PURE BUTANE noob questions

[RulaTone]

Hi all
Been busy these times with extractions...
One of the method i really enjoyed is BHO.
I used Colibri gas as it's the easiest to find zero-impurities brand here in europe.
Amazing results...but still a lot of questions in my head...
Searching trough the net i've found that Colibri gas is a mixture, and has a Benchmark for nonvolatile compounds of 50ppm
Y'all know that these compounds are dangerous for health.
I was trying to find some purer Gases and i found that the purest is "Research-grade purity" at 99.910% N-Butane gas. This is Not a mixture of different gases, just butane in its normal form.

These are the specs:
(BP means Boiling point at sea level)
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,serif]1,3-Butadiene < 1 ppm BP: -4.4°c / 24F
1-Butene < 1 ppm BP: -6,3°c / 21F
2-Butene (cis) < 5 ppm BP: 4°c
2-Butene (trans) < 5 ppm BP: 1°c
2,2-Dimethylpropane < 2 ppm BP: 9.5°c
Ethane < 1 ppm BP: -89°c /
Ethylene < 1 ppm BP: -103.7°C / -154.7F
Isobutane < 500 ppm BP: -11.7°C / 11F
Isobutylene < 100 ppm BP: -6.9°c / 20F
Isopentane < 2 ppm BP:[/FONT] 27.7°c
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,serif] Methane < 1 ppm BP: -161.6°c / -259F
Nitrogen < 5 ppm BP: -195.8°c / -320F
Oxygen < 5 ppm BP: -182.9°c / 297F
Pentane < 2 ppm BP: 36.1°c
Propane < 300 ppm BP: -42°c / -44F
Propylene < 2 ppm BP: -47°c / -54F
Water < 1 ppm[/FONT] BP: 100°c
The remaing part should be n-butane with a BP of -0.5°c

Since i can't find a clear definition of what is a Non-volatile compund, i've underlined in red the substances with higher BP, so they are more difficult to get rid during the purge.

Which is the real minimum evaporation temp. of the Butane+resin mix?
On my hand it is at leats 40°c.

I've found that if i spray on a surface some butane gas it will evap in seconds at room temp, BUT if i extract some resin, the liquid resulting won't evap so easily as only butane do.

My questions are:
Is this Research grade butane suitable for extractions?
Is it anyhow safer than normal colibri gas?
is it worth try to find this purer gas?
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,serif][/FONT]

 

[Gray Wolf]

My questions are:
Is this Research grade butane suitable for extractions?
Is it anyhow safer than normal colibri gas?
is it worth try to find this purer gas?

The non flammables are oleaginous waxes, aka paraffin. The hoopla on purity has more to do with not plugging the small orifices in expensive lighters, than health concerns.

Mostly it is a ploy to separate you from your money because both the butane rated below 50 ppm and their direct competitors measure less than 15 ppm contamination, despite the 50 ppm red herring.

There is no LD50 for paraffin that I am aware of and as ya'll know, it is so innocuous that it is used to seal jelly jars.

We use Lucienne 4X, which we purchase at less than $25 a case of (12) 300 ml cans and is the cheapest quality butane available to us at this point.

 

[RulaTone]

So you are basically saying that the only non-volatile compound in commercial butanes is parafin wich isn't dangerous?

Eating paraffin in a jelly is a thing, but vaping it?
Heating paraffin, as i read on google, can deliver PAH in the smoke you are inhaling.
As i read on wiki they are cancerous substances.

I'm not trying to argue you cause i know your technical genius...
Just trying to understand more.

 

[SacredTHCRitual]

I still wouldn't eat paraffin

I guess it could be used to separate the fats/waxes from a raw hash.

it is more commonly used to separate the fats/waxes from raw opium.

 

[Gray Wolf]

So you are basically saying that the only non-volatile compound in commercial butanes is parafin wich isn't dangerous?

Eating paraffin in a jelly is a thing, but vaping it?
Heating paraffin, as i read on google, can deliver PAH in the smoke you are inhaling.
As i read on wiki they are cancerous substances.

I'm not trying to argue you cause i know your technical genius...
Just trying to understand more.

No geniuses here and I most certainly don't have all the answers, so I try to stick with proven sources, because of all the vocal people that are damn sure of things that ain't so.

In industry the state OSHA laws are based on the MSDS for the material in question, to establish the protection required.

