Warning new off gassing product!!!!

[U.G.U]

Snoopy
I am happy for you man. Feels good when your leaves don't fall off.

Horsemanrocks
I can not believe they sent you that after being notified of it being bad. What ever lines their pockets i guess.

peacenotgreed
I would not chance it if you are questioning it. Whats a couple of bucks.

BrnCow
Most of these store owners lively hoods depend on NGW its about not biting the hand that feeds you. Really they should care because how the law works at least in CA, anyone that handels a defective product can be liable from manufacturing, the distributer and the retail store.

 

[bigpuff]

The tubing from NGW/Sunlight is NOT the problem....

but here is sunlights official response and action as of today, I figured some of you may enjoy the read:

Dear XXXXXX;

I write to you today to discuss a matter pertaining to our Eco-Plus ½ inch black (part # 708235) and blue (part # 708225) branded tubing. Sunlight Supply/NGW has purchased this tubing from a Chinese manufacturer for approximately 3 years now and have sold it without any complaints from our customers. However, we recently received a single complaint from a group called "The BT Collective", a group out of Southern California stating that use of this tubing has caused damage to their crop. When we were first notified of this complaint we requested additional information to help us verify the claim. While the BT Collective responded to this request with additional claims, they failed to provide adequate information to determine whether any of the tubing had caused harm to their crops.

The claim cites that a certain chemical used in the makeup of the tubing, is specifically responsible. To date, we have no credible evidence that this chemical, which is used to give plastic products a soft, pliable feel, has caused any harm to any customer's crops.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale has purchased and sold this tubing for 3 years. In this timeframe, we have not received a single complaint from any storeowner or consumer before hearing from the BT Collective. In our experience, when there is a product on the market which is causing plant damage, that problem is quickly discovered. Our customers understandably care a lot about their plants and tend to report problems immediately after they are discovered. In short, we believe that if there were truly a problem with the tubing we have sold, we would have heard about it from customers long before now and from multiple sources. We have not.

Further, when we first started purchasing this tubing, we conducted internal tests by growing plants fertilized and irrigated with water running through the tubing and simultaneously submerged a full 100-foot roll in the reservoir. Our internal tests revealed no damage to the plants.

Sunlight Supply/NGW is a distributor of thousands of different products manufactured by hundreds of different manufactures. Black ½ inch vinyl tubing (the vast majority of sales) is a commodity product both for the industry and us. Sunlight Supply/NGW has no good reason to believe that the tubing it has been purchasing from its Chinese manufacturer causes harm to plants. However, rather than engage in a complex scientific debate, it is far easier for us to merely change tubing vendors.

Out of an abundance of caution, here are the steps we have taken:

Discontinued purchasing from the previous Chinese vendor for the Eco-Plus branded ½ black (product #708235) and blue (product # 708225) vinyl tubing.

Discontinued selling to Dealer Partners these 2 products.

Clarification - The Chinese manufacturer made only 2 of the tubing products (1/2" black and 1/2" blue). No complaints have been received related to any other tubing products in the dealer catalog (page 262).

Changed over to a domestic (USA) supplier on ½ inch black and blue vinyl tubing. These products will now be sold under the Gro-Pro brand name. For inventory clarification, the part numbers have changed. GroPro brand ½ inch black tubing is part #708265, ½ inch blue tubing is part #708260.

All orders now shipping, on ½ inch black and blue vinyl are now made in the USA and have been certified by the manufacturer as, "food grade" and made with only FDA approved materials.

In a good faith show of support for you, our valued business partners, we are offering to take back for credit or exchange (for the USA GroPro brand product) this tubing from any dealer partner wishing to return the Eco-Plus brand ½ inch black or blue tubing. Please contact your local customer service representative with any such requests.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale takes our obligation to provide our Dealer Partners with quality, safe and functional products extremely seriously as we have for the last 15 years. At this time, we have no verifiable evidence beyond the BT Collectives claim, that plants irrigated and fertilized through EcoPlus brand ½ inch black and blue has caused damage to plants. However, we felt obligated to inform our Valued Dealer Partners of this matter.

As always, thank you for your ongoing support of our company.

Craig R. Hargreaves
President

 

[bigpuff]

And he went into his local shop and showed the guys there. They call NGW and faxed this entire thread to them.

NGW has an extremely strict policy regarding assisting marijuana growers. I sincerely hope that the employee who faxed that in considered the trouble it would cause that shop. They make this painfully clear before you ever do business with them, and its not because they dislike marijuana growers (very far from the case) but because it is the only possible protection you can have against doing something illegal..

