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NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
The people who deny by ridicule only show how they fear how others see the truth. Why not just respond and tell me my folly? Then I could grow and change insted of re explaining myself to sarcastic jousters.

People have been trying to do just that but everytime they do you find fault with the points they're using.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Actually, they found a bacteria that has evolved the ability to use either P or As in its DNA. The bacteria comes from an environment already very high in As and very low in P, and had evolved this characteriatic before the scientists discovered it.

The scientist did nothing to alter the organism, they only discovered how the organism had evolved to be capable of adapting to its ever fluctuating environment.

Did you read this whole article? It expands on the original summary I posted...
http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3698/thriving-on-arsenic

No I didn't read the whole article, actually I was reading about it in an entirely different article, before I ever saw it mentioned here yesterday. I said it was created rather then discovered because they essentially changed it's environment in a way that theoretically should have killed it but it adapted in real time and incorporated the change on a fundemental level. I do see though that it is fair to say the ability pre-existed so I guess discover is a better word then created.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I was considering the arguement being made that the US would be better off spending the money it spends on NASA, on solving problems on earth rather then furthering space exploration. To properly consider that I had to find out what the US government spends yearly on NASA.

I found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg

Turns out that the US spends less then .5% of it's budget on NASA. .39% to be specific, which works out to 18.7 Billion. Now 18.7 billion dollars sounds like alot of money and it is, relatively speaking when compared to the amount of money the average person deals with in their lifetime. On a global scale it's a mere drop in the bucket. The US spends about that much every year on AIDS research and we aren't making much progress there. Plus while there may be some, I'm not aware of any offshoot technologies we have gained from AIDS research.

Offshoot technologies are critical to consider because they represent a return on investment. There are a range of estimates of the return on investment from NASA research from as low as $7 for every $1 of taxpayer money spent to as high as $23 for every $1 of taxpayer money spent. This return comes in the former of major industries that improve the quality of life, make things safer, provides jobs, adds to GDP and increases tax revenue from sources other then Income Tax which should mean Income Tax can be lowered (although we know that almost never happens except for the wealthy). Now the benefits go even further because it is exactly this kind or research leading to innovations that got the USA to the point of being a super power. It's the profitability of such innovations that unable us to donate as much as 300 Billion yearly to Charity for the last several years (including private donations).

If we suddenly stopped this type of research to spend on benefiting the poor and hungry there would still be millions upon millions of poor needing help and food and we would no longer have this stream of revenue coming in from new innovations, no jobs coming from building the industries to capitalize on these innovations and therefore less money to contribute to charity to help the poor and hungry.

Taking that same chart you could lower defense spending by just 1% and free up almost 3 times as much money to help the poor and starving.

See it's not as simple as the government is wasting your money to see if there is life in outerspace.
 

Honkytonk

Member
And imagine all the NASA nerds that would have to leave their natural habitat if NASA lost it's funding. Chaos and destruction would ensue while society struggles to integrate them. USD18.7B is a small price to pay to prevent that.
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
IMHO NASA's actions in some part are controlled by private interests that use NASA's scientific gains to get free R&D on our tax dollars

Bingo! Let tax dollars pay for your r&d...who would have thought? That whole long list of stuff that manufacturers made a BOAT LOAD of money on...YOU and I paid for the research through tax dollars. How about a percent of the profits there buddy? You're making a killing on research "I" paid for.

Actually, since NASA get's all that money, and hasn't "done anything" lately, I think it's being used to hide our deficit.

