ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS

[ImaginaryFriend]

IF, did you ever get a handle on that “nanner” issue?

I guess so. I really don't know if it was real or NGW paranoia. I am pretty confident in my ability to identify gender. I really thought there were male preflowers. I cleaned everything with the thoroughness, and have yet to find any seeds. Based on the c.silver threads, it is possible for a plant to revert to it's natural state once a chemical stress is removed, so maybe that is what happened. Or maybe I was nuts.

In the end: No problems.

This will cost you yield. I strongly feel that training the plants with light in veg the same way you intend to flower is very important to final yield. In veg the plant is busy filling the empty air space around it with a presentation of foliage that is being produced to take advantage of the light source. This is when it “squares up” with vertical lighting.

I failed to manage the canopy to grab a significant portion of the light that I threw at these girls. I want them to be taller and have more volume overall... and they don't have any problem being wide... My thinking in horizontal light to encourage vertical growth in veg, and then transition to vertical lighting in flower to take advantage of the double-stacks four foot spread. I would hope that the stretch/transition phase would be sufficient to fill in the gaps I create with an initial horizontal set up.

This genetic, grown in vertical, showed less than 30% vertical stretch... If I'm going to be working around four feet of light, I need to get them over three feet tall before the flip. Now that I understand her laterals a bit better, I hope to do much more early pruning/shaping/thinning to help her keep her energy organized. In this grow, the bottom nodes, despite my training efforts, grew out, around, and over the terminals I tried to 'select' as leads. Rather than fight that and try and create a conical plant, I'm thinking of an inverted octopus. That seems like to be a cooperation with her natural growth pattern.

How many plants do you intend to grow and how much space are you going to have?

It all depends on things it depends on elements that are yet to be solidified... but I'd like to go with a single central column of light again (add a 400w CMH/blueMH between the HPSs for 1600W?), in an 8x8 space. I hope to rotate four plants through on a two-week perpetual cycle.

Keep me busy enough to distract me on how boring my PPK life is...

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, have you seen heath robinson's set up with the x pattern. i think he runs 5 lights though, 4 600's and a 1k in the middle. i always liked that arrangement. when i move i'll probably go to something like that.

you have on hand right now the 2 600's, right? what bulbs are you running in them?

unless you run at least 4 lights in the corners of the 8x8 space you just about have to cluster all your lights in the center.

either vertically stacked like you said or clustered side by side with the cool tubes almost touching each other. difficult either way.

why do you want a 400 instead of a third 600?

you mentioned cmh and mh so possibly you are using straight hps bulbs and want some blue?

if that is the case i think a good option might be another 600 and hortilux bulbs in all 3.

i've read some papers that suggest just the presence of blue light is enough to suppress stretch in some plants.

another problem with the mh bulbs is that they are difficult to find a tube for. and they run slightly hotter than hps of the same wattage.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9,

I have a Hortilux Super and an Agrosun Red.

The Hortilux has a more broad spectrum, but both are pumping out wavelengths primarily in the 560-640 nanometer range. I was thinking a halide supplement would add a bit of character to the spectrum.

I think I said 400, because that is the largest CMH available right now (as far as I can tell) and is supposed to be a cool burning bulb with a very broad spectrum, but I'm sure you've done the reading on CMHs...

I've seen one of those crazy expensive Blue Halides by whomever... the ones that retail for like $250 a bulb... and they put out a pretty light... So I was willing to entertain the possibility of running one of those to fill out my spectrum.

My reasoning is: Specific chemical reactions require specific photons/quantum-of-energy. (This may not be true.) The more diverse my light source, the more complete the metabolic-process/elemental-synthesis with the possibility of more/more-complete chemical reactions. (This may not be true.) The more complete the metabolic process, the more magical the flowers. (This may not be true, but would be extraordinarily disappointing if it wasn't.)

As for Heath's grows, I love them. His posted grow here using 1000W center and the 2x2 six hundreds on flips is pretty awesome, and the photos speak for themselves. I've chased his grows around a bit, and all of his work is pretty sweet!

I could go down that road, or one or two others in the near future. Right now, I need to get the new space ready and built out. I expect I'll just start another run with the same bulbs in the same center stack, without as much crowding. There was a significant difference in the structure of flower development between the flowers closest to the bulbs to the back of the garden space. Much more foxtailing, larger calyxes, and more resin development.

But some of it was also bleached and burnt = minor losses.

So the same lights, more room, and better training without the addition of any more light should be an improvement over this grow, and I'll try to plan to add to it as I resources/time.

I pulled the plug on the lights, so the remainder of the flower material has gone through 62-63 dark cycles, and is still in the pots after 36 hours of dark. This was not deliberate, as much as convenient, but I'm curious if the old extended dark cycle will result in anything I can notice.

Hopefully, I'll have the rest hanging today, and get some shots of the root-ball. Unfortunately, I'm on a tight schedule that is razor-edged-time-sensitive in other parts of my life. As the garden doesn't require my attention right now, it has to take a back seat for a minute as I try to juggle things far more volitile than a PPK grow.

EDIT: I once followed a link to an archived OG thread. I don't have it in my notes, so there's not easy way for me to find it again... but one of the posters was critical of reflectors as the rebounding light was out of phase (implying that it was, at least to a degree, canceling itself out). If this were true, one would expect a much bigger fuss about the use of reflectors; regardless, it will require either research or the input of someone who has already done the work to put this idea to rest. If it is true, vertical stacks--among the obvious multiple light arrangements--would be most likely to reduce/eliminate this possibility. In all reality, however, my garden is not so efficient that I need to be being scared over marginal losses resulting from out of phase lights.

How about not burning buds, and getting the canopy to capture the available light, and manage that canopy to maximize light penetration...

