What's new

Am I being schooled by a Miracle Gro Grower?

bsound

Member
So I have a question about my nutrient game, what am I doing wrong?

Ok, so my first few grows were with a local Afghani cut that I had no real proof of what it actually could have been. It was moderately hardy and somewhat finicky with nutrients. The buds were alright, nothing to write home about, but dank.


I used Fox Farm trio liquids and Cal\Mag plus by Botanicare. I experienced mild nute deficiencies here and there with this strain that seemed to be related to calcium from the sick plants guide, here is an image of what the def looked like:

1134calcium-1.jpg


Next 2 grows were with some Hashplant gifted to me that was supposedly ordered from BC somewhere. Those exhibited the same calcium deficiencies throughout the grow. All were mild but present and equally frustrating.

The last grow was all Hashplant with the exception of 3 Dumpster plants that I was fortunate enough to get cuts of.

For this grow I switched to Advanced (just for the hell of it). I am running the 3 part Grow Micro Bloom nutes also with the Cal\Mag supplement. The Hashplant exhibited some nute (calcium i think\hope) deficiencies but the dumpster hardly exhibited anything, maybe some very very mild cal.-looking deficiencies on very low nodes.

For most of the feeding schedules they were feed water, feed water. On the feedings, I would use a tsp. of Cal\Mag or two (if I saw the cal-like defs i'm talking about) plus whatever the bottles called for. I always went by the bottle but I also worked my way up from light strength to half to full throughout the grow and never really burnt anything from what i could tell. But I always got these cal. deficiencies throughout most of the grows, some were pretty mild, others got more intense but still not so bad. You could always see the cal in the beginning and it would seem like it would go away with feeding the cal\mag but would come back here and there throughout flowering.

So now, this grow, we're running all Dumpster finally and my friend has used miracle gro for tomatoes (even though I'm against it) the entire way through and the plants have not shown one single def, they are perfect looking plants. They are about 2-3 weeks in flower and nice lush green.


Am I doing something wrong? Is it just the Dumpster strain that is handling the food? This strain is by far the sturdiest, biggest healthiest plants we've had and seem to be the most resilient. Like I said, i can't seem to remember the dumpster exhibiting any deficiencies when I ran the 3 under the advanced program with cal. \ mag.

Now I'm moving out and i'm afraid to run my advanced line on my first run because the miracle grow run looks so perfect.

All factors are exactly the same throughout all grows. The water is from the tap and is let to sit for 24 hrs to evaporate chlorine. The water was ph'ed to 6.3-6.5ish with a GH ph kit where you shake the vials. The miracle grow run the water is not PH'ed at all. I'd like to run RO water and have a unit but can't until I get my own spot.

I'm boggled, cus i've preached how i've read on here that miracle grow is terrible, but my friend's grow (same room same everything just diff nutes) looks better than any previous grows we've run. But at the same time the Dumpster strain is the best we've had, and the smoke is much much much better than any other strain we've run.

Help! What am I missing.



Also, it may be important to note that it's a 600w HPS grow in FFOF. A couple of the last grows with the FFOF had some old re-used FFOF cut into it. The miracle grow run was run in Miracle grow potting soil.

I'll post the specifics of the sick plants diagnosis questions if people want it.



Thanks so much. Good vibes to you all.

-b
 

Blueshark

Active member
How is your ph? If its too high, you could have nute lockout. Its my understanding that Miracle Grow will give you harsh smoke.
 

bsound

Member
I'm springing for a digital PH meter ( i had one but i bought it used and it never worked) when i move out, and ppm and all the good stuff so i can know exactly whats going on.

But from what the GH test kits showed me, every grow I used with fox farm or advanced was PH'ed to 6.3-6.5 (kinda hard to tell with the vial kits but it was very close) after nutes were added, in the right order, and stirred well.

and like I said, the miracle gro grow has not been PH'ed not once. I think he feeds them once a week now, but was feeding more frequently in veg.
 

Blueshark

Active member
My second grow (album) has one of my moms that I'm flowering. Agent Orange. That and a Super Silver Haze had Cal/Mag def I thought. Hit it with Cal/Mag and found out it was ph for the AO. I have since found out my SSH was rootbound. I use Fox Farm and the girls look real nice. Also have the trio of flowering granules.