Here is the MSDS which says that there are no potential health hazards associated with breathing paraffin vapor below the TLV for an 8 hour exposure of 2mg/M3 TWA:

That is 16 mg over that 8 hours, which from a 15ppm source, suggest to me that you are medicating too often.

It is more a matter of perspective. Everything is pernicious at some level. Oxygen will kill us at greater than 75% concentration and pristine babbling brook water at less that that.

If you are smoking herb, you are most certainly vaporizing more plant waxes than that, so I see it as a salubrious improvement.




Paraffin

1. Product Identification

Synonyms: None
​

CAS No.: 8002-74-2
Molecular Weight: Not applicable.
Chemical Formula: Not applicable.
Product Codes: 4227
​

2. Composition/Information on Ingredients



Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous --------------------------------------- ------------ ------------ --------- Paraffin Wax Fume 8002-74-2 90 - 100% Yes 3. Hazards Identification

Emergency Overview
​

--------------------------
As part of good industrial and personal hygiene and safety procedure, avoid all unnecessary exposure to the chemical substance and ensure prompt removal from skin, eyes and clothing.

SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Rating: 2 - Moderate
Flammability Rating: 1 - Slight
Reactivity Rating: 0 - None
Contact Rating: 1 - Slight
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: Green (General Storage)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
None identified.
Ingestion:
Irritation of mucous membranes.
Skin Contact:
Irritation.
Eye Contact:
Irritation.
Chronic Exposure:
No information found.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
No information found.
​

4. First Aid Measures

Inhalation:
​

If a person breathes in large amounts, move the exposed person to fresh air.
Ingestion:
If large amounts were swallowed, give water to drink and get medical advice.
Skin Contact:
In case of contact, immediately wash skin with plenty of soap and water for at least 15 minutes.
Eye Contact:
In case of eye contact, immediately flush with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes.
​

5. Fire Fighting Measures

Fire:
​

Flash point: 204C (399F) CC
Explosion:
No information found.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Use extinguishing media appropriate for surrounding fire.
Special Information:
Firefighters should wear proper protective equipment and self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in positive pressure mode.
​

6. Accidental Release Measures

Wear suitable protective clothing. Carefully sweep up and remove.
​

​

7. Handling and Storage

Keep container tightly closed. Suitable for any general chemical storage area. Containers of this material may be hazardous when empty since they retain product residues (dust, solids); observe all warnings and precautions listed for the product.
​

8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection

Airborne Exposure Limits:
​

-ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV):
2 mg/m3 (TWA)
Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
For conditions of use where exposure to the substance is apparent and engineering controls are not feasble, consult an industrial hygienist. For emergencies, or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-facepiece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
Skin Protection:
None required.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles and/or full face shield where dusting or splashing of solutions is possible. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.
​

9. Physical and Chemical Properties

Appearance:
​

Wax-like prills.
Odor:
Odorless.
Solubility:
Negligible (< 0.1%)
Specific Gravity:
0.90
pH:
No information found.
% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
0
Boiling Point:
No information found.
Melting Point:
56C (133F)
Vapor Density (Air=1):
Not applicable.
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
Not applicable.
Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
No information found.
​

10. Stability and Reactivity

Stability:
​

Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Incompatibilities:
Strong oxidizing agents.
Conditions to Avoid:
Heat, flame, other sources of ignition.
​

11. Toxicological Information

--------\Cancer Lists\------------------------------------------------------ ---NTP Carcinogen--- Ingredient Known Anticipated IARC Category ------------------------------------ ----- ----------- ------------- Paraffin Wax Fume (8002-74-2) No No None12. Ecological Information

Environmental Fate:
​

No information found.
Environmental Toxicity:
No information found.
​

13. Disposal Considerations

Whatever cannot be saved for recovery or recycling should be managed in an appropriate and approved waste disposal facility. Processing, use or contamination of this product may change the waste management options. State and local disposal regulations may differ from federal disposal regulations. Dispose of container and unused contents in accordance with federal, state and local requirements.
​

