Water Problems

[slickwilly]

First post to IC, I'm going solo now and have a lot of questions. My son with a horticulture degree showed me the ropes but now he is gone on the high seas. Not happy with last crop. Want max yield (don't we all).

Short equipment and process summary: 20 5gal bucket dwc, 4000 watts, 10 gal control box only (no res), modified Lucas using GH, using tap h2O untreated at 6.6 ph, 220 ppms, CO2, two week veg. One strain but expanding.

Meter: need to find a new redundant meter, not happy with amount of time nor the drift and question accuracy. Presently using an older Hanna Grocheck. Cal and clean often. What is the best bang for the buck? Who offers the best pricing on net?

Root rot Enzyme: Using hygrozyme, have read some conflicts. Is the enzyme (from barley) no longer valid or did the manufacturer have some bad product? Bleach???

Lollipop Trim: (off topic of water) In what phase of the grow do you recommend, any tutorals?

Phosphorus: Amending water with this is generally done? How much and when? Do you meter this?

Formula for PH, Using GH ph down, what is the ml/gal needed to lower the ph one point? PH reading is, I thought, non linear, so is this a valid formula to assume?

More later and thanks for you consideration.

SW

 

[Carl Carlson]

Formula for PH, Using GH ph down, what is the ml/gal needed to lower the ph one point? PH reading is, I thought, non linear, so is this a valid formula to assume?

More later and thanks for you consideration.

SW

The amount of acid need to lower the pH depends on the acid buffering capacity of the water supply, i.e. the Total Alkalinity.

FYI:

ALKALINITY CONTROL FOR IRRIGATION WATER USED IN GREENHOUSES

The following example may help explain the importance of alkalinity when trying to acidify water (Figure 2): Grower A has a water with a pH of 9.3 and an alkalinity of 71 mg/L CaCO3 (TC = 1.42 meq/L). To reduce the pH of this water to 5.8, it takes 15.8 fl oz. of 35% (w : w) sulfuric acid per 1,000 gallons of water. In contrast, Grower B has a water with a pH of 8.3 and an alkalinity of 310 mg/L CaCO3 (TC = 6.20 meq/L). To reduce this water to a pH of 5.8, it takes 68.6 fl oz. of 35% sulfuric acid per 1,000 gallons of water. Despite the fact that Grower B’s water is a full pH unit lower than Grower A’s, it takes more than four times more acid to lower the pH to 5.8. Both alkalinity and pH are important to consider when adjusting the pH of a water.
​

and

Understanding pH management and plant nutrition (.pdf)

 

[Tonka]

First post to IC, I'm going solo now and have a lot of questions. My son with a horticulture degree showed me the ropes but now he is gone on the high seas. Not happy with last crop. Want max yield (don't we all).

Short equipment and process summary: 20 5gal bucket dwc, 4000 watts, 10 gal control box only (no res), modified Lucas using GH, using tap h2O untreated at 6.6 ph, 220 ppms, CO2, two week veg. One strain but expanding.

Yo slickwilly! I'm going to answer these questions with MAX YIELD in mind since you mentioned it.

Get an RO filter. A SpectaPure RO system will take that 220 down to around 10ppm for under $200. I'm not saying you can't grow with 220ppm tap, you can, I did for years and it works, but achieving superior results when using RO water is much easier. That's 200ppm more nutrients you can put in your solution.

Meter: need to find a new redundant meter, not happy with amount of time nor the drift and question accuracy. Presently using an older Hanna Grocheck. Cal and clean often. What is the best bang for the buck? Who offers the best pricing on net?

With 20 x 5 gallon buckets I would spend money on a meter/monitor. Search for a Bluelab monitor, or meter. They are expensive but you probably won't have to buy another one for a long time.

Root rot Enzyme: Using hygrozyme, have read some conflicts. Is the enzyme (from barley) no longer valid or did the manufacturer have some bad product? Bleach???

Enzymes are nothing but trouble in DWC (promotes algae bloom in some situations). Don't use Hygrozyme. A water chiller and cleanliness are going to be your #1 defense against root rot.

If you would rather use an additive, the 3 best, IMO, preventatives against rot are Bleach, Aquashield, and Dutch Master Zone.

Hope this helps
tonka

 

[slickwilly]

Thanks Tonka, I do use a chiller which I run around 64. Does anybody chill their cloning machine water? If not, do you acclimate to final temp slowly during veg?