 

[MedScientist]

Dark Periods

Dark Periods

IF - I would encourage you to choose/mark a few buds and take pics for a before/after reference when trying the 36 hour dark period. Also, do not limit yourself to 36 hours..... I actually plan on running some tests when other testing is completed, on an extended Dark Cycle (7+ days). Long story short.... summer vacation, driving home every few days to do maint and wanting a longer break, left the light off for 4 days to not worry about power outages (stormy week). The benefits I noticed were definite and positive. The entire plant greened up, buds tightened up which was especially noticed on the lower popcorn buds, tons of Foxtailing on the main buds (new growth), and tons of NEW white hairs and trichs. I would guestimate about 20+% additional harvest weight in 4 days dark. I do encourage 4 days in my Mentoring.

Plus, having gone through 3 days of Total Darkness in the middle of the perpetual cycle due to power failure recently, I believe the plants in all stages (clone, veg and flower) benefited alot.

Since I am on topic of dark periods, I also wanted to touch upon another recent experience. I had a plant get totally shaded out from the light when the neighboring plant grew over it. Interestingly, it reminded me of an experiment we did in grade school, where we monitored a plant growing in a cabinet under total darkness 24/7. Every undergrowth grew long, lanky and white/light green, to which I had close to 80 branches growing over the container and almost touching the floor. Each underdeveloped branch had several bud sites on them. Once I re-introduced her to the light (slowly), I was able to bring the entire plant back to health and green her up. At harvest, she looked like a hanging popcorn bush. I really cant draw any conclusions from that accidental phototropic experiment because she was inflicted with the NGW, so I didnt get the best bud developement to begin with, but does have my mind thinking of a few fun experiments to try to duplicate the initial growth phase, and try to enhance bud growth. I think a PPK variation may be able to keep up with the feed requirements that would be needed.

I would be interested in any other "off the wall" photoperiod experiences to help guide me to/through future experimentation since this is one area that is not being explored as much as all the other aspects of growing.

BTW - this is my new acct/username since they banned me as dmo*** ......... j/k, I just want to dissassociate my PTC username from my Growing stuff.

Good Luck! +rep (when I can again)

 

[jjfoo]

medsci,

here is a different way to do the lights...

http://www.intelli-cycle.com/information.php

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I very much like the idea of reinterpreting my careening life as a controlled experiment.

It's not that I can't handle my shit... I'm experimenting with leaving mostly harvest flowers in the dark for... oh... we just hit sixty hours... Yeah.

Just like I planned. Right on schedule.

Feel much better about myself right now...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Most appealing flower of the run was the tallest terminal on the Left Hand Girl, allowed to carry on until the end, and left on through the dark. Too many factors to make conclusions, but there seemed to be a much more developed flower (after seventy two hours of darkness) compared to their compatriots harvested before they were abandoned to the night. The plants, even through chop, were showing no signs of deteriorating... or any obvious harm done from their nap.

 

[oldone]

Very interesting. So while no harm done I wonder if there is any benefit?

Nice to know in any case, thanks,
OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I dunno... but some of the flowers fall like rocks when I snip them from the stems. Could just be the time line.

Next run, I'll do some earlier selections for effect in the early fifties, but expect to run the majority of the plant to nine weeks... A total change in structure and it appears an increase in density...

Of course, if I prefer the early fifty effect to the early sixty effect... what the hell's the point of an extra week and a half? Still just sit here saying that only time will tell...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Everything is jarred, and presumably curing.

My computer will not be helping me communicate for a little bit... But should be back before the weekend.

Sooooooo.... yeah. I'm okay until the weekend is over. If I'm not back after that... presume the worst... I was abducted by probing-aliens or overdid it on a fad diet...

See everyone in a few days.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I'm alive.

Computer is still struggling.

Good luck to the machine...

 

[DevilWeed]

Glad your back, good luck with the puter!

I'm becoming a huge fan of delta's work, and yours...and the others working on this stuff. Keep at it!

 

[delta9nxs]

i used to be nice to my computers. you know, talk to em nice, beg them not to screw up, and so on. but they shit on me anyway.

now i clean my weapons in front of it while giving it menacing looks.

the other day i took an old toaster and beat the shit out of it with a hammer, right in front of the computer.

i must have made an impression as i had no computer problems that whole day.

hey, IF, did both your plants show nanners?

i've been reading about plant stress lately and found examples of high temperatures causing problems with hormone signaling, cell division, and chemical processes.

some of these stress reactions produced short term morphological changes and in some plants even long term genetic modifications.

none of the plants were cannabis but certainly high temperatures can cause powerful stress reactions.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9

High heat accelerates the offgassing of NWG bullshit hose too...

Both plants showed what I interpreted as male-preflowers/flowers.

I recall clusters.

But I recall being an Emperor of Atlantis.

So much for recollections.

Just to be a dick: I broke up the rootballs today. Took pictures. Realistically, it may be a few days before I can post them up, as I'm so far behind, I'll probably just check your thread an log off.

But it was interesting.

Very interesting.

Yo, DevilWeed! Thanks for the kind words.

 

[delta9nxs]

for cure, dyslexia found!

for cure, dyslexia found!

progress?

 

[delta9nxs]

earth to IF, come in please!

 

[DevilWeed]

Maybe his computer turned on him...told him it was sick of being touched in all the wrong ways.

Kinda like my wife...

 

[delta9nxs]

dude! seriously! message in a bottle, carrier pigeon, semaphore, morse code, sumptin'.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hey.

I'm alive.

Some problems are less of problems.

Still have the pics I promised last month... I gotta run right now, but I seem to have a working computer system again.

Kind of.

Be back soon.

 

[oldone]

Glad to have you back man...I thought you got really bored.