14. Transport Information

Not regulated.
​

15. Regulatory Information

--------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 1\--------------------------------- Ingredient TSCA EC Japan Australia ----------------------------------------------- ---- --- ----- --------- Paraffin Wax Fume (8002-74-2) Yes Yes Yes No --------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 2\--------------------------------- --Canada-- Ingredient Korea DSL NDSL Phil. ----------------------------------------------- ----- --- ---- ----- Paraffin Wax Fume (8002-74-2) Yes Yes No Yes --------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 1\---------------- -SARA 302- ------SARA 313------ Ingredient RQ TPQ List Chemical Catg. ----------------------------------------- --- ----- ---- -------------- Paraffin Wax Fume (8002-74-2) No No No No --------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 2\---------------- -RCRA- -TSCA- Ingredient CERCLA 261.33 8(d) ----------------------------------------- ------ ------ ------ Paraffin Wax Fume (8002-74-2) No No No Chemical Weapons Convention: No TSCA 12(b): No CDTA: NoSARA 311/312: Acute: Yes Chronic: Yes Fire: No Pressure: NoReactivity: No (Pure / Solid)

Australian Hazchem Code: None allocated.
Poison Schedule: None allocated.
WHMIS:
This MSDS has been prepared according to the hazard criteria of the Controlled Products Regulations (CPR) and the MSDS contains all of the information required by the CPR.
​

16. Other Information

NFPA Ratings: Health: 0 Flammability: 1 Reactivity: 0
​

Label Hazard Warning:
As part of good industrial and personal hygiene and safety procedure, avoid all unnecessary exposure to the chemical substance and ensure prompt removal from skin, eyes and clothing.
Label Precautions:
During use avoid contact with eyes, skin, clothing. Wash thoroughly after handling. When not in use keep in tightly closed container.
Label First Aid:
Not applicable.
Product Use:
Laboratory Reagent.
Revision Information:
No Changes.
Disclaimer:
************************************************************************************************
Mallinckrodt Baker, Inc. provides the information contained herein in good faith but makes no representation as to its comprehensiveness or accuracy. This document is intended only as a guide to the appropriate precautionary handling of the material by a properly trained person using this product. Individuals receiving the information must exercise their independent judgment in determining its appropriateness for a particular purpose. MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE WITH RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION SET FORTH HEREIN OR THE PRODUCT TO WHICH THE INFORMATION REFERS. ACCORDINGLY, MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OF OR RELIANCE UPON THIS INFORMATION.
​

 

[eloquentsoution]

so i guess there is no need to post what i just wrote. yours is much better anyway, gw!

 

[jump117]

if you don't want paraffin in the butane extract, use ethanol winterization to remove it.
Make paraffin-free absolute.

 

[Gray Wolf]

if you don't want paraffin in the butane extract, use ethanol winterization to remove it.
Make paraffin-free absolute.

Good point! Plant waxes too!

 

[RulaTone]

if you don't want paraffin in the butane extract, use ethanol winterization to remove it.
Make paraffin-free absolute.

OK so since now what i've learned is this, correct me if i'm wrong:

Searching for a pure source of butane is a waste of time and money cause even if you have a pure gas, it will extract non.polar plant waxes that are responsible of health risks.
Those risks are anyway bland cause waxes are in plant too so smoking them in the bud or in the oil is actually the same.
At a concentration that we can consider low-harm.

To me this is something that oil-head should note when they say:
"I'll never smoke plant matter again"
But you are smoking waxes of this plant matter so what's the difference!?

Winterization is something i've learned about in the past.
I'm waiting to receive two books (cannabis alchemy and marijuana chemistry) and i hope i will find in them more details.
I know that in industry it's a process used to refine vegetal oils (such palm oil and similar) to separate oil from waxes and to make it suitable for alimentation.

I also have direct access to 96° technical grade ethanol.
I've used in the past this alcohol to extract, from buds, leafs or kif.
But i always reached lower quality extract than i had with Butane. I'm talking about that particular licorice flavor that was a background in every extract. Bho is always tastier.
And another thing that annoy me is that ethanol has a very high boiling point, meaning i have to reach high temperatures to get rid of it but loosing terpenes and damaging thc.
I've noted that during the purge the less quantity of calor is involved the more the flavors will be respected.
I usually purge butane oils at 40-50°c reaching fantastic amber.
For ethanol i had to go up to 70-80°c darkening the oil, wich is tough glassy and very effective but more hashey and stoney.
Purging ethanol at low temperatures kinda scary me cause i feel there is something left in the oil.
Anyway i've never winterized my bho so i don't really know how it can be! Judging from Jump's photos it's pretty good and the color make me think that it had a low temp 2° purge for ethanol.

