Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Madrus Rose]

I have found several things that helped. However, the thing I have found most prevailent here are a bunch of young wannabe's who have read a few posts and suddenly think themselves experts at the art of marijuana cultivation.

You also offend the truly experienced growers who spend their valuable time trying to help others.
To all you posers and haters I can only say sit yourself down, have a bowl, mellow out, close your ignorand mouths and try very hard to actually learn something.

Lets get to this thread though, defoliation (done properly) can increase production by 10 to 15%.
If you choose not to believe that , well tharts ok too. Go find what will work for you. Being a hater and nay sayer only shows how ignorant and closed minded you are.
To the real growers on here.
Peace and love to all of you!
Da Beach Bum

Picked up a few pearls of wisdom on the beach of life , did you ?

One tries to point out a simple art of pruning a plant to them , just too simple a concept ...involves a little "work" perhaps . But plants & their yields always derive benefit from some agressive pruning down below & judicious pruning ontop.
Unless ones talking SOG ...
And then look mama , no --> flarf !

Using well the light , ez peezy .... some say potahtoes & others say potatoes,
but the truth is the truth .

 

[JWP]

You have got to be kidding!

If i survey every person on the planet and ask them which one of these plants will yield the most, 99% will say the one on the right.
The other 1% are defoliators. So we ask the defoliators how they will make this vastly inferior defoliated plant on the left yield more? They will say "cut all the leaves off"

You have no idea how hard me and 99% of the world are laughing right now.

Its like compound interest. These plants look to be 6-8 weeks old. If we keep veging another 6-8 weeks to let the defoliated plant catch up imagine how huge the non-defoliated plant will be

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Picked up a few pearls of wisdom on the beach of life , did you ?

One tries to point out a simple art of pruning a plant to them , just too simple a concept ...involves a little "work" perhaps . But plants & their yields always derive benefit from some agressive pruning down below & judicious pruning ontop.
Unless ones talking SOG ...
And then look mama , no --> flarf !

Using well the light , ez peezy .... some say potahtoes & others say potatoes,
but the truth is the truth .

Too bad that this thread is not promoting the simple art of proper pruning technique, but it is good too, since nobody here is arguing against pruning and nobody is arguing against 'extra work'... they're against bullshit claims and misnomers. You don't seem to reaalize that the 'defoliators' have railed against the type of pruning you are discussing... They say all the lower sites you pruned away should be left, but all the fan leaves shading the larf lowers should have been removed instead. It's not a name pronunciation issue at all, and though you seem to be defending the thread, the method you use and the recommendations you made are contrary to what this thread pushes.

The truth is the truth.

Properly pruning a few leaves is not defoliation, and pruning larf sites from underneath is much better for improving production than doing like this thread recommends and stunting your plant by removing all the plants solar panels.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Boerman,

Well, Dave, my logic may be twisted. I don't know. But your logic is incomplete. Try thinking past the fan leaves. Do you think a deficiency stops at the fan leaves? In the areas where the fans were effected by the deficiency, the bud leaves would be deficient as well. Your example can't really prove anything because if my idea is correct, then your poor results would have happened even if the fans had been removed. In fact, it can be argued that the fans could have been a factor in causing the deficiency by hogging nutes that were needed by the bud leaves to do their work of building buds. And, BTW, gawwdddddaaammmnnn! 158 pages and you saw where someone said that removing fans resulted in smaller buds. You mean you never saw where anyone had more buds, harder buds, bigger buds on the lower branches, 25% more yield????? You have a pretty selective memory.

If I had removed the fan leaves before a mobile nutrient deficiency kicked in, things would have been far worse. Fan leaves can and do store nutrients, they do not hog them from the buds. You clearly have some things really backwards here, and I would kindly suggest you do some more reading, and dont just conjecture and speculate without knowing more first. Thats like me saying how I think a rocket engine works, but I have no clue. Speculation doesn't help anyone at all, and in this case its only doing harm. As for my memory, it is not selective. Even an old pioneer of defoliation said the buds are smaller without the fan leaves. Do you get larger buds in the middle and bottom to make up for the loss at the top? Possibly. Its what Ive been able to discern from the pics posted in this thread, but none of the pics shown show large buds at the top, so the extra yield some see must be coming from somewhere. Btw, Yes I have had mobile nutrient deficiencies progress from fan leaves to bud leaves. Its not pretty, and yield is obviously done for at this point. Large fan leaves are our first line of defense against mobile nutrient deficiencies, and I for one would like to keep mine.