Another point id like to make is that the hydro store owners who want to make a profit don't buy their products from US suppliers because of the low margins. They will get a shipment from china, often with the US distributor logo on it just like from NGW, however it will have been a "second" or may have some defect in it. Since these stores pay higher for the lower volumes they purchase, the china manf. doesn't care one bit, and you sure wont be shipping it back to them if a customer here complains.

Please keep in mind any reputable store will replace a customers hose without the slightest hesitation, especially when that shop is being reimbursed for it from their supplier. If your shop wouldn't replace $20 worth of hose, you might want to begin looking for a new shop.

 

[U.G.U]

bigpuff
Thanks for that post.

Well it explains the new tube they are distributing. All you have to do is put them on blast to get them to react. It was within 1 week after them getting the fax, till the 1st report of changed tube. But weeks of lawyer talks did nothing. It wasn't till the whole community knew.

 

[U.G.U]

so the letter bigpuff posted got sent nation wide yesterday by NGW to all of their dealers. Also the article will be ready monday I will post a link to the article as soon as I get it.

 

[U.G.U]

Article is done!!!

http://www.rosebudmag.com/growers/h...ply-poison-hydroponics-medical-marijuana.html

 

[U.G.U]

Did Sunlight Supply Poison Hydroponics Medical Marijuana?

Did Sunlight Supply Poison Hydroponics Medical Marijuana?

A few years ago, professional state-legal California medical marijuana growers noticed their hydroponics crops were showing yellowing leaves, stunted growth, and poor yields. In some cases, entire crop cycles were wiped out.

The growers lost huge amounts of sleep, money and valuable medical marijuana, nearly going crazy trying to understand what was killing their crops. They examined all the factors you’re supposed to examine when you have crop problems: pH, water quality, nutrients, climate control, pests, diseases, plant genetics. You name it, they looked at it.

Through a process of elimination they narrowed the cause down to a toxin called Diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) allegedly contained in National Garden Wholesale (NGW) ½” Black Flexible Polyvinyl Chloride Tubing. NGW is an affiliate of hydroponics distributor Sunlight Supply, and all three entities are also known or affiliated as IP Holdings LLC.

The hydroponics growers say they had tests run, and conducted tests themselves. Convinced by the testing that NGW tubing was the culprit, they contacted Sunlight Supply and NGW, seeking an explanation and compensation. They got nowhere, so they retained an attorney, Jeffrey Lake. After Lake contacted Sunlight/NGW, he received an August, 2010 letter from an attorney representing the companies. The attorney is named Joshua Stump.

Mr. Stump’s letter offers various attacks dismissing the growers’ claim that NGW tubing damaged their crops. It also contains a troubling section in which Stump says that regardless of whether the growers’ crops were legal according to California law, they were still illegal under federal law. As such, the lawyer claimed, the “illegality” of the medical marijuana enterprise would likely protect Sunlight/NGW from product liability claims.

Stump further hones in on the medical marijuana aspects of the situation by asking all kinds of prying questions about the identity and confidential financial and/or medical history of medical marijuana patients and growers.

Medical marijuana attorneys who examine Stump’s letter say Stump’s approach leaves the impression that Sunlight/NGW is making a veiled threat to harass and/or nark out medical marijuana growers and patients as part of the Sunlight Supply defense strategy should the hydroponics growers file a product liability claim.

On November 22, 2010, Lake and his client plaintiffs (referred to as BT Collective) filed a class action complaint against IP/NGW/Sunlight in San Diego County Superior Court.

During my research about DIBP and other toxins that might enter plants via hydroponics materials, I learned that such chemicals may harm humans as well as hydroponics plants. I also discovered a substantial record of complaints and concerns regarding toxicity problems associated with indoor hydroponics grow tents and chambers made from plastics and other materials.

Beginning in 2006-07, an increasing flood of hydroponics growers began complaining in online hydroponics cultivation forums and elsewhere about off-gassing and poisoning caused by toxins in hydroponics grow tent materials and similar materials. Hydroponics growers told me they’d had problems with indoor chambers made or distributed by HydroHut, Sunlight Supply and other companies.

Reports from growers indicate that of the tent/chamber manufacturers whose customers were complaining about toxic materials, only HydroHut exercised good customer service in seeking to resolve the issues.

