or placed in plastic bags in a cool place. Include a moist paper towel to maintain turgidity and freshness. The label should include the variety, date of collection and source. Budsticks are usually tied in bundles for ease of handling.

STORING BUDWOOD

It is desirable to use budwood as soon after collection as possible, but it can be stored for several months under proper conditions. The bundled budsticks should be sealed in a plastic bag and stored in a refrigerator. The optimum storage temperature is five degrees C (40 degrees F); it should not be allowed to go below two degrees C (35 degrees F). The vegetable drawer of the refrigerator is the best place.

Stored budwood should be checked every couple of weeks for the presence of mold or excess moisture in the bag. Budwood lightly affected with mold should be carefully washed in cold mild soapy water, rinsed, and rebagged in a clean bag. Excessively moist budwood can be lightly blotted on paper towels. Moldy, shriveled or darkened budwood should be discarded, as the buds probably will be dead.

When using stored budwood, it should be kept cool and moist. A good idea is to take enough budwood for a couple of hours use from storage.

BUDDING

Budding can be done anytime there is a suitable stock on which the bark is slipping and when suitable budwood is available. Usually, the bark is slipping from April to November, depending on location. To produce new plants choose rootstocks of pencil size to 2 cm (3/4 inch) diameter, either seedlings or rooted cuttings. The area to be budded should be pruned clean of thorns and twigs. The preferred budding height is 15 cm (6 inches) above ground level.

Preparing the Rootstock

A very sharp knife is used to make a vertical cut in a smooth area of the rootstock about 2.5-3.5 cm (1.0-1.5 inches) long through the bark, deeply enough into the wood to be certain the bark has been completely cut. A horizontal cut about 1 cm (0.5 inch) long is made through the bark at the top (T) or bottom (inverted T) of the vertical cut, again cutting completely through the bark. At the finish of this cross cut, the knife blade is turned slightly upward and given a slight twist to open the bark at the T. The point of the knife can be used to lift the bark along the vertical cut if necessary.

Cutting the Bud

Cut a bud from the budstick while holding the apical end of the budstick away from you. Start the cut about 1 cm (0.5 inch) above the bud and finish a little less distance below the bud. The knife should be held almost parallel to the axis of the budstick, cutting towards the thumb.

Cut only deep enough to take a thin sliver of wood under the bark. The bud should not be scooped out, as this causes too much wood to be taken.

Inserting the Bud

Insert the bud shield under the bark flaps of the stock so that the cut surface is flat against the wood. The bud shield should be completely enclosed in the T; if part of it protrudes, cut it off.

Wrapping the Bud

Wrap the bud with budding tape {polyethylene strips about 1 cm (1/2 inch) wide and 15-25 cm (6-10 inches) long}.

Start the wrap below the bud with 3-4 turns, finishing with several turns above the bud. The end is secured beneath the last circular turn of the wrap. Wrapping should be firm without being excessively tight.

Forcing the Bud

The wrapping should be removed after 2-3 weeks, as union with the stock should have occurred by that time. The bud is then forced into growth by lopping the rootstock. Cut about 3/4 of the way through the stock, on the same side as the bud and about 4-6 cm (1.5-2.5 inches) above it; then push the top over to lay on the ground. The lopped top portion continues nourishing the rootstock and increases the chances of survival of the new plant.

After the bud has grown several inches, the rootstock top can be removed completely by making a sloping cut (high end on the same side as the bud) about 1 cm (1/2 inch) above the bud.

As the bud grows, it will need to be staked and tied at regular intervals to prevent breakage. Remove all other buds and suckers from the rootstock as they appear.

Sources: Citrus Propagation For Homeowners by L.K. Jackson, University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (UF/IFAS); Plant Grafting, no. 7.223 by J.E. Ells and H.G. Hughes, Colorado State University Cooperative Extension. 1995-1999

 

[rexamus616]

I recently saw a meyer lemon at a local nursery, the label on the plant claimed that 'Citrange' was the rootstock.

Get one that is grown from seed (citrange, that is) and graft your meyer lemon to it.

 

[Woody]

on an off note. Has anyone ever tried to clone a sucker shoot from below a graft union and a tip from above, then once they have two healthy plants graft the rootstock to the fruitstock?

 

[Captain Ginyu]

Lemons are supposed to be okay to grow from cuttings, or seed. If you are going to take a cutting, my best advice is to mix a weak root-tone solution of water, & dip the cutting in for 2 days. Then rinse & keep it in fresh water for another couple days. Keep changing water,(that's the key) until you start to see roots emerging from the bottom. Then, let them grow 2 inches & pot it in soil. It has worked successfully for me, & I even did avocados the same way.

 

[geopolitical]

on an off note. Has anyone ever tried to clone a sucker shoot from below a graft union and a tip from above, then once they have two healthy plants graft the rootstock to the fruitstock?

I've done this with a few gooseberries I have that are grafted onto a hardier rootstock. I wouldn't recommend it though, you never know if your rootstock or scion has contracted a virus or other pathogen that will doom your new plant.

As for lemons, I've had success taking cuttings from meyers. I gave momma a fairly heavy feeding of nitrogen & micros a few weeks before, then took a few 6" cutting from a lower branch with smaller leaves. Stripped off all but 4 leaves, dipped in willow water, put into soilless mix over mild heat with a very loose ziplock bag opened & draped over the plant (no idea on humidity levels but they certainly weren't 100%). Of 4 cuttings got good rooting on 2 within a few weeks.

 

[Mr Jay]

Pardon my confusion,
I have a friend sprouting meyer lemons from seed and they're doing just fine putting along. Is the general consensus that he will need to graft them to a root stalk of another plant to survive or will they be just fine? Facts and not speculation please, thank you for the help!

 

[geopolitical]

In my experience many varieties of lemons grow reasonably true from seed on their own roots. Citrus grown from seed may have an extended juvenile period in which they flower poorly if at all. One of our meyers from seed took nearly 6 years to bloom worth a damn even with water stress/etc. Oh, a note on thorns. We have three lemon trees total, the two from seed have some pretty lethal looking thorns, the one from the nursery has quite petite ones which are fairly blunt. So that might be an issue. You'll find that a happy lemon will grow phenomenally fast, I have to prune pretty frequently, I'll just nip off the new thorns on the two nasty plants when they're still soft. There is some slight variation in the fruit between the three but unless you're sitting in front of samples from all 3 trees at the same time it's pretty hard to tell. I don't think they're "true to seed" but at least the two we have are pretty damn close.

They're gorgeous houseplants all the same with glossy deep green leaves. They also seem to have one hell of a low light requirement. We've had good growth on them under 4-5 hours of light a day.

 

[HighDesertJoe]

You don't 'clone' citrus, you graft it.

Get a rootstock, grow it out to like "pencil thickness" ( 1-1.5cm) [i.e. _after_ the 'angular', green growth, when the branch becomes more rounded and woody.... since the new angular growth will be hard to 'match up' with the cambium layer of the 'rounded' wood of the root stock]


I'll try find all my info on it and post again if you want....

He's right..and the Rootstock they use is from a very hardy stock hell it might even be from an orange.