I was wondering if we can substitute ethanol alcohol with Dietilic ether alcohol wich have a BP of 35°c against 78°c of ethanol.
But my query then is at wich temp underzero i have to go to winterize with ether.
I also can find 99.8% analytical grade ether but in the lab here even tecnicians are scaried from it's instability, so i never tried it.
Anyway i think that with a good preparation and enviroment shouldn't be dangerous.
But i will wait your precious answers.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ummmmm, butane's slight polarity extracts undesirables, but the health risk thing may be over stated. Butane extractions are actually pretty clean, though they can be further improved by the absolute techniques pointed out by J117.

Smoking extracts and concentrations does not necessarily involve smoking plant waxes and other undesirables, because they can be removed by subsequent processing. Butane extractions are actually one of the cleanest, with less undesirables that extracting with polar alcohols.

I have gotten good success with 96% ethanol using frozen cured material and a 3 minute quick wash. Alcohol quick washes actually produce a more aromatic oil than butane, because they extract more of the turpeniods and flavoids.

Butane produces a hashy tasting oil from cured material on balance, vis a vis a floral oil from alcohol.

Fresh green frozen material butane extract is perhaps the most flavorful of any of the oils that I have extracted, and surprisingly fresh frozen material extract using alcohol, produces a rather drab tasting oil in comparison to cured material.

As you note, alcohol does have a higher boiling point than butane, but can still produce a tasty efficacious extract. In point of fact, well done alcohol extractions get more high votes for flavor by the test panels that I have used than butane, except for fresh frozen green extract using butane.

My guess would be that picking a refrigeration temperature for winterization has less to do with the solvent and more to do with what the material being removed does at any given temperature.

I use 0F, or -32C and it works using ethanol. All I know for sure, but perhaps Jump has further insight?

 

[RulaTone]

Ummmmm, butane's slight polarity extracts undesirables, but the health risk thing may be over stated. Butane extractions are actually pretty clean, though they can be further improved by the absolute techniques pointed out by J117.

Smoking extracts and concentrations does not necessarily involve smoking plant waxes and other undesirables, because they can be removed by subsequent processing. Butane extractions are actually one of the cleanest, with less undesirables that extracting with polar alcohols.

I have gotten good success with 96% ethanol using frozen cured material and a 3 minute quick wash. Alcohol quick washes actually produce a more aromatic oil than butane, because they extract more of the turpeniods and flavoids.

Butane produces a hashy tasting oil from cured material on balance, vis a vis a floral oil from alcohol.

Fresh green frozen material butane extract is perhaps the most flavorful of any of the oils that I have extracted, and surprisingly fresh frozen material extract using alcohol, produces a rather drab tasting oil in comparison to cured material.

As you note, alcohol does have a higher boiling point than butane, but can still produce a tasty efficacious extract. In point of fact, well done alcohol extractions get more high votes for flavor by the test panels that I have used than butane, except for fresh frozen green extract using butane.

My guess would be that picking a refrigeration temperature for winterization has less to do with the solvent and more to do with what the material being removed does at any given temperature.

I use 0F, or -32C and it works using ethanol. All I know for sure, but perhaps Jump has further insight?

Thanks GW for stopping by. Still sounds amazing to me talking this subject with someone in another continent.
Thanks Icmag for this.

I find very interesting what you said about refrigeration temps.
So actually the very important factor is temp. and not the solvent involved. That's pretty good.
I'm glad you did panel tests so who is talking is not you but a wide variety of people.
Although my testers (not patients just high tolerance buddies) would disagree with you cause they finded bho always tastier than alcohols.
But i did extract only from bone dry material, i had some cured buds wich were destinated to experimentation. I tried ISO alcohol, Ethanol alcohol, Hexane, Ciclohexane, and Butane.
With alcohols we always encountered that particular taste...not too similar to the original bud taste wich instead was mostly preserved in the butane extracted oil.
I want underline again i am talking about bone dry cured buds.
I had very few extraction with fresh material.
On my experience one factor that determine final taste is the purge temps.
You are right when you say that alcohols can extract more terpenoids, but then, during the purge, (80°C) you will lose them a lot due to high temps making them evap.
This is the real force of Butane in my view, wich even if extract less, won't need high.temps purge so lots of terpenoids are left in the oil and not flying around you!
Infact i was thinking at propane as my next solvent, cause it has a even lower BP than Butane, meaning it should evap at very low temps...maybe just room temps are enough...who knows!!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks GW for stopping by. Still sounds amazing to me talking this subject with someone in another continent.
Thanks Icmag for this.