In preparation for writing this article, I directly contacted Sunlight Supply to ask them about their tubing and the court filing, and I had previously posted a hydroponics article containing public questions for Sunlight Supply. The only response I ever got from Sunlight Supply was one email from Stump.

But instead of providing the information that hydroponics growers need to know about Sunlight Supply products and the Sunlight Supply customer service and warranty policies, Stump tried to get me to disclose information about myself.

I was leaked what is purportedly a communication sent to hydroponics dealers from Sunlight Supply’s president, Craig Hargreaves, regarding BT Collective’s claims about NGW tubing. I am including the letter in its entirety, because I want to make sure that Sunlight Supply’s version of events is represented fairly. Here is the letter Hargreaves allegedly sent to his retailers:



Craig R. Hargreaves

“I write to you today to discuss a matter pertaining to our Eco-Plus ½ inch black (part # 708235) and blue (part # 708225) branded tubing. Sunlight Supply/NGW has purchased this tubing from a Chinese manufacturer for approximately 3 years now and have sold it without any complaints from our customers. However, we recently received a single complaint from a group called "The BT Collective", a group out of Southern California stating that use of this tubing has caused damage to their crop. When we were first notified of this complaint we requested additional information to help us verify the claim. While the BT Collective responded to this request with additional claims, they failed to provide adequate information to determine whether any of the tubing had caused harm to their crops.

The claim cites that a certain chemical used in the makeup of the tubing, is specifically responsible. To date, we have no credible evidence that this chemical, which is used to give plastic products a soft, pliable feel, has caused any harm to any customer's crops.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale has purchased and sold this tubing for 3 years. In this timeframe, we have not received a single complaint from any storeowner or consumer before hearing from the BT Collective. In our experience, when there is a product on the market which is causing plant damage, that problem is quickly discovered. Our customers understandably care a lot about their plants and tend to report problems immediately after they are discovered. In short, we believe that if there were truly a problem with the tubing we have sold, we would have heard about it from customers long before now and from multiple sources. We have not.

Further, when we first started purchasing this tubing, we conducted internal tests by growing plants fertilized and irrigated with water running through the tubing and simultaneously submerged a full 100-foot roll in the reservoir. Our internal tests revealed no damage to the plants.

Sunlight Supply/NGW is a distributor of thousands of different products manufactured by hundreds of different manufactures. Black ½ inch vinyl tubing (the vast majority of sales) is a commodity product both for the industry and us. Sunlight Supply/NGW has no good reason to believe that the tubing it has been purchasing from its Chinese manufacturer causes harm to plants. However, rather than engage in a complex scientific debate, it is far easier for us to merely change tubing vendors.

Out of an abundance of caution, here are the steps we have taken:

Discontinued purchasing from the previous Chinese vendor for the Eco-Plus branded ½ black (product #708235) and blue (product # 708225) vinyl tubing.

Discontinued selling to Dealer Partners these 2 products.

Clarification - The Chinese manufacturer made only 2 of the tubing products (1/2" black and 1/2" blue). No complaints have been received related to any other tubing products in the dealer catalog (page 262).

Changed over to a domestic (USA) supplier on ½ inch black and blue vinyl tubing. These products will now be sold under the Gro-Pro brand name. For inventory clarification, the part numbers have changed. GroPro brand ½ inch black tubing is part #708265, ½ inch blue tubing is part #708260.

All orders now shipping, on ½ inch black and blue vinyl are now made in the USA and have been certified by the manufacturer as, "food grade" and made with only FDA approved materials.

In a good faith show of support for you, our valued business partners, we are offering to take back for credit or exchange (for the USA GroPro brand product) this tubing from any dealer partner wishing to return the Eco-Plus brand ½ inch black or blue tubing. Please contact your local customer service representative with any such requests.

Sunlight Supply/National Garden Wholesale takes our obligation to provide our Dealer Partners with quality, safe and functional products extremely seriously as we have for the last 15 years. At this time, we have no verifiable evidence beyond the BT Collectives claim, that plants irrigated and fertilized through EcoPlus brand ½ inch black and blue has caused damage to plants. However, we felt obligated to inform our Valued Dealer Partners of this matter.

As always, thank you for your ongoing support of our company.

Craig R. Hargreaves, President

Obviously, if you are using an indoor hydroponics pre-made chamber, or thinking of buying one, be sure to ask the manufacturer about toxic off-gassing and warranties. In general, you need to be cautious when using any plastic or other petroleum-based material in your grow room, and do what you can to determine if it might off-gas anything that harms you or your plants.

