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U.S. Push Zero Tolerance Laws

vta

Active member
Veteran
US Gov’t hyping threat of drugged drivers to push zero tolerance DUID laws
By "Radical" Russ Belville on November 30, 2010



(UPDATED with helpful research from Paul Armentano.)

The headline from the Associated Press reads “Gov’t: Drugs were in 1 in 5 drivers killed in 2009“. The lede for the story is:
About 1 in 5 drivers who were killed last year in car crashes tested positive for drugs, raising concerns about the impact of drugs on auto safety, the government reported Tuesday.

Other outlets like USA Today give it a more chilling headline “U.S.: Third of tests on motorists killed shows drug use“. The discrepancy results from the AP considering all drivers who were killed when not every driver killed was drug tested. The USA Today considers the “tests on motorists killed”, thereby discounting the roughly 40% of killed drivers who were never drug tested. Whatever – 20% of all drivers or 33% of all drivers tested – they’re dead, they drove, there’s drugs, be afraid!

The AP then follows with a second paragraph that points out the obvious logical fallacy of “correlation = causation” – just because dead drivers had drugs in their system doesn’t mean drugs caused the accident that killed them - something the USA Today article never addresses:

Researchers with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the new data underscored a growing problem of people driving with drugs in their systems. But they cautioned that it was not clear that drugs caused the crashes and more research was needed to determine how certain drugs can hinder a person’s ability to drive safely.

However, while AP doesn’t get around to distinguishing what exactly “drugs” refers to until paragraph seven, USA Today opens by explaining we’re talking about all drugs, prescription and recreational:

One-third of all the drug tests done on drivers killed in motor vehicle accidents came back positive for drugs ranging from hallucinogens to prescription pain killers last year — a 5 percentage point increase since 2005, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration reported Tuesday.

Nobody recommends driving while impaired by drugs – legal or illegal. NORML has maintained this as a core Principle of Responsible Use for years. But there are many legal prescription drugs that will cause impairment that bear the warning “Until you know how you may be affected by this drug, do not drive or operate heavy machinery,” which suggests to me that once you do know how it affects you, it’s your judgment call. In fact, one of those drugs is prescription dronabinol, the synthetic cannabinoid THC marketed as “Marinol”.

AP’s seventh paragraph also points out that presence of a drug in your system may have no bearing on whether that drug was impairing you in the first place:
The tests took into account both legal and illegal drugs, including heroin, methadone, morphine, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, LSD, prescription drugs and inhalants. The amount of time the drug could linger in the body varied by drug type, the researchers said, so it was unclear when the drivers had used the drugs prior to the fatal crashes.

Cannabis metabolites can be detectable in urine for weeks and THC itself can be detected blood for at least six hours. Most illegal drugs can be detected for a few days in urine and a few hours in blood. Prescription drugs are just as varied. So we’ve got 20% or 33% of killed drivers who had a drug in their system that may or may not have contributed to the crash that killed them and they may or may not have taken that drug before driving.

For comparison’s sake, USA Today links to the stat that drowsiness was a factor in 17% of all fatal crashes. You just may be more likely to die in a crash caused by lack of a nap as by taking the pill to get a good night’s sleep. Are you scared yet? Well, you should be, because the whole point of scaring you about the drugged drivers is the push for nationwide zero-tolerance DUID laws. Back to the USA Today:

Gil Kerlikowske, director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, called the numbers of fatalities involving drugs “alarmingly high,” and called for more states to pass laws making it a crime to have illegal drugs in the body while driving, no matter how much. Seventeen states already have such laws.

The lack of research also presents a problem for lawmakers to develop laws. They can outlaw the use of all illegal drugs while driving, but what about someone who took a prescription sleeping pill a few hours ago?
Since they can outlaw the illegal drugs and there is no political cost in doing so, they will. These “zero tolerance” laws means if they detect any metabolite of any illegal drug, you are guilty of driving impaired. Since that joint you smoked could be detectable long after its effects had worn off, you’d be an impaired driver in the eyes of the law even if you were completely sober and unimpaired. Since marijuana is detectable for much longer periods than most any other drug, legal or illegal, “zero tolerance” laws amount to witch hunts for cannabis consumers behind the wheel.