Again, not much depth to your thinking. I couldn't possibly be "incorrect on the amount of mobile nutrients stored in the fan leaves" because I didn't give an amount. I didn't say anything about mobile nutrients per se. When I said that big fans may provide little, if any, actual nutritive support for buds, I was talking about the products of photosynthesis. But, since you want to talk mobiles, yes, I have witnessed mobile nutrient deficiency. But I also took the time to learn what was going on. You should give that a try sometime. Your thinking on this is exactly the opposite to what is going on. Your plant is very efficient. The reason it starts cannibalizing the oldest and biggest fan leaves is because they are expendable. Think about the life cycle of a leaf. It starts out just a little nub on a branch. It uses materials produced by other parts of the plant to begin developing. As it gets bigger, it begins to supply some of its own needs and rely less on other parts of the plant. There comes a point where it starts producing more than it needs and begins to support other parts of the plant. There comes a time when its production begins to decline until it eventually is producing less than is needed to keep it alive. Sooner or later the plant sucks all the remaining value out of it and lets it drop off. When a plant starts to suffer a deficiency, it is not going to sacrifice its most productive member to fix it. It is going to sacrifice its oldest, least valuable member. That would be that big old fan leaf that you love so much. They don't have the greatest concentration of nutrients. They are just the most expendable.

You did in fact state this about fan leaves and mobile nutrients:

In addition to providing a little storage for mobile nutes

Are you now saying you did not make that post?

Of course the plant uses resources from the oldest leaves first. They are expendable, and they do have a greater concentration of stored nutrients. Are you telling me that big fat green fan leaf I have has less nutrients in it than a new bud leaf, or new smaller fan leaf at the top? As for those big fan leaves not producing as much photosynthesis over bud leaves...all one has to do is look at the area of the leaves and they will realize that large fan leaves > bud leaves in terms of photosynthate and nutrient storage.

Unfortunately, I am off to work, and I am not always able to convey my thoughts clearly, but if you want to educate yourself read some of Spurrs threads here. He's banned now, but if anyone could have showed you the light it would have been him.

 

[slowandeasy]

Too bad that this thread is not promoting the simple art of proper pruning technique, but it is good too, since nobody here is arguing against pruning and nobody is arguing against 'extra work'... they're against bullshit claims and misnomers. You don't seem to reaalize that the 'defoliators' have railed against the type of pruning you are discussing... They say all the lower sites you pruned away should be left, but all the fan leaves shading the larf lowers should have been removed instead. It's not a name pronunciation issue at all, and though you seem to be defending the thread, the method you use and the recommendations you made are contrary to what this thread pushes.

The truth is the truth.

Properly pruning a few leaves is not defoliation, and pruning larf sites from underneath is much better for improving production than doing like this thread recommends and stunting your plant by removing all the plants solar panels.

I cut off lower growth on all of my plants! I promote proper pruning on bottom areas. The original poster is the person who says not to. Anything that will not produce well, gets cut by me. There is no rule that says you cannot trim undergrowth. There is also no rule that you have to defoliate in VEG.

You are 100 % correct that removing the fan leaves in Veg will stunt your plant. That is why IF you defoliate in Veg, prepare for 4+ weeks of veg. In my case I HAVE to veg for over 4 weeks everytime, so it is not EXTRA time per say.

I tried it on my Sour Bubble plant in veg last run, and it ruined it! Stunted it so bad I got rid of it. Now on the other hand, my Sativa's loved it and were not phased by defoliating in VEG. Those plants will be done next Sat, so I will know how they did shortly after. But they are much more dense than usual, have zero waste, and could be pulled 5-7 days earlier than normal.

I know you prolly do not care, but I made a list of Pro's and Con's awhile back. The lists are about equal. The only way to see how it works is to try it. By trying it, I learned that I will never defoliate my Sour Bubble ever again. But I also learned it helped my sativa's to produce 25% more than usual last run...and I never defoliated in VEG, just flower.

The one thing I would love to stress is that defoliating in VEG for MOST people is a waste of time. For people with height restrictions it works well to manage the plant for lengthy veg times. I know you like the term bonsai, and I agree doing it in veg does make it grow bonsai style.

I am not trying to promote defoliation. Rather I am trying to show it does have benefits for some people. For others it is a complete waste of time! For some strains it will stunt them beyond repair, for other strains it works very well. I know how my plants grow from experience. I do not mind trying something new if it CAN increase my yield. 25% increase is no Joke IMO, and I am glad I tried it last run for that reason. Ruining my Sour Bubble this run sucks ass, but that is the chance you take trying something new on a strain. My first experiment was in my Sativa tent.I never tried it on an Indica. You have to have the right attitude when experimenting. Obviously it is strain dependent, and my only Indica hated it. I will never do it again on an Indica. I will however keep experimenting on more sativas to see how they do, since 3 of my Sativa strains produced 25% more.