I had an RO but was unhappy with the output volume and have read in some posts that tap water maybe beneficial for certain elements.

 

[jm420]

6.6 ph is to high you want to be closer to 6

 

[Merfolk]

I do use a chiller which I run around 64. Does anybody chill their cloning machine water? .

Higher temps preferred 75-80?

correct me if im wrong,

 

[Tonka]

Thanks Tonka, I do use a chiller which I run around 64. Does anybody chill their cloning machine water? If not, do you acclimate to final temp slowly during veg?

I had an RO but was unhappy with the output volume and have read in some posts that tap water maybe beneficial for certain elements.

Optimal temps, in most DWC systems, are somewhere between 65F and 70F, depending on your environment, system, strain, etc. Over time you will notice what temp works best through observation. Read over this post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4034060#post4034060

Chilling in cloning machine is unnecessary. Personally, I don't acclimate the root temperature for rooted clones going from clone machine into veg. Never really thought about it however, it might be something that someone else can comment on. Have not noticed a problem.

Tap water may turn out to work well for you. Your water company may have a water quality report available to see what types of beneficial elements are available in the tap (and what elements you will be surprised are in your tap water). If you do decide to use an RO, a 300+ GPD filter should work fairly well for your size system. To tell you the truth I'm never happy with my RO output. Water pressure into the filter needs to hit around 70psi to get good output. An inline booster pump on the RO system will maximize GPD.

6.6 ph is to high you want to be closer to 6

6.0 is good but I prefer 5.8 in DWC

Higher temps preferred 75-80?

correct me if im wrong,

In DWC this is wrong. At those temps you will run a high risk of root rot.

 

[smokedoja]

I'm currently running with the undercurrent recirculating DWC system, I've grown out some plants
using my 300ppm tap water, but after getting a r/o filter my growth has been unbelievable. Tonka
is right, tap water may benefit you but it all depends on where you get it from, get a water report,
IMO it never works out as well as r/o water.

I would recommend keeping the ph around 5.8 and the water temp at 67-68 degrees

cheers!

 

[jm420]

I said you want to be closer to six.I actually prefer a swing from 5.5 to 6.3 or so depending on flower or veg

 

[jm420]

Ive also had res temps consistantly exceed 75 f with no problems but thats another disscusion .I dont recomend temps that high but it can be done but 68f or so is where you want to be

 

[jm420]

BTW sounds like a sick setup ,Once dialed in you'll be rockin it ,What strains are you thinking?
Get rid of the hygrozyme,I use Lucas with liquid cool bloom with great results
If you have 4000 watts and 20 buckets why lolipop?Modular scroggs would be the way to go IMo or 5-6 trees

 

[slickwilly]

Thanks for all the great input.

I stated I chilled at 64, sorry I was wrong, I'm dialed in a 66. BTW, I try to keep the PH at 5.8. The last grow (maybe this is due to the Hydgrozyme) about 2/3's the way through, overnight the ph dropped dramatically to 5.2. Obviously, I had an imbalance or a failure of some sort, but I don't no why. No slime, no a bloom, but I freaked out and overcompensated.

Bluelab meters, I called around to a couple of grow shops. They're selling very very well. Must be the latest buzz in my area. In talking to one store they are saying that Hanna has cheapened their products by outsourcing to China. I like the idea of monitoring versus a portable, however, the frequency of cleaning and calibration is still the same no matter what meters you buy, so I am told.

5 Gal buckets (off topic), do not, do not, buy from Texas Hydroponics. I have had leaking problems from their buckets, finally I replaced all of them with what my local store sells.

Lollipop Trim (off topic), I do scrog, I was considering because I wanted the plant's energy going to a fewer main buds. I am always disappointed in branches that contain immature (popcorn?) buds. This last grow I will have ample material to make kief. BTW, I have tried many methods and found dry tumbling with my home made set-up to be the easiest and cheapest way to go extract, but I need to find a bullet proof 6 RPM/min. motor. I keep going through rotisserie motors.

I'm growing a blueberry, crazy as this sounds I have no idea what my two new strains are.

I would like to transplant my two new girls to soil (in cloner now) but feel a little nervous in doing this. Any stickies or advise would be appreciated. At one point I was completely soiless on purpose.

Thanks, thanks.