I've just setup a small scale recirculating drip system, and am having issues with both ph control and smell. I'm using canna coco a + b, and GH ph down. I have the drippers set for 1 minute at lights on, and 1 minute at lights off. This time results in run-off for all the plants. The res is roughly 18 gallons, and there are 5 plants. I have a small water pump running 24/7 in the res to create constant movement. My issue is the res smells stagnant, maybe stale. Do I need a airstone in the res? Should I be letting the drip cycle longer? I have been reading through, but haven't found the answer yet. I am planning on switching to CNS-17, whenI'm done with the Canna. Will post pics in a few.
Can't control ph in res, what am I doing wrong?
- Thread starter Bluestar
- Start date
As promised, a few pics. I also forgot to mention, currently in week 2 of 12/12. I just topped off the res with plain water, and set my Ec to 1.2, ph to 5.2.
Pic 1 is the aquarium pump used for res circulation.
pics 2 and 3 are of the drip setup and ladies.
Pic 1 is the aquarium pump used for res circulation.
pics 2 and 3 are of the drip setup and ladies.
Attachments
well, it's a 3-day old res now. Ph was initially set to 5.8, for test run of length of time, etc. Next morning (maybe 10 hrs later and only the inital test drip) ph was 6.2
Friday night topped the res with tap water (ec .340), ph'd down to 5.2, and ran. Will check again around 9 (after second drip).
No other additives were being used, just added 30ml of PK 13/14 to res friday night.
Not using CO2, and tap water from a well, not public supply. Under 400 watt hps lumatek aircooled.
Temps are rock steady 70 F during lights on, 65F lights off. RH ranges from 40-55%
I've used these same nutes with hand water, but batch was being made almost every other day. Was hoping to finish these off this run without having to change res every week or two.
Thanks for the reply
Friday night topped the res with tap water (ec .340), ph'd down to 5.2, and ran. Will check again around 9 (after second drip).
No other additives were being used, just added 30ml of PK 13/14 to res friday night.
Not using CO2, and tap water from a well, not public supply. Under 400 watt hps lumatek aircooled.
Temps are rock steady 70 F during lights on, 65F lights off. RH ranges from 40-55%
I've used these same nutes with hand water, but batch was being made almost every other day. Was hoping to finish these off this run without having to change res every week or two.
Thanks for the reply
If the water smells bad it could be bacteria,but pH should goes down,not up.
The why pH rise could be because plants need more nutes...if your ec goes down pretty fast try to rise it.
Fertilizer are usually balanced to keep pH invariate,but I never used yours...have you already run this system with same nutrients with no issue?
Are you sure your pH meter works correctly?maybe you want to calibrate it or compare values with a liquid tester.
It's a good thing to use an enzyme product like atami atazyme or canna cannazyme.They help a lot
You use well water...it could contain a lot of bacteria...you should avoid to use this water.Maybe you will have some benefits adding H2O2 to disinfect everything.
Hope it helps somehow
The why pH rise could be because plants need more nutes...if your ec goes down pretty fast try to rise it.
Fertilizer are usually balanced to keep pH invariate,but I never used yours...have you already run this system with same nutrients with no issue?
Are you sure your pH meter works correctly?maybe you want to calibrate it or compare values with a liquid tester.
It's a good thing to use an enzyme product like atami atazyme or canna cannazyme.They help a lot
You use well water...it could contain a lot of bacteria...you should avoid to use this water.Maybe you will have some benefits adding H2O2 to disinfect everything.
Hope it helps somehow
Personally id be running to waste with about 10-20% run-off with coco.
l had a similar problem with canna nutes when i used to run a grow for an ex-girlfriend, i used to make up bottles of feed for her so she could hand water. After a couple of days the bottles of nutrient solution would smell stagnant but i always thought it was the organic bloom stim i use, maybe its the Canna nutes?
l had a similar problem with canna nutes when i used to run a grow for an ex-girlfriend, i used to make up bottles of feed for her so she could hand water. After a couple of days the bottles of nutrient solution would smell stagnant but i always thought it was the organic bloom stim i use, maybe its the Canna nutes?
I appreciate the feedback, everybody. I checked this morning, and here's what I found:
EC: 1.49
PH: 5.85
I adjusted the PH (using general hydroponics ph down powder) to 5.7
I then checked my EC again, and it was at 1.56 !?