For most people it is not worth the effort, for some it is totally worth the effort. Just like any other method, what works well for some...might not be the best for others. But it does help some people and that is all that matters. Anyone who tries this method should know the risks and have the right attitude when attempting to try something new.

 

[huntingbb]

<head>
<rant>
god Grat3fulh3ad, I've got to admit your really something special. I thought i might respect you on some level, but quite frankly you should log off and go grow some weed. I couldn't even find a pic of your harvest(s?) - maybe you have never even had a good one?

Either way shove the eff off, just like you push ppl outta your thread. Your an ass, and quite simply deserve to be banned for a month just to get you to cool down and realize - your an idiot. you didn't invent anything, you probably never gave out any good advice, the coco grows 'you' do are probably not even your own.

Go kick rocks buddy, kick em and leave.i support having an opinion, but your just SAD.
</rant>
</head>


my apologies to the rest of the thread... please disagree, but don't be a trolltard.

 

[JWP]

And the world keeps laughing...

You are 100 % correct that removing the fan leaves in Veg will stunt your plant. That is why IF you defoliate in Veg, prepare for 4+ weeks of veg. In my case I HAVE to veg for over 4 weeks everytime, so it is not EXTRA time per say. .

So i will have to start a "defoliated" plant at least 4+ weeks earlier just for it to keep up if i defoliate in veg as k33ftr33z and many other defoliators advise?

No wonder no defoliators arent doing side by sides and run for cover by slinging abuse and labeling people trolls and nay sayers when they even suggest it. How lame...

I tried it on my Sour Bubble plant in veg last run, and it ruined it! Stunted it so bad I got rid of it..

OMG you so badly abused BOGs Sour Bubble with defoliation that you "got rid of it".
You have no idea of the value of the genes you trashed and surely did not and do not deserve them.

25%

I will bet my house that we will NEVER see a side by side with a proven 25% increase. EVER!

The one thing I would love to stress is that defoliating in VEG for MOST people is a waste of time. For people with height restrictions it works well to manage the plant for lengthy veg times. I know you like the term bonsai, and I agree doing it in veg does make it grow bonsai style

This bonsai technique is a waste of time for ALL people ALL of the time unless bonsai is the goal. You are so close to admiting it, what is it that stops you? Pride?

I am not trying to promote defoliation. Rather I am trying to show it does have benefits for some people. For others it is a complete waste of time!

Do you agree that it is dangerous for this thread to be a sticky when the info within could destroy many gardens and the reputation of ICMAG?
I and many others have destroyed plants with this technique even you have..

 

[JWP]

huntingbb, i support you right to an opinion but everything you just said has nothing to do with defoliation...

 

[Snagglepuss]

The only way i see it beneficial,is removing fans that block budsites in mid/late flower.If anyone is doing this in veg .I just don't get it

 

[bu11dog]

Thanks for posting your technique, it's always interesting to see what other people are working on and experimenting with.

Peace

 

[huntingbb]

huntingbb, i support you right to an opinion but everything you just said has nothing to do with defoliation...

its my one pure rant.

on topic - Ive been supercropping, after topping, will be defoliating my girls in the next couple days... scheduled to flower on 15th hopefully.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

<head>
<rant>
Blah Blah Blah, ignorance ignorance, blah.
</rant>
</head>


my apologies to the rest of the thread... please disagree, but don't be a trolltard.

I was posting grow pics overgrow while your mother was still wiping snot from your nose.
I'm in the Big Book of Buds III.
you're full of shit.
i've proved myself.
grow up and quit being a trolltard.

 

[chits]

To the original poster (k33ftr33z), Thank you.
Had been doing a limited version of what you described for years with complimenting results. But for different reasons maybe.
Presently I'm growing 5 in a area that is better suited for 3, maybe 4. Since I had one too many, I stripped the tar off her. Being a sacrificial lamb of sorts I had no problem disposing of her if need be. That was a little over a week ago.
Yesterday I went through the whole nine yards.
Being new here I'm sure nobody cares about what a newbie post so I've no reason to post anymore pics on this (my last went un noticed / un-commented on anyways).
Again, thanks to you and many others for bringing this to my attention.
Much appreciated.

 

[slowandeasy]

And the world keeps laughing...



So i will have to start a "defoliated" plant at least 4+ weeks earlier just for it to keep up if i defoliate in veg as k33ftr33z and many other defoliators advise?

