Not looking good-survey answered with pics

[hazefordayz]

Grolab GL60
Cap custom 6" fan
HTG supply air cooled reflector
Plantmax 400 HPS bulb
Lumatek digital dimmable 425/400/275/250 ballast

How long has this problem been going on?
2-3 weeks

What STRAIN are you growing?
sour cream

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
seed

What is the age of your plants?
16 weeks 4 weeks flower

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
8 weeks

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
same

How Tall are the plants?
SCROG throws off height

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
flower 4 weeks

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
SCROG

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
6 gallon square garden container

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
FFOF 2/3 perlite 1/3

What brand Nutrient's are you using?
Fox Farm Trio half strength

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
following schedule to a 'T' at half strength 2 liters water
How often are you feeding?
every other day
1. just water with nutes
2. just water with 3/4 tsp molasses
3. nutes with molasses
4. 3 liters plain water just enough to get runoff to check ph/ppm

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? fox farm schedule
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
dont follow this one

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
varies from 7.2 - 7.6 attempt to keep runof between 6.5 and 7.0

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
latest was 7.0 with 575 ppm
back in veg runoff was 5.8-6.0 so i started to put higher ph'd water to get the runoff up so for last 9 weeks my feed water has been 7.2 to 7.6 depending on the day, even though my runoff has never been higher than 7 is it possible to the high ph feed water has been a problem?

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
always ph/ppm feed water, runoff checked every 8 days

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
digital ph pen calibatd monthly

How often are you watering?
see above

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
400 w plantmax HPS

How old is your bulbs?
3-4 months

What is the distance to the canopy?
was 8-10 now 15"(attempt to lower stress)

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
very low 20-35

What is the canopy temperature?
77-83

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
here is the problem has gotten down to as low as 59 some days i moved my tent to a warmer room could be almost 30 degree difference night and day i think hats where the trouble started

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
cap 6' fan with speedster on low

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
6' phresh filter exhausted thru a 6' air cooled reflector runs only when lights on

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
small clip fan yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
no, i water just enough that it is dry enough for another watering 2 days later

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap?
Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
tap

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
7.4 99 ppm

Are you using water from a water softener?
no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
no, started with 4 way lst and lst' the 4 mains a few times way back in veg

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?
no

the plant has looked like it has sunburn right under where the bulb is for a while so i kinda ignored that
i was goin to do a major flush last night and took it out of the tent or the first time in 3 weeks and couldnt believe how much worse it looked under regular lighting the HPS covers a ton of the discoloration and makes it look much healthier then it is
last night i was do for a new watering starting week 9 nutes

what do i do? flush and restart the feed schedule?
can this pant be saved?
i already moved the tent to a warmer room in the house to avoid the extremely low lights off temps
if you notice in the one pic under the canopy sems much healthier than the tops, is that due to the cold?

 

[VIKINGtrich]

Looks like they have been fried from to much nutes....and the PH is a little high..i always feed with 6.5 ph water....I don't care what the run off is.....but that's another topic.....I feed no more than 400 ppm's, thats base water, food and PH up.......I start with a base of 100- give em 250 ppm of food, and 50 ppm to get the PH straight with silica or PH up....and PH that to 6.5....and presto, never have issues.

I'm not big on flushing shit out..But I try not to overdo the nutes..IMO, I would water with PH'd water for a week....then check your run off TDS and see if its gone down at all.....If so, start feeding them again at something like 200 PPm's of food.....not counting your base... If you want me to break it down for you even more just PM me..I can make more sense of it for you...

 

[hazefordayz]

when i first started to check the runoff and saw 5.8 i got scared so thats why i started using such high ph feed water
i never went over half strength on the nute schedule, and as you can see i only gave nutes every other watering with some added molasses to one of those

what do i do?