Do you and the other grower use the same water source? City, well, rain water?
There is a wealth of info here on IC. Someone will see this thread and your pic and probably nail it right away. I'm still learning but getting up to speed quickly. I don't think it has anything to do with the FF nutes, as long as you mix them according to the instr. Take notes for yourself too. Good to look back at past problems for future solutions.
 

bsound

Member
My second grow (album) has one of my moms that I'm flowering. Agent Orange. That and a Super Silver Haze had Cal/Mag def I thought. Hit it with Cal/Mag and found out it was ph for the AO. I have since found out my SSH was rootbound. I use Fox Farm and the girls look real nice. Also have the trio of flowering granules.

Do you and the other grower use the same water source? City, well, rain water?
There is a wealth of info here on IC. Someone will see this thread and your pic and probably nail it right away. I'm still learning but getting up to speed quickly. I don't think it has anything to do with the FF nutes, as long as you mix them according to the instr. Take notes for yourself too. Good to look back at past problems for future solutions.

Me and the other grower share the same exact grow, he just opted to take care of this run and decided to use MG.

I had no beef with the fox farm either, but mixing the liquids was a pain because the tiger bloom would drop the damn PH of the water so much it was a pain my ass to use that GH PH kit to get it right, took damn near half an hour to mix water.

The Advance just seems pretty stable around 6.7-6.8 every time I mix water, so it only takes a few drops of PH down to correct and usually only one or two checks of the PH.

i'm curious, with the Fox Farm, did you experience the big bloom creating a powder at the bottom of your buckets soemtimes when you mixed? With the bloom added, the water would be like dark brown and you could see some of the powder fall out of the water when i was done watering.

Also, the pic was not mine and I took it from the Sick Plants thread and have read everything I can about the issue for years now. I just don't have too many pics of those grows to post and was never into posting much until recently, but I might able to dig up a few.
 

FlaDankster

Active member
Veteran
As you saw for yourself......you'd be surprised what can be done with "The Dreaded MG".I don't use it myself but have seen others use it with very good results.

Some of the smoke was "acceptable".....while some was GOOOOOD SHIT!!!

My opinion on the MG is that it's doable but very inconsistent.The soil anyways.Peeps always talk about pests and stuff but To me no matter what you buy/use for medium it should be treated for critters any way,if not you take chances down the road with pests.

You guys should check the PH on your MG just to compare.....it may have nothin to do with nothin.But you may figure something out.

FD
 
V

vonforne

So I have a question about my nutrient game, what am I doing wrong?

Ok, so my first few grows were with a local Afghani cut that I had no real proof of what it actually could have been. It was moderately hardy and somewhat finicky with nutrients. The buds were alright, nothing to write home about, but dank.


I used Fox Farm trio liquids and Cal\Mag plus by Botanicare. I experienced mild nute deficiencies here and there with this strain that seemed to be related to calcium from the sick plants guide, here is an image of what the def looked like:

1134calcium-1.jpg


Next 2 grows were with some Hashplant gifted to me that was supposedly ordered from BC somewhere. Those exhibited the same calcium deficiencies throughout the grow. All were mild but present and equally frustrating.

The last grow was all Hashplant with the exception of 3 Dumpster plants that I was fortunate enough to get cuts of.

For this grow I switched to Advanced (just for the hell of it). I am running the 3 part Grow Micro Bloom nutes also with the Cal\Mag supplement. The Hashplant exhibited some nute (calcium i think\hope) deficiencies but the dumpster hardly exhibited anything, maybe some very very mild cal.-looking deficiencies on very low nodes.

For most of the feeding schedules they were feed water, feed water. On the feedings, I would use a tsp. of Cal\Mag or two (if I saw the cal-like defs i'm talking about) plus whatever the bottles called for. I always went by the bottle but I also worked my way up from light strength to half to full throughout the grow and never really burnt anything from what i could tell. But I always got these cal. deficiencies throughout most of the grows, some were pretty mild, others got more intense but still not so bad. You could always see the cal in the beginning and it would seem like it would go away with feeding the cal\mag but would come back here and there throughout flowering.

So now, this grow, we're running all Dumpster finally and my friend has used miracle gro for tomatoes (even though I'm against it) the entire way through and the plants have not shown one single def, they are perfect looking plants. They are about 2-3 weeks in flower and nice lush green.


Am I doing something wrong? Is it just the Dumpster strain that is handling the food? This strain is by far the sturdiest, biggest healthiest plants we've had and seem to be the most resilient. Like I said, i can't seem to remember the dumpster exhibiting any deficiencies when I ran the 3 under the advanced program with cal. \ mag.

Now I'm moving out and i'm afraid to run my advanced line on my first run because the miracle grow run looks so perfect.