No wonder no defoliators arent doing side by sides and run for cover by slinging abuse and labeling people trolls and nay sayers when they even suggest it. How lame...




OMG you so badly abused BOGs Sour Bubble with defoliation that you "got rid of it".
You have no idea of the value of the genes you trashed and surely did not and do not deserve them.



I will bet my house that we will NEVER see a side by side with a proven 25% increase. EVER!




This bonsai technique is a waste of time for ALL people ALL of the time unless bonsai is the goal. You are so close to admiting it, what is it that stops you? Pride?



Do you agree that it is dangerous for this thread to be a sticky when the info within could destroy many gardens and the reputation of ICMAG?
I and many others have destroyed plants with this technique even you have..

I HAVE to veg for more than 4 weeks EVERYTIME, that is my rotation. I am not adding weeks. As I have stated numerous times, if you are adding weeks onto your grow...it is not worth it. That is in VEG. Defoliating just in Flower will not add time onto your grow. No rule you have to Defoliate in Veg ever. The plant structure is completely different. You can LST and and top in Veg an your plant will get taller, faster. But defoliating in VEG stunts the vertical growth and creates tighter nodes...thus why I say it is good for people with a lack of height.

Dude I can experiment with any genes I want to. It was one clone, chill out. I paid good money for the seeds and can do what I like with them. It is not like I ruined a mother plant, it was 1 single clone. I have plenty more where that came from. I know how it grows normally, because I have ran it a ton. The buds are fucking dense as hell, with fan leaves bigger than your chest. I had it in a very small tent, and yes I got rid of it...because my other plants could benefit from it being tossed. No use keeping it around. I love my Sour Bubble, that is why I said I would never do it again and why I only tried it on 1 Clone. I wanted to see how it would react, that is how you learn what will maximize your space and how a plant responds to different methods. You have no right telling me I do not deserve to grow Sour Bubble, you know nothing about me.

Again, it is only a form of a "Bonsai" technique if you defoliate in VEG. If you only defoliate in Flower, your plants will be the same height as normal. If you take the time to read my list of Pro's and Con's...it would answer most of your questions.


So are you claiming that I am lying about my 25% increased yield? I hope not, because I have no reason to make shit up. I did not defoliate that batch in VEG ever, only in Flower...so they were normal height. Defoliating in VEG changes the plant structure, making a side by side difficult. They will grow much different, especially height. Again, why I stress defoliating in VEG benefits people with a lack of height. To do a true side by side, it would have to be done exactly the same. Putting a plant defoliated in VEG right next to one that has not been will not work. The light would be much further away from the Defoliated plant. Could be done in 2 identical tents, with everything the same...including lamp distance from plant. Just because a plant is taller, does not mean it will yield more. That is the point of LST or Scrogging as well.

Pride? No, go back and read my posts holmes. Count how many times I say it is a waste of time to defoliate in VEG for most people. That is my number 1 statement. I even posted pictures to show the difference. If you add VEG time it is not worth it to do it IMO. If you HAVE to VEG for 4 or more weeks, then it might be right for your grow. I also state over and over that it is not right for everyone, the only way to know is to evaluate your personal grow space. That is up to you. I have to veg for 6 weeks usually and my plants grow very fast. I have to keep them from getting too tall. Topping alone results in too bushy of a plant for my space if I veg that long and is too hard to maintain proper height for ME.



Do I agree that it is dangerous for this to be a sticky? Not at all. I did not title the thread, and it is up to the reader to determine who to believe. There are so many warnings that you should know your strains and be experienced before you try this method out. Failure to ignore the warnings is the readers fault.That goes for any thread. A person should read the whole thread before jumping into trying anything. It has helped myself and others to increase our yields. I think think if the thread was named something different...there would be less arguing.

If u get a chance read my list of Pros and Cons and you will see I am not promoting defoliating. Just sharing my experience. You will see I say it is not right for MOST people. For others it does help, those are the facts. It is what it is.

 

[TruthOrLie]

You will see I say it is not right for MOST people. For others it does help, those are the facts. It is what it is.

So you admit that for MOST people this technique is not right for.

You also admit for a select few, this technique could be helpful.

So for the most part this technique has extremely limited applications and benefits.

It is what it is. Truth or lie?

 

[redspaghetti]

And the world keeps laughing...



So i will have to start a "defoliated" plant at least 4+ weeks earlier just for it to keep up if i defoliate in veg as k33ftr33z and many other defoliators advise?

No wonder no defoliators arent doing side by sides and run for cover by slinging abuse and labeling people trolls and nay sayers when they even suggest it. How lame...




