+rep for helping a brother out

[dachieftan]

A week ago my gals were very lively and happy. They were lushiously green and everything was grand. Then I saw some signs of spider mites and I went overboard. I foliar sprayed with neem and Safer's End all (http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5102). I made the rookie mistake of foliar spraying under a 24 hr veg cycle. I now realize that water droplets can act like mini magnifying glasses and burn the leaves. Okay so the new growth should not be affected right? Wrong! the new growth is starting to show twisting which makes me think it is a nutrient deficiency or lockout. I think it is a phosphorus deficiency for the following reasons:
-Ph of all plants is from 5.8-6.7 so I doubt Phosphorus is getting locked out by ph.
-The petioles are purple
-leaves feel brittle to the touch
-The brown/yellow discoloration starts at the perimeter of the leaf blades and works its way towards the middle and the leaf claws up and falls off.
-The leaves start getting these discolorations towards the bottom of the plant and it works it's way towards the top which correct me if I'm wrong but that is the symptoms of a macro nutrient (NPK) deficiency.
-I don't think it's a fungus because the discolorations are symmetrical and the new growth is twisting.

My city tap water fluxuates between 5.4-7 and it is a PITA! I often have to use ph up and down from earth juice to get at 6.5. I hate adding stuff to the water that feeds my gals but it is necessary to avoid ph problems and I don't have enough cash for an RO machine. The temps. are 85F if I'm not paying attention during the heat of the day and the lowest I've seen is 62F.

 

[dachieftan]

How long has this problem been going on? 1 week
What STRAIN are you growing? Sour diesel, green crack, blue fruit, 2x mandala safari mix, white widow.
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) green crack and sour diesel were clones but the rest were seeds
What is the age of your plants?1.5 months
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 1 month
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?transplanted into fresh soil 1 month ago. New soil is the same mixture as the old.
How Tall are the plants? less than 1 foot
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) LST & supercropping
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 1 gallon. 1 plant per pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) roots organic base soil with subcool's super soil amendments
What brand Nutrient's are you using? liquid karma and plant success mychorizae
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* about a teaspoon of liquid karma per gallon of water
How often are you feeding? every third watering
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? no
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 5.7-6.7
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? every watering
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? hanna ph pen
How often are you watering? when pots fill light and dirt isn't damp. every 3-5 days.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? last feeding was 6 days ago and feed once every 2-3 waterings.
What size bulb are you using? t-5 cfl
How old is your bulbs? less than a year
What is the distance to the canopy?3-4''
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)40-60
What is the canopy temperature? 79
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 84 max/ 62 low
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 150cfm
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? fans blow directly on plants with closet door open. AC clicks on durring the heat of the day from 12pm-6:30 pm
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? in b/w waterings yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? The hardness averages around 96 ppm or 5.6 grains per gallon.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap filtered though carbon filter
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? yes
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? yes. about 4 days ago.
Are plant's infected with pest's? None that I can see.

 

[hydr1]

I don't really see the question here. You fried your leaves with poison, but you don't like adding oh adjustments to your feed.
do you even have mites still? I use a product called judo for mites in vg. Its systemic so when they bite they die and they are infertile if the survive.
your plants leaves are fried from the pesticides you used. Judo is used with lights on no problems.
Your leaves may grow back bro, just leave them be and give em a week...lower the light intensity for a week. Run with just flouros at half strength. Sounds like you did more damge than the mites.

P.s. mites love dry hot conditions...cold and humidity slow down their reproduction. When you kill them you will need to hit em every week for three weeks. Or just twicewith a two week break to kill adults and hatching eggs. Check new clones brought in and dip the whole cuts in neem solution or alcohol



Edit: cut off any leaf that is more than half dead always....you need plants that size in a 3 gallon pot prob. Usually I go by one foot of growth per gallon...three feet and over need at least a five gallon.
also soil runs out of nutrients after two weeks. So they will show huger after that. Liquid karma is only humic acids in very low dose and an additive. You need some nutrients. If your going the organic route id try a tea...get a five gallob bucket and add an air stone . Mix 1 tbsp of bat guanno, 1 tbspn of kelp extract, your mychrozae solution and 1 tbspn of molases. Put all that in a panty hose and hang it into the bucket. After a day of bubbling at room temperature you will have guanno tea...damn near free nutes.

So up pot and soil change will give you two more weeks of nutes...get something for after that or make some teas.

 

[dachieftan]

is this signs of a phosphorus deficiency?

is this signs of a phosphorus deficiency?

 

[dachieftan]

You fried your leaves with poison

If that is the case, why would the new growth start twisting? Shouldn't the new growth be growing normally, if I just burned the older leaves?

ou don't like adding oh adjustments to your feed.

I don't like adding ph adjustments b/c it seems to leave a slimy residue if left out in plain water. My city water sucks so I have to use more than I feel comfortable using.

do you even have mites still?