Plants look good, green color, no burning - yet.
To answer questions:
Yes, i have run canna before, just not in a recirculating drip. Used to mix in a 5gallon bucket, would last maybe 3 days during veg, and by the end of day 3, had an odd smell to it. Plants never reacted badly, but still doesn't seem right.
I tried the cannazym when i mixed in the 5 gallon bucket, but it seemed to cause the mix to go bad (smelling really rank, almost decomposing garbage type smell), so I would just add it during the last feed from the bucket.
As for the PH pen, I ordered a new probe and installed it at the start of this. I did calibrate it, and keep is stored in distilled water.
EC: 1.49
PH: 5.85
I adjusted the PH (using general hydroponics ph down powder) to 5.7
I then checked my EC again, and it was at 1.56 !?
Plants look good, green color, no burning - yet.
To answer questions:
Yes, i have run canna before, just not in a recirculating drip. Used to mix in a 5gallon bucket, would last maybe 3 days during veg, and by the end of day 3, had an odd smell to it. Plants never reacted badly, but still doesn't seem right.
I tried the cannazym when i mixed in the 5 gallon bucket, but it seemed to cause the mix to go bad (smelling really rank, almost decomposing garbage type smell), so I would just add it during the last feed from the bucket.
As for the PH pen, I ordered a new probe and installed it at the start of this. I did calibrate it, and keep is stored in distilled water.
with new coco it can take a while for the return ph to adjust to what you are giving, it's nothing to worry about and will even out with time.
personally i would stop using the mixing pump 24/7 that will cause the ph minus to evaporate from the water even quicker then normal hence making the ph go up. personally i find it's enough to mix the water well with a stick when adding nutes and ph minus, after that no mixing is really needed in my experience. but if you want you could set a timer to let the water get mixed for 30 mins before each watering or so. done add an air stone as that will make the ph go up even faster with canna coco a+b.
but you will always get some ph drift even when things are settled down. either plants use the water faster and the ph goes down or the ph minus evaporates and the ph goes up. with recirculating setup you quickly find that a balance is reached by the return ph and the tank ph keeping things at or close to ideal ph wise.
peace
personally i would stop using the mixing pump 24/7 that will cause the ph minus to evaporate from the water even quicker then normal hence making the ph go up. personally i find it's enough to mix the water well with a stick when adding nutes and ph minus, after that no mixing is really needed in my experience. but if you want you could set a timer to let the water get mixed for 30 mins before each watering or so. done add an air stone as that will make the ph go up even faster with canna coco a+b.
but you will always get some ph drift even when things are settled down. either plants use the water faster and the ph goes down or the ph minus evaporates and the ph goes up. with recirculating setup you quickly find that a balance is reached by the return ph and the tank ph keeping things at or close to ideal ph wise.
peace
gaius,
thanks for stopping in and giving your incite, it's appreciated. I thought, from when I mixed in a bucket, that the stagnant smell might be because it's just sitting. That's why I figured I would add the circulation pump. I'll take it out today and see how things go.
And just to make sure I understand (sorry I'm a new), I should just keep adjusting the PH, and sooner or later it'll level out? Can you confirm it's feasible to run this type of setup (recirculating drip) with these nutes (Canna Coco A + B)?
Thanks to everybody for the responses.
thanks for stopping in and giving your incite, it's appreciated. I thought, from when I mixed in a bucket, that the stagnant smell might be because it's just sitting. That's why I figured I would add the circulation pump. I'll take it out today and see how things go.
And just to make sure I understand (sorry I'm a new), I should just keep adjusting the PH, and sooner or later it'll level out? Can you confirm it's feasible to run this type of setup (recirculating drip) with these nutes (Canna Coco A + B)?
Thanks to everybody for the responses.
totally feasible using canna coco a+B in recirculating drip setup. in fact it's a great way to grow some really good herb. adding cannaboost is also a good idea.
yeah the ph will adjust with time to the point where the returning ph is a bit low and helps to keep the tank ph at the right level. just adjust it when you check it and the plants will love ya for it.
yeah the ph will adjust with time to the point where the returning ph is a bit low and helps to keep the tank ph at the right level. just adjust it when you check it and the plants will love ya for it.
@ bluestar.
I think you have nothing to worry about.
I run a 50ltr recirculating reservoir. (so a little smaller) using canna A + B, a little Rhizotonic and now im in flower a little cannazyme,in a week or so i will use a little PK/13/14.