OMG you so badly abused BOGs Sour Bubble with defoliation that you "got rid of it".
You have no idea of the value of the genes you trashed and surely did not and do not deserve them.



I will bet my house that we will NEVER see a side by side with a proven 25% increase. EVER!




This bonsai technique is a waste of time for ALL people ALL of the time unless bonsai is the goal. You are so close to admiting it, what is it that stops you? Pride?



Do you agree that it is dangerous for this thread to be a sticky when the info within could destroy many gardens and the reputation of ICMAG?
I and many others have destroyed plants with this technique even you have..

Sorry you feel this way JWP,,,

you keep saying this technique doesnt work and waste of time

you're picking on a lot of people that just started this technique and still have not gotten it down 100 % yet ....

EVERYTHING TAKE TIMES ...


have you tried this before ? does it work for you ?

bonsai technique ?? want me to show you what bonsai technique really is ??

----------------------------------

let me tell you this, if you use this technique and use it right, you plants will benefit from it, A LOT! ALL STRAINS!!!!!

 

[redspaghetti]

And the world keeps laughing...



So i will have to start a "defoliated" plant at least 4+ weeks earlier just for it to keep up if i defoliate in veg as k33ftr33z and many other defoliators advise?

No wonder no defoliators arent doing side by sides and run for cover by slinging abuse and labeling people trolls and nay sayers when they even suggest it. How lame...




OMG you so badly abused BOGs Sour Bubble with defoliation that you "got rid of it".
You have no idea of the value of the genes you trashed and surely did not and do not deserve them.



I will bet my house that we will NEVER see a side by side with a proven 25% increase. EVER!




This bonsai technique is a waste of time for ALL people ALL of the time unless bonsai is the goal. You are so close to admiting it, what is it that stops you? Pride?



Do you agree that it is dangerous for this thread to be a sticky when the info within could destroy many gardens and the reputation of ICMAG?
I and many others have destroyed plants with this technique even you have..

Sorry JWP i didnt read this line before replying to your messages

you can disregard it

cheers,
red.

 

[redspaghetti]

None defoliation plant

Defol plants

Do it right and not only your plants will grow, it will grow faster than the one that does not get defol,

yeah i am actually saying that hahahahaa

dont go all crazy and strip all leafs, take your time and learn your strains,,,, thats all i can say

cheers,
red.

 

[slowandeasy]

So you admit that for MOST people this technique is not right for.

You also admit for a select few, this technique could be helpful.

So for the most part this technique has extremely limited applications and benefits.

It is what it is. Truth or lie?

Again this is my opinion from my experience. I will say it one more time just for you my friend. The only way to know if it is helpful is to evaluate your own situation and if you feel it could help...try it yourself. I cannot say how it will work for everybody...just myself. everyone has a different set up. I have a lot of experience and can see how my plants react to change. I could visually tell my last yield was bigger and my scale said 25% increase. Claiming it to help everyone would be false on my part.

No, this technique can be used in either VEG, Flower or Both. How you apply it will determine how your plant grows. The people who choose to defoliate in VEG, will have shorter plants with tighter nodes. If you do just in Flower, your plants will be normal height. That is what I did the first time trying defoliating...just in Flower. That is the reason most people who post increased yields know they increased from previous grows...we only defoliated in Flower...so plant size and structure is identical as previous grows. That was the only variable different in my grow from previous grows. Defoliating in VEG is much different, and I can only share my limited experience since I have only tried it in VEG once and the crop is not done yet. But defoliating in VEG will keep it shorter than normal...for sure. For some, that is a blessing...for some...that is a waste.


I am not claiming to be an expert on the subject and only share my experiences. Until more people post results, we will not know exactly whom benefits. Fact is it has increased yields by up to 25% for some people, including me. There are not a ton of people posting experiences, but a ton of people trying to discredit people. The few people who post results get bashed and deemed liars. Screams of more proof and side by side grows are a common theme. I will continue to share my experiences, they are not all positive with this method...but that goes for any method.

 

[redspaghetti]

Teacher : Heres a book, study it and take your time, you will ace the test

Student A : Thanks, ill take my time to read, practice and make sure ill ace the test

Student B : Thanks, ill read and practice to try for best result

Student C : This is all wrong, even the teacher!!!

3 months later

Student A : wow i get 100 % thanks teacher!

Student B : wtf how did i fail like this, i read once and practiced once, damn do i need to study more to ace the test or what ?? this is bull shit

Student C: Student A you're bullshiting, you didnt get 100 % ... even when you showed me proof i still dont believe you ...



this is what i get out of this thread lol

cheers guys,