Government and multinational corporations are the SAME thing...the same people shuffling back and forth. Tax money also shuffles back in forth. Until you understand that business and government are the same people playing both sides and one against the other at the same time...you don't stand a chance of EVER understanding how corrupt it all is. It's a HUGE good 'ol boys club stealing us blind...to make themselves money. Is there an altruistic motive behind NASA for instance? No...it's guys working an angle to make money!!! Ex corporate executives "retire" into government and then work to help their industry... It's ALL fixed...and you don't know it. Look at the stock market...going up because the "fed" is pumping $7 BILLION a day into the markets...the worthless bond market specifically. That's the YEARLY earnings of a major international corporation...being pumped into the bond market to hold up the world. If they can't convince the "people" that everything is OK and they go back to spend spend spend...it's all going to collapse. Government is nothing more than a giant pyramid scheme that relies on "growth" at the bottom. Growing population, growing economy, growing debt. IF you understood "fractional banking" you'd understand how fragile it all is. The "Fed" (a rich uncle) now "owns" more treasury bonds than China. China AND the "Fed" now own the US. The fed bought the "toxic" mortgage backed securities from the overseas banks during the last bailout...I could go on forever.

Bottom line...corporations own the government because it's populated with its hand chosen people (you vote for 2 people who were each hand chosen for that office, you're not ELECTING anyone...just picking which lackey they get in office). Research is paid for by the government/industrial coalition and is therefore many times suspect. Propaganda is the name of the game...believe nothing.

Ummm, you need to reread the story. These arsenic eating bacteria didn't just simply evolve. The people doing the research changed their environment and they adapted.

Actually, I didn't. I had heard it on the "news" and they were going with the "alien life" angle. I apologize.

But my reasoning is still valid. Arsenic is in the same column on the periodic table...that means it CAN be substituted easily with P due to electron shell configuration. That's where a lot of plant problems come from and why you need to watch your ratios. Too much of a similar element leads to the right one being locked out. Ca and Mg are the same situation. This bacteria doesn't mind the substitution evidently...that's ALL it proves. It's a stupid story. It's like finding a plant that can live without Mg and substitute Ca for everything.

It's a life form using what it HAS. If you give it nothing but As and no P, SOME lifeforms can substitute it and live. Some cannot. And it is due to an ability to metabolize differently. It's not a big deal. Someone else mentioned the deep sea vents where life used hydrogen sulfide for energy. It's life adapting...nothing more.

Head,

So that's going to be your game? Neg reputation hits whenever you see me now? As a moderator or an administrator...is that REALLY proper behavior? You banned me...now this... You've got issues my boy!


STOP harassing me with your power! Make it a FAIR fight! Untie my hands if you're going to keep picking on me!!! TRY to be a man... Look up the word "douche bag"...and stop being one.

I DISAGREE with your government propaganda...I DESERVE to be heard...as EVERYONE else does too. This isn't your private little forum...stop acting as it is! Yes, when I think you're wrong...I tell everyone. Am I hurting your feelings? Is THAT it? Stop being a baby. We're ALL old/mature enough so a few "hurtful" words won't destroy us. Let it go...let people speak. Stop with the "Idea Nazism"...you're NOT all knowing! Not by a long shot!

So, if you'll stop hitting me with the negative rep...can we move on and you can stay out of my life? Or...let me settle it like a man...and not get stabbed in the back again by you again.

I BET you delete this too...and give me ANOTHER two week vacation...so be it...I still have my respect...what did you get? Another set of rose colored glasses to wear around the world so as to see everything as YOU believe it is?
 
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Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
B
Head,

So that's going to be your game? Neg reputation hits whenever you see me now? As a moderator or an administrator...is that REALLY proper behavior? You banned me...now this... You've got issues my boy!

are you stupid? I've already straightened out these malicious lies once already.
I am not an administrator or moderator.
I have partial mod powers in one small sub-forum.
Do you see Moderator or Admin under my name anywhere?
Is my name highlighted in a different color like the Site mods and admin are?
No...

I cannot ban anyone or get anyone banned!

Asshats who cannot comprehend and follow the site's rules get themselves banned.

You earned your ban by continuously disregarding the site's rules as far as I can tell, and given your inability to separate reality from politics and racism, I'm sure you'll do so again.

And yes... Everytime you choose to make an offensive statement and you direct it at me I will neg rep it. If you don't like it, ignore my posts instead of trolling them.