I find very interesting what you said about refrigeration temps.
So actually the very important factor is temp. and not the solvent involved. That's pretty good.
I'm glad you did panel tests so who is talking is not you but a wide variety of people.
Although my testers (not patients just high tolerance buddies) would disagree with you cause they finded bho always tastier than alcohols.
But i did extract only from bone dry material, i had some cured buds wich were destinated to experimentation. I tried ISO alcohol, Ethanol alcohol, Hexane, Ciclohexane, and Butane.
With alcohols we always encountered that particular taste...not too similar to the original bud taste wich instead was mostly preserved in the butane extracted oil.
I want underline again i am talking about bone dry cured buds.
I had very few extraction with fresh material.
On my experience one factor that determine final taste is the purge temps.
You are right when you say that alcohols can extract more terpenoids, but then, during the purge, (80°C) you will lose them a lot due to high temps making them evap.
This is the real force of Butane in my view, wich even if extract less, won't need high.temps purge so lots of terpenoids are left in the oil and not flying around you!
Infact i was thinking at propane as my next solvent, cause it has a even lower BP than Butane, meaning it should evap at very low temps...maybe just room temps are enough...who knows!!

Yup, I meticulously pay attention to process temperature, though my observation was directed at what happens to waxes that are less soluble than the cannabis oleoresins as you drop the solution temperature. The solution will cloud as they clump together, which makes them easier to filter out.

Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort.......... I'm thinking that it is actually good that everyone doesn't have exactly the same tastes, because us man-childs would have killed each other off over the same woman a long time ago.

It is also hard to compare flavor results a continent away, without a common sample and common ingestion techniques.

As you note the turpenoids are aromatics, that by definition are evaporating off at ambient, hence the aroma.

If you look at boiling points, however, only ß-caryophyllene, with its boiling point at 119*C / 246.2F, boils close to the melting point of CBD @ 66C/151F or CBN at 77C/171F.

Offsetting that is the issue that if you keep the puddle molten, it will purge faster and more completely. Especially of you also pull a vacuum on it. Lets come back to vacuum in a moment.


ß-caryophyllene properties appear to be anti-inflammatory, cytoprotective and anti-malarial, so that is the trade off.

FOAF did some excellent work using propane as the solvent, though he abandoned it because he was unable to satisfactorily reduce the methyl mercaps levels below 2ppb, which is its sensory threshold, and the flavor was disagreeable.

If you have ready source of propane that hasn't had mercaps added, you might search his threads. Seemingly it worked well, except for that one issue.

Back to the vacuum. You can boil mixtures significantly below their boiling points, if you reduce the atmospheric pressure on them by using a vacuum.

As your goal is to purge at lower temperatures, might I suggest that you experiment with that?

 

[el dub]

quote gray wolf above: If you look at boiling points, however, only ß-caryophyllene, with its boiling point at 119*C / 246.2F, boils below the melting point of CBD @ 66C/151F or CBN at 77C/171F.

I'm really interested in this information, especially concerning the anti-inflammatory properties. However, maybe I'm missing something here....

The boiling point of B-caryophyllene @246.2*F appears to be above the melting point of CBD@ 151F but you state the opposite in the quote above.

Thanks in advance.

lw

 

[Trichgnomes]

I wanted to make a point regarding the use of disposable canisters vs 99.5 or 99.9% N Butane.

There is a proprietary extractor that many of you know about that can recover the butane or other solvent of one's choice indefinitely. I am not affiliated with said extractor, nor have I even seen one in person.

That being said, the company recently posted some youTube videos that depicts how it works. In the first video, the person notes that they do no endorse any particular brand of disposable butane canisters, because in his experience, the solvent is not 100% recovered. This can only mean there is something from that can residing in the product (apparently the majority is paraffin as this thread points out).

He goes on to say that instead they use only 99.5% N butane (but 99.9 is available from the same supplier) for their extractions, and recover 100% of it every time.

This leaves me wondering what others' (Foaf comes to mind) experience has been recovering "tobacco connoisseur" grade butane.
Do you get it all back?

If not--access/ availability pending--N Butane seems like the way to go. And once acquired, price would be a mute point if one were to recover it for reuse.