The irony here is that compared to the threat from drinking drivers, drowsy drivers, texting drivers, and prescription drugged drivers, the threat from drivers using cannabis is negligible. Just last week we took a look at a study in the Netherlands that showed that experienced users can develop a tolerance to the psychomotor impairing effects of cannabis. This summer we examined a study performed in Iowa and Connecticut that showed cannabis-using drivers performed as well on a driving simulator after smoking marijuana as they did before smoking marijuana. (If you’d like the full examination of marijuana and driving, please see Paul Armentano’s impeccable white paper, Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review.)

As for the prescription drugs, there isn’t much political benefit in threatening a majority of your constituents, especially the older ones who do most of the voting, with a DUI charge for the pills they’re required to take every day. Also consider the lobbying money and clout of Big Pharma that won’t look kindly on strict new driving laws that might cause people to use less pills.

No, the per se limit on prescription drugs isn’t coming to your state anytime soon… but maybe the end of driving privileges for cannabis consumers in your state is. The seventeen states with current per se DUID laws are:

Arizona (except for medical marijuana patients), Utah, South Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Delaware, and Georgia already have these zero tolerance laws for any THC or metabolites of THC – if you toked within the past week, you could already be an impaired driver.
Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Rhode Island have zero tolerance for THC in the blood – if you toked before bed you might be an impaired driver in the morning.
Nevada and Ohio consider you impaired if they detect 2 nanograms (2 billionths of a gram) of THC per milliliter of blood (2ng/ml) and Pennsylvania raises that limit to 5ng/ml.
Virginia, Minnesota, and North Carolina have zero tolerance laws for drugs that do not include cannabis or its metabolites.
 

vta

Active member
Veteran
picture.php


The little red police cars show you the zero-tolerance states. If there is a time next to it, like 24h, that's the mandatory jail time you serve immediately.
 
T

Tr33

They need to change CO to dark blue, well at least the town of Nederland, where Cannabis is not decriminalized...it has been completely Legalized in all forms June 1st 2010, from Possession, Transportation, Cultivation to Sale allowed.

It's Denver, CO and Breckenridge, CO where they decriminalized cannabis with penalties for amounts over an ounce.
Not in Nederland, CO there are no penalties!
 

ROJO145

Active member
Veteran
Seen a commercial last night and new immiediatly where the spin was heading!!Sounds like Nederland is the place to live!!:wave:
 

P@ssw0rd

New member
The Michigan Supreme court recently amended our drugged driving laws to allow for medical marijuana patients. My current understanding of the law is that you cannot be convicted based on metabolites alone but if you are "Visibly intoxicated" in the officers opinion you may still be headed for trouble.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
I have been told by cops, "If I smell weed on your breath, you just got a DUI.", when pulled over and admitted to having weed (and a Rec)--
Luckily, I had just ate, and not smoked after!! lol
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
DUID is fucking bullshit. I got one of these even though I was completely sober and passed all field tests. It's the equivilant of arresting someone for having a beer months after consuming. I don't know how you can make a claim someone is driving under the influence if they are sober...such a load of shit. I'm bout fed the fuck up with this country. If they pass that shit nationwide I'm moving to Mexico.
 

Deft

Get two birds stoned at once
Veteran
This means that if we can surreptitiously introduce cannabis to the politician food supply they won't be able to legally drive for a month.

:smoke:
 

David762

Member
Man, oh man, but that is an evil idea ...

Man, oh man, but that is an evil idea ...

This means that if we can surreptitiously introduce cannabis to the politician food supply they won't be able to legally drive for a month.