All factors are exactly the same throughout all grows. The water is from the tap and is let to sit for 24 hrs to evaporate chlorine. The water was ph'ed to 6.3-6.5ish with a GH ph kit where you shake the vials. The miracle grow run the water is not PH'ed at all. I'd like to run RO water and have a unit but can't until I get my own spot.

I'm boggled, cus i've preached how i've read on here that miracle grow is terrible, but my friend's grow (same room same everything just diff nutes) looks better than any previous grows we've run. But at the same time the Dumpster strain is the best we've had, and the smoke is much much much better than any other strain we've run.

Help! What am I missing.



Also, it may be important to note that it's a 600w HPS grow in FFOF. A couple of the last grows with the FFOF had some old re-used FFOF cut into it. The miracle grow run was run in Miracle grow potting soil.

I'll post the specifics of the sick plants diagnosis questions if people want it.



Thanks so much. Good vibes to you all.

-b

It is in your soil. Build a better one next time. Follow the link in my sig......Organics for Beginners. The answer to all of your questions and problems lie there.

V
 
C

CFL_Grow

I use the Miracle Grow, lol. The African Violet soil comes pre-PH'ed at 6.8. Add in a little extra perilite and it simply works. My plants are the proof. 3 weeks into flower and i have added no nutes, had no deficiencies, and had no lockouts.

I am not stating the my African Violet soil is the best out there. I am simply stating that it is decent, and it grows healthy MJ plants with just adding water.
 

Saul Silver

Member
While not the best,,, MG works quite well!!! As long as you flush for 2 weeks at the end,,, there is no harshness as everyone says!!!
 

bsound

Member
While not the best,,, MG works quite well!!! As long as you flush for 2 weeks at the end,,, there is no harshness as everyone says!!!

I'm glad people aren't afraid to come forward about it lol. It baffles me, why don't more people use it? I'm all about the science and things that go into the more high powered nutrients, but what's the deal? I should search for some more miracle grow research around here and see what the score is.

Vonforne, i think you may be right. After the first or second grow we always reused the FFOF after letting it sit out and chopped through it well, but cut it with more than half new FFOF.

I'm looking through my notes from the beginning of the last grow with the HP. I only kept records for so long but when I was feeding with plain water PH was 6.5, and when I fed plain cal-mag when they were young, the PH was about 6.7-6.8. Is that correct?

This chart seems to show that cal\mag is best received when used at that approximate range:
Nutrient_Chart.gif


When I would feed FF Grow, the PH was 6.5. I don't have any notes from flower but I think they were around 6.5 as well. I would adjust the range a bit depending on what I was feeding according to the above chart.
 

Greenheart

Active member
Veteran
MG works for me. In a 5 gallon bucket I will add

1.5 tbs (The large end of the included scoop)MG All Purpose
1.5 tbs worm castings
60 drops MG Liquid Houseplant Food
60 drops MG Liquafeed bloom booster
1/3 cup 0-45-0 triple super phosphate solution

I also add:

1 Cup Vinegar which I prefer as a ph down.
A variable quantity of Blackstrap Molasses.

I will then fill the bucket about 1/4 of the way with hot water (not boiling : think tea) and steep for 15 min.

I then begin to add cold water and beat with a whisk until a foam forms. Top off the bucket and feed to the plants. I found that this is my magic formula and works in all stages on my plants.

I have never noticed any "harshness" to my bud, nor has my wife. I think most of that has to do with my flushing methods. Before harvest I remove my plant from the container and wash away the soil on the rootmass. I then place my plant in a bucket of water with a 50 gallon aquarium bubbler and 4" circular airstone. I change this bucket at Lights On and Lights Off times for 2 weeks. When I first started trying to grow the MJ and was struggling a friend who is an 8yr veteran said "throw away all that ---- and go buy a box of MG All Purpose crystals" I did it grew better and then I experimented till I found something I liked that was cheap on my wallet. I make a 5 gallon bucket 2 times a week for $50 per year.

 

fabvariousk

Active member
Veteran
I started growing using miracle grow and if I still used fertilizer other than the stuff I put in the dirt at the beginning would still use it.
My take on Miracle Grow that in a offbeat way it may not be organic but is greener than most organics when you take into account what it is and where it comes from.
I think it is cool that a by product of industrial metals that is produced in the us creates a fertilizer that is inexpensive and immediately available to plants.
Don't get me wrong. I love my guanos and peats but they come at a real cost to where they come from and are expensive to have shipped here.
What is more envirofriendly? Using something local made from very renewable waste or mining thousand year old shit piles?
 