I would lose the pump thats moving it about for the reasons that gaiusmarius stated as these are bang on the money.
I would not use an air stone in the ressy, as i have found that they can cause more ph fluctuations, again i believe in relation to what gaiusmarius said above about evaporation.
Also now please dont take this the wrong way but, just relax a little on your ph correction,what i have found when in a recirculating system is that in can fluctuate massively,sometimes due to the plants feeding and sometimes just by extracting water from the feed leaving you with a more concentrated ressy solution.
now when i mean massive think 5.4 to 6.3 overnight and only 2 feeds
I think you have around 6 plants on 12/12 with an E.C value of 1.2,(850ppm)now imo for plants in there second week of 12/12 i dont think its nearly enough,i think a lot of your problems are being caused by your plants being hungry,but because your only giving them 1 minute in the morning, and 1 minute at night to grab there food, i dont think its enough time.
may i suggest you increase the lights on feed to 6 minutes, the lights off feed to 10 mins, and half way through the 12/12 lights on period you water for 2mins.
If you can try this for maybe 7 days i think you will find a dramatic improvement in you ph stability,and i think your plants will thank you for it.
I think your EC: level needs to be increased as your plants are doing a lot of things at the moment there growing roots,stretching,and also competing with each other all these things require energy.
also when your PH: was 5.85 and you corrected it to 5.7, i would of just left it alone, taken another reading over the next 2 feeds, and then made my decision from there, sometimes i think you can love your plants to much.
just to give you some idea, i have 9 plants in a 50 ltr wilma system,on day 21 of 12/12
there fed 3 times a day for 15mins a time.
the E.C is 2.0
the ph is set at 5.5 / 6
over the next 1 to 7 days the ph will steadily rise to around 6.1/ .2
during those 1 to 7 days i may have to add some plain ph water just to top it up.
on day 7 i change it and start again.
If you go to canna and put your ressy size in and use there light feeding schedule your still not feeding enough.
personally i dont think youve got anything to worry just give them a bit longer feed times and a little more food and i think you'll crack it.
BoB
I think you have nothing to worry about.
I run a 50ltr recirculating reservoir. (so a little smaller) using canna A + B, a little Rhizotonic and now im in flower a little cannazyme,in a week or so i will use a little PK/13/14.
I would lose the pump thats moving it about for the reasons that gaiusmarius stated as these are bang on the money.
I would not use an air stone in the ressy, as i have found that they can cause more ph fluctuations, again i believe in relation to what gaiusmarius said above about evaporation.
Also now please dont take this the wrong way but, just relax a little on your ph correction,what i have found when in a recirculating system is that in can fluctuate massively,sometimes due to the plants feeding and sometimes just by extracting water from the feed leaving you with a more concentrated ressy solution.
now when i mean massive think 5.4 to 6.3 overnight and only 2 feeds
I think you have around 6 plants on 12/12 with an E.C value of 1.2,(850ppm)now imo for plants in there second week of 12/12 i dont think its nearly enough,i think a lot of your problems are being caused by your plants being hungry,but because your only giving them 1 minute in the morning, and 1 minute at night to grab there food, i dont think its enough time.
may i suggest you increase the lights on feed to 6 minutes, the lights off feed to 10 mins, and half way through the 12/12 lights on period you water for 2mins.
If you can try this for maybe 7 days i think you will find a dramatic improvement in you ph stability,and i think your plants will thank you for it.
I think your EC: level needs to be increased as your plants are doing a lot of things at the moment there growing roots,stretching,and also competing with each other all these things require energy.
also when your PH: was 5.85 and you corrected it to 5.7, i would of just left it alone, taken another reading over the next 2 feeds, and then made my decision from there, sometimes i think you can love your plants to much.
just to give you some idea, i have 9 plants in a 50 ltr wilma system,on day 21 of 12/12
there fed 3 times a day for 15mins a time.
the E.C is 2.0
the ph is set at 5.5 / 6
over the next 1 to 7 days the ph will steadily rise to around 6.1/ .2
during those 1 to 7 days i may have to add some plain ph water just to top it up.
on day 7 i change it and start again.
If you go to canna and put your ressy size in and use there light feeding schedule your still not feeding enough.
personally i dont think youve got anything to worry just give them a bit longer feed times and a little more food and i think you'll crack it.