 

[hazefordayz]

just to be clear
i water every other day, and only use nutes every other watering
here is the schedule nutes always at half strenght

first 2 liters just tap water and nutes

second 2 liters tap water, molasses

third 2 liters tap water, nutes, and molasses

fourth 3 liters just plain tap water - reed runoff ph and ppm

this has been my schedule for the last 12 weeks

 

[hazefordayz]

hey vike, sorry i only read the first part of your post and then replyed with another 'what do i do?" i just read your advice now and looking back over my logs, one thing i just noticed is that my runoff ppm has gone UP
my week six nutes were 345,438
week seven 740, 760
week eight 718, 742
these numbers are lower than or consistent with the numbers on the soil feeding schedule i am using, its a chart right from fox farm

 

[hazefordayz]

sent you a PM with below info
figured i'd post it so people can follow and hopefully charm in

i follow your process, just not the means you are using
i dont understand how you can so easily control the ppm of just your feed. if i am due to use 2 or 3 different liquid nutes and ph up, how can i follow the feed schedule? should i just use the same ratios in smaller amounts?
i currently have two seperate ph and ppm pens but have a 3 way combo meter with temp on its way

 

[hazefordayz]

i am going out for the day but will check in with this thread later
if anyone can please share some insight i would be very thankful
the only thing that helps my wife eat and sleep at times is cannabis and i dont have access or funds to acquire this stuff any other way
thanx in advance
for now i will head vike's advice

 

[MrMagic]

Dude just flush it out and finish it and start fresh.your yield and quality has been compromised by overfeeding but you still may get some decent meds for your wife. best of luck to you

 

[northstate]

VIKINGtrich is correct about ph 6.3-6.6 and less is more in regards to chemical nutrients. Some plants can take their feeding sched. and some cant. I feed all the way up to 1200ppm(hanna) in your stage of bloom with some strains. light burn for sure bullseye effect in first pic. The yellowing and purple showing are always in your plant but covered by green chloraphyll(SP?) when there is enough food. The "chevron" looking yellow in between with veins remaining green is a Mag. def but I think you have other issues. Your plant is eating itself to finish making flowers. Normal to have yellowing and this color change towards the end of your cycyle. It is late to correct or fix her this time but dont give up. Maybe grow four to six plants in smaller containers under a net and train them similar. Defoliate some inner growth to prevent powdery mildew and get more light to the interior. Do a trial plant or two, you will be sure to have meds and learn in the process. Best wishes to you and the lady and a green future! get a couple more going and have some fun, you are off to a great start. NS

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Hey looks almost exactly like toxic plastic...

Did you build that little pot on your own? I think your pvc is poisoning your plants. In-fact I would bet money...been there done that looks exactly the same.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Here is a link for you to read in-full:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=188434

If it is what I suspect it to be it will not get better and you will have to remove all the pvc/weird not necessary plastic material from your grow room (I suspect it is just your pvc). I seriously would urge you to completely remove all your pvc. What did you use for netting on the pvc? I used a wire that was also toxic as it was coated in plastic just like the pvc I used so it was double mistake.

I would do a run with no pvc to verify other wise you will be wasting many hours of work chasing your tail thinking its your nutes/ph/ec/ et cetera when its just your pvc.

 

[joe fresh]

i will chime in and say it is definently too much ferts....ill explain...

when too much nutes are given over a period of time, salts build up. when salts build up the leaves cant hold their moisture and will burn, or they may just yellow and die, but almost always a lock out occurs.

what i see in your pics is the center of the screen where the light is directly hitting is alot more yellow than the rest of the screen. this would normally indicate that the light is too close, but im going to assume that the light is 18" away from the canopy, and with the light being far enough to not cause light burn, im left to think that it is toxic salt build up. the reason they are more yellow directly under the light is because the plant cannot take up enough water to keep the leaves hydrated, so the leaves directly under the sun(light) will bleach quicker than the ones in the shade or not directly under the light


quickest remedy would be to raise the light to 30" above the canopy, this will slow the process until you harvest, the other thing you can do is flush now, then give only pure water until harvest.

 

[VIKINGtrich]

Hey looks almost exactly like toxic plastic...

Did you build that little pot on your own? I think your pvc is poisoning your plants. In-fact I would bet money...been there done that looks exactly the same.