:smoke:

and I like it. ;)

But this will not work with the LEOs, judges & prosecutors, and politicians that actually hold the power over all the rest of us -- they are above the law. Bribery, extortion, fraud, and even murder -- they get a "get out of jail free" pass on the entire legal system.

That is in the nature of a totalitarian system. And please don't get me started on the Janus-faced Obama regime regarding "halting DEA raids versus Leonhart & strict DUID enforcement".
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
this is what Jim Lahey said.... lol

this is what Jim Lahey said.... lol

^that is what the second amendment is for. they piss off enough people the boiling shit will hit the fan; everyone in that whole country can see the shit cauldron starting to bubble. it would be wise to be prepared for a giant shit geyser in the next decade. get your umbrellas ponchos, and soap.

then he chugged a fifth and stumbled off...

then some one in the back ground said fuck off Mr. Lahey, and told randy to put a fucking shirt on too cover that hairy cheese burger gut.
 

jgrow

Member
This means that if we can surreptitiously introduce cannabis to the politician food supply they won't be able to legally drive for a month.

:smoke:

We really need to get the entire country high for a few weeks, so we can all realize our gov't is so back ass words, and fix this damn country. If not im leaving.
 
E

el Dream Reader

I see this as a vengeful response to the medical and legalization measures. It's all about control and power at the fed level, it has nothing to do with science, morality or law. It's about their safe feeling that they get thinking that they have control of the people. In my opinion it is very sad and pathetic that they are so frightened about losing control of a plant that they would do an end run around our rights to try and punish us.
The fact is: half of the country is on prescription drugs, read your labels, if it says use caution while driving or may cause drowsiness then legally you can't drive while taking it, how many prescription drugs have that label?, probably half of them so at least a quarter of Americans would be affected by this law.

It's kind of tough to have respect for the government when they create laws based on vengeful feelings instead of fact.
 
B

Ben Tokin

What bullshit! I've driven every state of the US, all 50, racking up a few million miles over the past so many years. Tokin' on the best shit man has grown and never had an accident and never caused one. I'm probably one of the most courteous and safest driver you'll ever find on the road. I don't play games and never take my eye off the road or other vehicles around me.

Alcohol, fatigue, pain medications and emotional and careless drivers are mostly to blame for 99 pct of accidents. Animals and mother nature make up the last 1 pct.

I have seen police cause more accidents than cannabis. There is a known technique used by highway cops to blend into traffic with unmarked patrol cars. They will tailgate cars and block the passing lane traveling just below the speed limit. When you try to go around them they will speed up so that you speed up, or, they will stop you for agressive driving when you try to pass on the right side. Be careful out on the highway because these techniques are used quite often and there are more and more unmarked cars on the road lately. These fuckers are a danger to everyone and they could care less.

Everytime I see traffic slow down on a busy highway causing traffic jams and dangerous start and stop conditions, chances are there's a marked or unmarked cop car playing reckless games with peoples lives.
 

soniq

Member
oh good. Now all the patients in the 14 (arizona excepted) states will not be able to drive to work with any metabolite present. Way to threaten the economy even further guys. I'm with big h3rb tr3e, it's time for unprecedented revolution or getting the hell out of here.

One problem: the rest of the usually-tolerant countries are clamping down..... now with the US planning to bail out the EU (not sure how the budget can handle 900billion more in the hole right now, but hey, whatever); i'm sure they'll attach prohibition to the stipulations somehow

isn't enough enough by now ? seriously, how much more absurd can things get ?

The only way around this, if it passes, is to lean heavy on a state's rights push to determine impairment.
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
just refuse a drug test. never submit, never plead guilty, never let them send you too prison. if they say you are guilty then fuck them, and just leave forever. FUCK THEM!

this gets me thinking. I wonder how long before the government just starts making us check in ever few hour to make sure we are ok, like children? then if we dont check in with them for our protection we get imprisoned. In the prison all you do all day long is answer phone calls from people checking in.
 
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