For the record, I use Vector with a glass column in an open air extraction, outside. I'm satisfied with the results, but feel that there is always room for improvement.

 

[Gray Wolf]

quote gray wolf above: If you look at boiling points, however, only ß-caryophyllene, with its boiling point at 119*C / 246.2F, boils below the melting point of CBD @ 66C/151F or CBN at 77C/171F.

I'm really interested in this information, especially concerning the anti-inflammatory properties. However, maybe I'm missing something here....

The boiling point of B-caryophyllene @246.2*F appears to be above the melting point of CBD@ 151F but you state the opposite in the quote above.

Thanks in advance.
lw

Duh, mind in different gear. Thanks, I corrected that post!

For the point of discussion, that is below the 250F that I decarboxylate at, which is where my mind was vaporlocked.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I wanted to make a point regarding the use of disposable canisters vs 99.5 or 99.9% N Butane.

There is a proprietary extractor that many of you know about that can recover the butane or other solvent of one's choice indefinitely. I am not affiliated with said extractor, nor have I even seen one in person.

That being said, the company recently posted some youTube videos that depicts how it works. In the first video, the person notes that they do no endorse any particular brand of disposable butane canisters, because in his experience, the solvent is not 100% recovered. This can only mean there is something from that can residing in the product (apparently the majority is paraffin as this thread points out).

He goes on to say that instead they use only 99.5% N butane (but 99.9 is available from the same supplier) for their extractions, and recover 100% of it every time.

This leaves me wondering what others' (Foaf comes to mind) experience has been recovering "tobacco connoisseur" grade butane.
Do you get it all back?

If not--access/ availability pending--N Butane seems like the way to go. And once acquired, price would be a mute point if one were to recover it for reuse.

For the record, I use Vector with a glass column in an open air extraction, outside. I'm satisfied with the results, but feel that there is always room for improvement.

It is my understanding that said extractor is slow compared to Foaf's refrigerant recovery system. For that reason I am close to on line with a system similar to Foafs but it would be premature to predict results.

The plant material is packed in the 48" X 1 1/2" column and a hard (~100 microns) vacuum pulled on the whole system to pump off the remaining moisture.

When it achieves vacuum, the moisture has all boiled away, and the column is isolated from the rest of the system using valves, and backfilled with n-butane from a 50# refrigerant recovery tank.

After the appropriate amount of soak, the vacuum pump is turned off from keeping the balance of the system under vacuum, and a valve is opened in the bottom of the column, which allows the butane to flow via a 3/4" stainless tube, into the recovery vessel directly below it.

The oil less refrigerant recovery pump is then turned on, which pumps off the butane in the recovery vessel, as well as the butane soaked into the plant material, as a gas and recompresses it into a liquid in the original refrigerant recovery tank.

When the butane is all recovered and a vacuum is again achieved, the system is shut down and the oil extracted from the recovery vessel.

Both the stainless column and the recovery vessel will be wrapped with heating/cooling coils, through which either hot water or chilled water will be pumped at different stages in the process.

At any rate, that is the plan, but time has been short of late because of summer property management projects.

Fortunately, I do see daylight soon, and it is at the top of my list of projects to finish off.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Yes the recovery rate is reported to be fairly slow, about an hour IIRC. Wouldn't be a problem for me as I mostly only do runs for the head.

Your system sounds fantastic, GW. I will be greatly anticipating the results of the finished project. How will you design the 'catch' chamber? Will a transport solvent be necessary to remove the final product?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yes the recovery rate is reported to be fairly slow, about an hour IIRC. Wouldn't be a problem for me as I mostly only do runs for the head.

Your system sounds fantastic, GW. I will be greatly anticipating the results of the finished project. How will you design the 'catch' chamber? Will a transport solvent be necessary to remove the final product?

Three plans to try.

I plan to start with a large removable 5 liter Pyrex beaker in the recovery vessel.

Foaf lined his recovery vessel with a Teflon bag, which he then freezes and breaks up the oil to remove.

I may wash it out with warm ethanol and make an absolute. I am also working on a vacuum purge chamber for alcohol, or if it is to also be decarboxylated anyway, I will just distill off the alcohol in a hot oil bath.

 

[Rickys bong]

I'll take a stab at answering your questions...

"Is this Research grade butane suitable for extractions?"

Commercially available N-butane is available in two purities, CP grade (commercial purity) and instrument grade although some vendors may call it research grade.