BoB
buddin_904
Member
yea pH problems in ricirulating are the reason i have never tried this method.....im not interested in adjusting pH on a regular/daily basis....sorry for your troubles...wish i could throw some advice in there but i have none on a ricirc system....
only advice i have is could you possibly revamp the system to have the stagnant rez feed to run off an collect the run off in a seperate bin and then just dispose of this in the toilet...
as others stated the run off from your plants going back into the recirc rez WILL alter the pH as some nutes are absorped some are not and this will effectively fuck up your rez nutrient profile...as i stated this is the reason i dont want to run a recirc system.....
idk man....search some threads on some experienced guys who regularly run recirc and see what their advice is on this problem......if all else fails go back to DTW!
only advice i have is could you possibly revamp the system to have the stagnant rez feed to run off an collect the run off in a seperate bin and then just dispose of this in the toilet...
as others stated the run off from your plants going back into the recirc rez WILL alter the pH as some nutes are absorped some are not and this will effectively fuck up your rez nutrient profile...as i stated this is the reason i dont want to run a recirc system.....
idk man....search some threads on some experienced guys who regularly run recirc and see what their advice is on this problem......if all else fails go back to DTW!
gaius and Bob-Hope :
I took the circulation pump out this morning, adjusted my ph down to 5.7 (was at 6.5). and watched the cycle time for the drip. I should specify that I have a 9-site manifold that's running 2x 1/4" open lines to each plant, except 1x. That one plant only has 1x line, but is ALOT smaller than the rest.
After watching the cycle time, I realized I needed to extend it, so doubled it to 2x mins at lights on and 2x hours before lights off. I'll add a third feed to the middle of the lights on period. I still need to watch the next cycle and see how far the tray fills, may need another time extension. Is it a overkill to have the run-off flood so a 7" deep tray is 2" deep with run-off, draining in a minute or two?
I'm sure you can tell I'm new to the drip scene. I really appreciate the feedback, I'm learning tremendously.
If I may clarify what I believe I have learned so far:
1) No circulation pump or airstone, just pump to feed plants.
2) PH drift is good, safe range is 5.2 - 6.2.
3) If res EC is higher after feed than before, Nutes are too high.
4) If res EC is lower after feed than before, Nutes are too low.
5) Ph drift of .1 in course of 24 hours is nothing to freak out about.
I took the circulation pump out this morning, adjusted my ph down to 5.7 (was at 6.5). and watched the cycle time for the drip. I should specify that I have a 9-site manifold that's running 2x 1/4" open lines to each plant, except 1x. That one plant only has 1x line, but is ALOT smaller than the rest.
After watching the cycle time, I realized I needed to extend it, so doubled it to 2x mins at lights on and 2x hours before lights off. I'll add a third feed to the middle of the lights on period. I still need to watch the next cycle and see how far the tray fills, may need another time extension. Is it a overkill to have the run-off flood so a 7" deep tray is 2" deep with run-off, draining in a minute or two?
I'm sure you can tell I'm new to the drip scene. I really appreciate the feedback, I'm learning tremendously.
If I may clarify what I believe I have learned so far:
1) No circulation pump or airstone, just pump to feed plants.
2) PH drift is good, safe range is 5.2 - 6.2.
3) If res EC is higher after feed than before, Nutes are too high.
4) If res EC is lower after feed than before, Nutes are too low.
5) Ph drift of .1 in course of 24 hours is nothing to freak out about.
yeah that sums it up well, just the ph, i would not let it go so low as 5.2, i never let it lower then 5.6, ideally set it to 5.8 ten a few days later you might have to lower it again. so instead of 5.2 to 6.2 try for 5.6 to 6.2, ideally 5.8 when you set it.
run off is good, but you dont need too much run off either. just as long as you get some run off from each plant you are fine. as the plants grow it's normal for them to use more nutrient solution so you have to increase the pump time.
good growings
run off is good, but you dont need too much run off either. just as long as you get some run off from each plant you are fine. as the plants grow it's normal for them to use more nutrient solution so you have to increase the pump time.
good growings
gaius, if i could trouble you on one other piece of advice. I know that you can't follow a feed chart exactly and expect not to have some issues. I used Canna's online calculator, and the numbers seem a little high to me. would you mind please reviewing the chart and give me some feedback.