Please note that Big Mike Straumietis of Advanced Nutrients has repeatedly charged that Sunlight Supply and its allies are amoral profiteers who refuse to respect or acknowledge the medical marijuana community or legal hydroponics medical marijuana growers, but they do like to make tons of money selling them hydroponics products.

You’ll note for example that in the Sunlight Supply letter you just read, Craig Hargreaves offers only to reimburse “dealer partners” (retailers) for unused NGW ½ inch tubing. He makes no offer to reimburse growers who say they’ve lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical marijuana crops because of that tubing.

“The issue of whether NGW tubing poisoned crops will be explored scientifically, I hope. What worries medical marijuana growers is a big hydroponics company that responds to a warranty issue by hiring a lawyer who hides behind medical marijuana being illegal federally,” said a hydroponics grower not affiliated with BT Collective. “We already knew that Sunlight, Hydrofarm, Maximum Yield, Urban Garden and the rest of those types are hypocrites who won’t allow any mention of medical marijuana growers at their trade shows and in their magazines, even though medical marijuana growers are a majority of hydroponics customers. But when Sunlight Supply uses federal marijuana law to shield itself against claims from hydroponics growers whose crops got ruined, that’s worse than hypocrisy.”

 

[brightskies]

Very nice.

I'm so happy you even made it this far U.G.U. Thank you for the hardships you've faced so far in this matter.

They would not have changed the tubing if they were confident it was safe.

 

[U.G.U]

brightskies

Thanks, Me too.

"They would not have changed the tubing if they were confident it was safe"

Exactly, If I was the only one to complain then they would not be pulling it off the market, refunding, and changing brand names, just for me. They are trying to back pedal at least they came to their senses on that.

 

[jd4083]

Well let me play devil's advocate for a moment...that letter is a little greasy, but it's pretty much standard lawyerese for "we have no actual liability here, but so as not to stir the shit pot further, we'll take care of you, our valued resellers." Classic example of properly run damage control, if you ask me.

Further, in regards to the MMJ issue - do you really think that SS has become as profitable and ubiquitous as it has by being run by amateurs? How stupid would they have to be to actually come out and directly acknowledge that they play a large part in much of the cannabis crop that is cultivated indoors in this country, where that same crop is a federal offense to produce and distribute?

While I don't claim to have any more inside knowledge than anyone else on this forum, I gotta say -- lots of bandwagon boycotters on ICMag. Taking the time to form your own opinion rather than parroting the next man without even actually considering the situation is a waste of time for all of us and doesn't help anybody.

oh, and for the record, I have never owned or used a Sunlight Supply product that I'm aware of, so I'm not speaking out of brand loyalty.

 

[snoopytime]

I formed my own opinion during the 10 months of yellow shit-stick 14" duds in my closet. I just didn't know why until UGU started this thread.

 

[Herborizer]

I formed my own opinion during the 10 months of yellow shit-stick 14" duds in my closet. I just didn't know why until UGU started this thread.

That.

 

[U.G.U]

"I have never owned or used a Sunlight Supply product that I'm aware of"

Lucky man! If you had owned one particular one we did you would be singing a different tune.

 

[Critter]

Great thread Op! I enjoyed reading through it and good luck on you ventures. Hope its not a bother if i ask a question. Do you think ill have a problem with these bins for a selfcontained DWC. I called the company they said its not food grade and that its ment for storage. It dosnt have a recycle code on it either.

 

[U.G.U]

Critter

there is really no way to tell

 

[Critter]

That's what I thought im gonna run em an keep an eye on em. Thanks for your input

 

[Kindman69]

Yep, been there, what a nightmare! Thanks for the thread!

 

[BrainSellz]

am dealing with this issue right now......unbelievable!
bad thing is some plants can handle more of it so it doesnt effect some as bad as others so it really messes with the mind.....gettin new hose i hope today....im sitting here watching this happen slowly with my own eyes and this is right before i was about to turn the lights over to 12/12, it gets so much worse when they go into flowering from my experience....i even got rid of a strain do to this((((((....i thought it was a finicky plant the whole time....to this day!
.someone warned me of this a month or so ago but i didnt listen (smack to the dome)....gunna dig out some photos

 

[Kindman69]

Here are some of my bad memories

 

[BrainSellz]

identical^.....just got back from the grow shop and they replaced the hose for free, they also had the release from the company, i was prepared for a problem....they asked me to return the n g w and said they would take it up with them, phuck yeah!...very happy right now as im off to change the hose out! ICMAG