C

Carl Carlson

Maybe you're being schooled by someone with a better water supply.

This chart seems to show that cal\mag is best received when used at that approximate range:
Nutrient_Chart.gif


When I would feed FF Grow, the PH was 6.5. I don't have any notes from flower but I think they were around 6.5 as well. I would adjust the range a bit depending on what I was feeding according to the above chart.

Hi bsound,

The solubility of the nutrients is determined by the pH of the soil (or coco, peat, whatever the medium may be) around the roots, not in the reservoir or the water jug that you mix ferts up in.

You should buy an inexpensive test kit for water that includes alkalinity. Think pet stores or pond supply. Test that tap water before you use it again.

Total Alkalinity content in the water, not the water pH, is what has the biggest affect on medium pH.

Alkaline is not the same as Alkalinity

fyi:

pH Management and Plant Nutrition, Bill Argo

Part 2 Water Quality
Alkalinity is a measure of how much acid it takes to lower the pH below a certain level, also called acid-buffering capacity. Alkalinity is usually measured with a test kit where dilute acid is added until a color change occurs at a specific pH. Alkalinity is not a specific ion, but rather includes the concentration of several ions that affect acid-buffering capacity. Under most conditions, the ions that have the greatest effect on alkalinity are bicarbonates like calcium, magnesium, or sodium bicarbonate and, to a lesser extent, carbonates like calcium or sodium. Several other ions including hydroxides, phosphates, ammonium, silicates, sulfides, borates, and arsenate also can contribute to alkalinity, but their concentration is usually so low that they can be ignored.

[..]

Alkalinity (calcium bicarbonate, magnesium bicarbonate, and sodium bicarbonate) and limestone (calcium and magnesium carbonate) react very similarly when added to a substrate. And just like too much limestone, the use of irrigation water containing high levels of alkalinity can cause the pH of the substrate to increase above acceptable levels for healthy plant growth. cont.​
 

bsound

Member
Maybe you're being schooled by someone with a better water supply.



Hi bsound,

The solubility of the nutrients is determined by the pH of the soil (or coco, peat, whatever the medium may be) around the roots, not in the reservoir or the water jug that you mix ferts up in.

You should buy an inexpensive test kit for water that includes alkalinity. Think pet stores or pond supply. Test that tap water before you use it again.

Total Alkalinity content in the water, not the water pH, is what has the biggest affect on medium pH.

Alkaline is not the same as Alkalinity

fyi:

pH Management and Plant Nutrition, Bill Argo

Part 2 Water Quality
Alkalinity is a measure of how much acid it takes to lower the pH below a certain level, also called acid-buffering capacity. Alkalinity is usually measured with a test kit where dilute acid is added until a color change occurs at a specific pH. Alkalinity is not a specific ion, but rather includes the concentration of several ions that affect acid-buffering capacity. Under most conditions, the ions that have the greatest effect on alkalinity are bicarbonates like calcium, magnesium, or sodium bicarbonate and, to a lesser extent, carbonates like calcium or sodium. Several other ions including hydroxides, phosphates, ammonium, silicates, sulfides, borates, and arsenate also can contribute to alkalinity, but their concentration is usually so low that they can be ignored.

[..]

Alkalinity (calcium bicarbonate, magnesium bicarbonate, and sodium bicarbonate) and limestone (calcium and magnesium carbonate) react very similarly when added to a substrate. And just like too much limestone, the use of irrigation water containing high levels of alkalinity can cause the pH of the substrate to increase above acceptable levels for healthy plant growth. cont.​


Thanks for the advice, Carl! I really appreciate that. Testing the run-off PH is a good way to figure out the PH of the soil as well right?

And just to restate, we share the grow, my friend is just taking care of it this time with different soil\nutes. I still tend to it and see it every day. I took care of it all the times previous with the above mentioned conditions.

I'll try and do some testing and figure out what the reads are for the MG potting soil and nutes he's using.
 

seeyouaunty

Active member
What's on the underside of the damaged leaves? Almost looks like insect damage, i've seen spidermites cause similar symptoms before. If so i'd say the Dumpster strain is simply more resistant to the bugs than the other cuts.
 

Catharsis

Member
I'm pretty new to growing cannabis, but so far I dig MG Moisture Control. Of course, if you want to go organic it's not an option, but I see nothing wrong with it.
 

BIG JT

Member
My best guess is that you're locking out the Calcium by adding the MG to the already rich FFOF. Try just plain water til you see a defic, then add your 3 part at half strength
 
Top