Oh Wow! I didn't even think of that... very good chance thats the problem.... that or too much food.... I try to avoid plastics in my grow just for that reason.... Hope you get it figured out man.... Next time just tie your plants down, use bamboo..anything but plastic.....also get your feeding issues down... It Will get better and easier man.. Keep at it.... and ask alot of questions... Just remember less really is more...ALWAYS!

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I am all on board that it may be over fert and I could be wrong, but that look is 100% plastic toxicity from my experience. I don't ever voice an empty opinion especially in infirmary and I have a strong conviction on this one! It is the same top down decay I saw in person on 3 grows.

My opinion is that this is plastic toxicity and he thought it was a nute deficiency and kept piling on nutes and never saw improvement because that wasn't the problem. I did the same thing chasing my tail and it looked exactly like that and wasn't fixed till I removed my pvc trellis I had made, just for 'fun'.

Eventually they will become so stressed they will throw balls and pollen everywhere...I came home after 2 week vacation to thousands of seeds the first time and blamed my caretaker lol....I was sure to apologize when I found out.

 

[VIKINGtrich]

Worst comes to worse, just trim off the effected branches, (center of the plant) and finish the grow... Ive never had to do this, but i don't think it would set her back to bad...I honestly don't.....and get that PVC out of there too.... This is just my opinion man.. Its really hard to tell from pictures if my idea is a good one.....But If I needed this bud, that is what i woudld do, hopefully it wil get you through till your next harvest.....Don't give up on it.. You will get some bud..Just go easy on the ferts...no more than 300 ppm the rest of the way...and Id give it a week or 2 before i fed it anything other than water, PH'd water! raise you light up too for the next week or so.... get some clones in veg and start training them while you are waiting to harvest this....Use string to tie and bend your plant if you are wanting to LST....fuck that pvc...
Don't get down man... We all have hick-ups with our grows...Just learn from it, and become a better grower because of it... The worst thing that can happen is you go through all of this and still not learn from it... each grow will be easier and easeir, and before long, you will notice the slightest yellowing or the very begining of a def. or problem, so you can fix it before anything bad happens.. You will be able to read them a week ro so into the future.... and they will love you for it.... Take care bro.

 

[redspaghetti]

my little 2cents here

my gardener had this problem with some of the girls

i fixed it by moving the light up and also changed out the rez,

i believe there is something wrong with your ph or your nutes, something was out of sync

the yellows spread the most where the plants are the near the lights, you can flush em now

move the light up and wait a cpl days to see how they react, then slowly start the bloom nutes again and hope they finish nicely

--------------


or you could cut the lost and snip out the top colas where the yellows are, because below them the bud still look nice and green, let those see the lights and thrive,,,,,

hope this help

cheers,
red.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

very thankful
the only thing that helps my wife eat and sleep at times is cannabis and i dont have access or funds to acquire this stuff any other way
thanx in advance
for now i will head vike's advice

Haze don't stress your bud will be fine no matter what is wrong still comes out decent; if its over fert you can chill if its plastic toxicity its still smoke-able. I smoked it anyways, lol. Nah, I just never remember in any of my reading that it was no good to smoke someone can correct me if I am wrong. It made great brownies too.

 

[gdawg]

Switch to coco keep your ph @ 6 ignore your runoff ppm/ph and send bud to thank me later. Not from this batch

 

[VIKINGtrich]

.......another good thing you can do for her, is get a bigger pot, and fill it with some fresh soil, and up-pot the plant to the new bigger pot, WITHOUT disturbing the roots...... This will help too with all the salt in the soil.....once the roots hit the new soil, hopefully that will help it....

If you do this, wait until they need to be watered and tip the plant upside down, and ease the roots out of the old pot.....Just do it when the soil is dry, or the roots will get disturbed...

 

[ambertrich]

Just an observation, but the problem seems to be the dibutyl phthalate and diisobutyl phtalate plasticizers. As such, it seems reasonable the problems showed up in the flexable PVC tubing as plasticizers are to make the PVC flexable for those type applications.

I don't think that normal ridged PVC pipe would be a problem as there is no need for plasticizer for flexability.

The good news is there are vegetable oil based plasticizers that manufactures can use to avoid this issue altogether.