I used 17 gallons for res calculations instead of the 20 gallons the tote actually is , but I'm not filling the container all the way up. I also let me water stand for 24 hrs before adding to res, and the EC=.424
I used 17 gallons for res calculations instead of the 20 gallons the tote actually is , but I'm not filling the container all the way up. I also let me water stand for 24 hrs before adding to res, and the EC=.424
Attachments
i have long stopped using manufacturers recommendations when it comes to nutrient levels.
i find myself hardly ever using more the 3/4 of whats recommended, mostly i use just over half the 4ml per lt of each a and b thats recommended.
baby clones get from 0.8 to 1.1 ec
vegging plants get from 1.2 to 1.5
flowering plants get from 1.4 to 1.8 depending on the strain and phase of the grow. i find that the first 2 weeks of 12/12 you have to be generous with the ec, but after about 14 to 21 days dpending on strain you can level off again to 1.6
thats an average, you need to spend time staring at your plants and keep a note of what ec levels you are giving when. this will help you for next run and gives a record of what you did in case it all goes perfect
look at the plants, specially the new growth will show you what your nute levels are doing to the plants. you dont want the fan leaves to be so dark green they look nearly purple, but also not too light green either and again strain will play a roll too. some plants love totally high fert levels and make big fat buds, but other stains will not produce their full potential if you push them all the time.
i find myself hardly ever using more the 3/4 of whats recommended, mostly i use just over half the 4ml per lt of each a and b thats recommended.
baby clones get from 0.8 to 1.1 ec
vegging plants get from 1.2 to 1.5
flowering plants get from 1.4 to 1.8 depending on the strain and phase of the grow. i find that the first 2 weeks of 12/12 you have to be generous with the ec, but after about 14 to 21 days dpending on strain you can level off again to 1.6
thats an average, you need to spend time staring at your plants and keep a note of what ec levels you are giving when. this will help you for next run and gives a record of what you did in case it all goes perfect
look at the plants, specially the new growth will show you what your nute levels are doing to the plants. you dont want the fan leaves to be so dark green they look nearly purple, but also not too light green either and again strain will play a roll too. some plants love totally high fert levels and make big fat buds, but other stains will not produce their full potential if you push them all the time.
Just wanted to update, my res ph finally settled down, everything was looking good. I went to check in the other day, and found that my 400w lumatek died. Being that I had to send it out for repair, I was stuck with a difficult choice. Use a magnetic 1000 mh, or bite the bullet and go to the shop for a new lumatek. I decided to just use the 1000mh, with a magnum xxxl reflector (little strapped for both new reflector and ballast). I know that traditionally mh is for veg and hps for flower, but I was was along the lines of thinking that almost tripling my wattage, even though it's mh, would lead to better results.
Am i correct in this line of thinking? I will be upgrading to a lumatek eventually, just wondering what to expect flowering with a mh instead of the hps?
Pictures will be forthcoming in a little.
Thanks
Oh, and Gaius:
on your post above, you have the general EC posted as a guide, I had a question- Is the EC levels indicated overall (including the EC of starting water) or just the nutes themselves? I know it's just a guide, but looking for a little better understanding.
Am i correct in this line of thinking? I will be upgrading to a lumatek eventually, just wondering what to expect flowering with a mh instead of the hps?
Pictures will be forthcoming in a little.
Thanks
Oh, and Gaius:
on your post above, you have the general EC posted as a guide, I had a question- Is the EC levels indicated overall (including the EC of starting water) or just the nutes themselves? I know it's just a guide, but looking for a little better understanding.
my tap ec is 0.25 so low that i ignore it. when i say ec so and so, it means including the tap water ec. i tend to get better results with not pushing too much fertwise
just one more question, if I could...
I did mention I had issue with the 400 hps ballast I was using, and was forced to switch over to a 1000w MH. I know that traditionally MH is veg, HPS is flower, an a combo of both during flower is good too.
My question is am I going to notice a difference when finished this run since I'm using MH instead of HPS?
thanks for all the responses so far, i've learned alot
I did mention I had issue with the 400 hps ballast I was using, and was forced to switch over to a 1000w MH. I know that traditionally MH is veg, HPS is flower, an a combo of both during flower is good too.
My question is am I going to notice a difference when finished this run since I'm using MH instead of HPS?
thanks for all the responses so far, i've learned alot