You've got issues, my boy... issues understanding civility, issues grasping reality, issues recognizing truth, and issues comprehending what you read.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Actually, I didn't. I had heard it on the "news" and they were going with the "alien life" angle. I apologize.

But my reasoning is still valid. Arsenic is in the same column on the periodic table...that means it CAN be substituted easily with P due to electron shell configuration. That's where a lot of plant problems come from and why you need to watch your ratios. Too much of a similar element leads to the right one being locked out. Ca and Mg are the same situation. This bacteria doesn't mind the substitution evidently...that's ALL it proves. It's a stupid story. It's like finding a plant that can live without Mg and substitute Ca for everything.

It's a life form using what it HAS. If you give it nothing but As and no P, SOME lifeforms can substitute it and live. Some cannot. And it is due to an ability to metabolize differently. It's not a big deal. Someone else mentioned the deep sea vents where life used hydrogen sulfide for energy. It's life adapting...nothing more.

It's not nearly quite as simply as you're making it sound. First of all due to the discovery of this bacteria we're having to totally rethink what we call life because this form of life changes the definition. Also it's not that life just evolved this way because that's what it had to work with. Undisturbed, life evolved in those waters to survive a hostile environment but they still had a source for phospherous and therefore still used it just like every other form of life that we knew of. Then the scientists removed the phospherous and the thing evolved in real time to substitute Arsenic for phospherous and incorporate it into it's DNA thereby making it unlike any life we knew of.

Which for all intents and purposes would make it alien life. The headlines weren't misleading, people mislead themselves thru assumption.

So it's like finding a plant that can live without magnesium and substitute Calcium for everything. In other words like finding a form of life that doesn't match anything we know or understand about life. :rolleyes:
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
Indeed, hempkat... most of the definitions of the word alien have nothing to do with outer space.

alien |ˈālyən; ˈālēən|
adjective
belonging to a foreign country or nation.
• unfamiliar and disturbing or distasteful : bossing anyone around was alien to him | they found the world of adult education a little alien.
• [ attrib. ] relating to or denoting beings supposedly from other worlds; extraterrestrial : an alien spacecraft.
• (of a plant or animal species) introduced from another country and later naturalized.
noun
a foreigner, esp. one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living : an illegal alien.
• a hypothetical or fictional being from another world.
• a plant or animal species originally introduced from another country and later naturalized.
DERIVATIVES
alienness noun
ORIGIN Middle English : via Old French from Latin alienus ‘belonging to another,’ from alius ‘other.’
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I'm getting real sick of some of the rep messages I'm seeing people send to each other. If someone were to say these things to me in real life I'd throw them on the ground.

I'm getting fed up and it's going to stop now. And you know who you are that's doing it.... If you think I'm fooling keep doing it and you'll see I'm not.....

I'm not saying it again........ And I'll be keeping a close eye on things from here on.....
 
J

juicepuddle

are you stupid? I've already straightened out these malicious lies once already.
I am not an administrator or moderator.
I have partial mod powers in one small sub-forum.
Do you see Moderator or Admin under my name anywhere?
Is my name highlighted in a different color like the Site mods and admin are?
No...

I cannot ban anyone or get anyone banned!

Asshats who cannot comprehend and follow the site's rules get themselves banned.

You earned your ban by continuously disregarding the site's rules as far as I can tell, and given your inability to separate reality from politics and racism, I'm sure you'll do so again.

And yes... Everytime you choose to make an offensive statement and you direct it at me I will neg rep it. If you don't like it, ignore my posts instead of trolling them.

You've got issues, my boy... issues understanding civility, issues grasping reality, issues recognizing truth, and issues comprehending what you read.

He probably was just confused considering the green bar of text that shows you who is a mod is exactly the same as the one you have, the only difference is the word supporter instead of moderator.

Its kinda obvious you know this "Is my name highlighted in a different color like the Site mods and admin are?" lol yeah it is different, its just like the mods rofl, your just trying to make him look bad because he was mistaken.