Is it suitable? Duh, yes.
CP grade is a crapload better than lighter refill gas since you know what's in it for one, and lighter refill gas is sold as FUEL. Even the best brands are going to have a more impurities than CP grade butane.
Instrument grade usually comes with a GC/MS printout for each bottle, and is also roughly 3 times the price where I get mine.

Lighter gas is a mixture of N-butane and iso-butane (and sometimes propane) primarily to give it a higher vapor pressure. This means you lighter will work when it's cold.
I doubt there is any difference between N-butane and isobutane for extraction from a solvent effectiveness aspect. But... N-butane is better since it only needs to be cooled to 0.5 deg. C or slightly pressurized to keep it liquid.

In a closed system it keeps pressures down, and with an open ended tube you waste a lot of gas cooling the plant matter down.

"Is it anyhow safer than normal colibri gas?"

Uh...Yes. "Normal Colibri gas" is really a just crappy substitute for N-butane.
The 4x or 5x refined schtick is just marketing. It does Not get run through the distillation process 5 times. Filtered through 4 or 5 filters maybe.

"is it worth try to find this purer gas? "
Shit yeah. The CP grade is more than enough considering there is virtually zero published analysis of what goes into lighter gas.

On another subject, the Tamisium extractor, I doubt his claims are accurate.

I don't want to bash the product, it's really a very nice unit.
But the claims are not accurate.

Recovery times will be more like 3-12 hours depending on how cold you can get the recovery vessel and how much you want to recover.
I've built a system based on this principle so I have some first hand knowledge. I scrapped it in favor of a pumped system.

It's similar to cryogenic pumping principles. The cooled tank simply establishes a pressure differential between the two tanks so the gas flows to the cooler tank and condenses on the walls of the tank and the liquid surface.
Speed of the system is related to the temperature differential, the size of the connecting line and the amount of surface area in the cooled tank.

But, there's a few problems. without a vacuum pump to initially evacuate the air from the system the pressure can't get low enough to be completely effective. The plant matter also absorbs a lot of gas, and it takes a lot of heat and time to get it out.
Even with the recovery tank in a freezer at -10 C the system will reach an equilibrium with some volume of gas in the "hot" tank.

If you were to use lighter refill gas the recovery would be poor because the isobutane won't condense at all.
It would seem some carrier solvent, probably ethanol is needed in the tank where the plant matter is. Otherwise you'd have to scrape the extract out of the first tank after the butane has boiled off.
If you've done any extractions with butane and weed you know how fucking long it takes to get the butane purged.
Once the mixture of oil, butane and ethanol starts to a certain point, the butane is going to boil off slower and slower. Especially when the butane content gets below 10% or so. Even if the warm tank was in near boiling water.

Realistically, with pot and pure n-butane and a lot of time you might get better than 80% recovery but any better than that is going to require a more complex system.

If there were only pure N-butane in this system and nothing else you might get better than 95% recovery after several hours but that's not what we want to do.
When you throw in all the other variables it gets slower and more complex.

But! Having said that, it's still a closed system and you will recover a good percentage of the butane. (and not blow your windows out)

Anyway, my twelve cents of opinion. Please discuss.....

 

[RulaTone]

Many thanks for stopping by.
Anyway recovery of butane wasnt the primary subject of the thread
and sincerely speaking i don't care too much about it...

I hope we will discuss it in another thread since it's an interesting subject.


Back to the vacuum/winterization:
I've found this useful chart, many of you may already know, pointing out boiling points of Pure ethanol at certain pressures.



Anyway i want to clarify that these are bp of ethanol only.
Ethanol+resin mix will surely boil at higher temps...

The problem is where to find a freezer that goes down to -35°c...
The most powerful i've got reaches -18°c...
On the net i've found that only lab. freezer can go that low...and they cost too much...
Ideas?

I've also found 2 sources of (i hope) Pure Propane.
Here in my country it's sold for campers and caravans, intended to travel in nordic countries...cheap and easy to find.
The other is a handy can, used to refill soft-air guns, even more cheap and easy to find.
I've just sent emails to know the exact content of these two propanes, cause i know that it's very easy that they are not so "pure" as stated on labels.

For pure N-Butane prices are not that low but if i can i will give it a try.
I'm aware that even if it's pure it will extract plant waxes.
So the search for it has no more that enthusiastic feeling i had before GW explanations.