Why so upset at people.
 

sac beh

Member
How did this thread turn to discussing conspiracy theories surrounding H3ad's (non-)mod/admin status? :thinking:

This article is from 2009, and helps highlight what we knew and what is new:

The fourth possibility is the most intriguing: weird life is here, and it may very well be hidden. It can be hidden in Earth’s most extreme environments where it does not have to compete with regular Earth life for resources; or it may be hidden in plain sight, with a biochemistry so foreign that it is not detectable by the means we currently employ. Also, it’s a safe assumption that extant weird life is microbial, with all due respect to pink elephants.

One idea that has been proposed was Arsenic based life. Arsenic (As) is an element that is chemically similar to Phosphorous (P). Phosphorous is essential to life in many aspects: a constitute in the backbone of RNA and DNA, a component of enzyme cofactors and as an informational and energy unit in the cell. In fact, Arsenic’s toxicity is due to its similarity to Phosphorous: by competing with phosphate (PO43-) in mitochondria, Arsenate (AsO43-) prevents the formation of ATP, blocking respiration.

Since 1994 it has been known that As(III) is used by some eubacteria as an electron acceptor in respiration of some bacteria. Recently, bacteria inhabiting the alkaline shores of Mono Lake, California were found to be using Arsenic(III) as an electron donor in photosynthesis. It is not inconceivable that Arsenic, in some form, may be have been used as a Phosphorous replacement, although the latter, much more fundamental biochemical change, has not been found yet; not even in the Mono Lake bacteria.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
He probably was just confused considering the green bar of text that shows you who is a mod is exactly the same as the one you have, the only difference is the word supporter instead of moderator.

Its kinda obvious you know this "Is my name highlighted in a different color like the Site mods and admin are?" lol yeah it is different, its just like the mods rofl, your just trying to make him look bad because he was mistaken.

Why so upset at people.

No it is not. My name is the exact same color as every non-mod/admin member. It is not highlighted in Light BLue or Green like the admin's at all. Everyone who has the power to ban someone has a light blue or green name. Lot's of non-mod non-admin people who contribute financially to the site have the supporter tag, and there are several other non-mod tags besides.

I told him before that I have no power at all to punish or ban anyone, So I don't understand how he could be genuinely confused about it. He wasn't mistaken, he was accusatory in spite of having been given correct info to the contrary.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
How did this thread turn to discussing conspiracy theories surrounding H3ad's (non-)mod/admin status? :thinking:

Someone has an attitude toward me because they imagine that I did something to them, which in actuality they did to themselves.
 

BrainSellz

Active member
Veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVSJLUIQrA0
I like the video, all the scientists have a smirk on their face. Check out the third chick with the nose ring, I bet she's a stoner, haha!
q n a was weird......"maybe we can find et now", she did not just say that.....;) lol. Went from "changing text books as we know it" to possibly changing a paragragh....and great announcer...lol....and one of the scientists says "jim your practically breathless with your ideas, im sure youll be looking for money soon"....... and one last thing is they still found phosphorus in the cell that they said wasnt there......i will keep my opinion to myself.....some is just hard to listen to
 

BrainSellz

Active member
Veteran
LOL yea there were some funny remarks in the video. Makes you wonder about life on other planets though, could be something entirely different than we imagine.
hopefully taking the "little green men" theory off the board:D.....i would say yes to the entirely different than whats imagined IF life was on another place or planet or what have you. The dude pulled out the chains and i was like say whaaaa...lol
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
He probably was just confused considering the green bar of text that shows you who is a mod is exactly the same as the one you have, the only difference is the word supporter instead of moderator.

Its kinda obvious you know this "Is my name highlighted in a different color like the Site mods and admin are?" lol yeah it is different, its just like the mods rofl, your just trying to make him look bad because he was mistaken.

Why so upset at people.

Funny, his name looks totally different to me then JJScorpio's. I was always under the impression anyone could have that nifty supporter thing under their name, all they have to do is contribute money to help keep ICMag running?
 

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