I have been keeping an eye out for the lil bastards but I don't see any.

Sounds like you did more damge than the mites

you can say that again bro.

Check new clones brought in and dip the whole cuts in neem solution or alcohol

I haven't gotten any clones from outside sources in a long time. I think it was a fellow friend who has a mite problem that came over and probably went into his grow room before he came over to mine.
I appreciate your help bro. Gotta spread some more rep around before I give you some more so they say.

 

[hydr1]

Read my edit in first post. Not here to argue about why your leaves are twisted...its from the poison. Im telling you not debating. Your plants need to chill for a bit and need to be transplanted and fed.

 

[TGT]

I have used 'End All' religeously for mites with many different strains and have never seen any problems with burn't or deformed leaves after using. Actually, I have found this product works great when sprayed over and under the leaves, stems, stalks and such. I soak them thoroughly, then do it again after 1 week, usually with 100% success. I love the product.

There could be a few possible answers why this seemed to do this to your plants from my experience. First off, you always have to cover where the main stock meets the soil with plastic or cardboard. This prevents the chemical from dripping into the soil. Too much 'End All' in the soil can kill the plant or harm it, but its symptoms I have never experienced. Also, a good shake of the plant after spraying is a good idea if put under lights again right away. Another thing to remember is too not only shake the plants, but the 'End All' bottle as well. If let to settle it could be covering the plants with concentrated poison. A very good shake is necessary always for both the plants and bottle. Raise the lights for a time being after a good soak.

The other reason, which I am only guessing is may be the combination of the two chemicals used had a bad effect on the plants. I don't know for sure though as I have never used 'Neem oil' as 'End All' has always worked great for me alone.

How bad was the mite infestation before spraying? Also, is it possible a large amount of 'End All' solution dripped into the soil? Could be the spray alone as I have always shook my plants after soak, and you might not have?

Hope this helps a little, let me know if there are any other factors or ideas you might have to add. If what I stated above is possible, a good watering to clear the soil might be in order.

Oh ya, I forgot to mention, in the past I have found using PH adjustment of tap water with soil usually caused more harm then good. Might be a good idea to see what happens just with water and nutes. If it doesn't go well, its a fast and easy fix.

Good luck!

TGT

 

[dachieftan]

Read my edit in first post. Not here to argue about why your leaves are twisted...its from the poison. Im telling you not debating. Your plants need to chill for a bit and need to be transplanted and fed.

Not trying to argue with ya man. Sorry if I came off that way. I know that your just trying to help me and for that I'm grateful.

How bad was the mite infestation before spraying? Also, is it possible a large amount of 'End All' solution dripped into the soil? Could be the spray alone as I have always shook my plants after soak, and you might not have?

I'm pretty sure the infestation was barely starting which makes me feel foolish for going overboard like I did. I had problems with mites in the past and you really have to go to war with them. I think it is very possible that the end all dripped into the soil b/c fans were still on. Very good info indeed. I always shake up my bottles before I use them.

Oh ya, I forgot to mention, in the past I have found using PH adjustment of tap water with soil usually caused more harm then good. Might be a good idea to see what happens just with water and nutes. If it doesn't go well, its a fast and easy fix.

Man I wish I could do that.... but like i said my city water averages a ph of 5.5 which is borderline lockout levels.

 

[Squire5683]

Chief... Ph up makes your water slimy? Ive never seen that. I know its a different direction, but I use PH down since my city water is 6.8, and I take it down to 5.8.

As far as the curled new growths, the mist from your spraying sat in the little crevices at the base of your new leaves where the new growths are forming, and baked that area. Im not sure about your footprint or wattage, but it sounds like you just burned your girls pretty good. Theyre stressed, givem a few days to re coop and you should see newer growth growing normal. Youre gonna have some funky twisted leaves coming out, but right behind them will be normal

Good luck bro!!

 

[dachieftan]

I'm sure that the combination of using pest control such as neem and pyrethian with the lights on is what contributed to the "burned" look. There was something wrong with my soil and I think it was too rich with nutrients in combination with the pest control products possibly leaking down into the roots. I since repotted and cut my super soil with a more alkaline soil from a local garden center. Since my tap water is hard, I don't have to adjust it as often b/c of the water's low PH automatically bring down the PH of the alkaline soil. I then covered all my bases with a guano/EWC tea. I used one TBS of N and P bat guano, used some liquid sea kelp for K, about a 1/2 cup of EWC, and a tablespoon of organic molasses. Since then, babies have made a full recovery and are about to stretch their tired little bodies under the red spectrum.

Youre gonna have some funky twisted leaves coming out, but right behind them will be normal

ur spot on with that one brother

I would like to thank every1 amongst our community for their time and efforts.
Peace, love, and good vibes to all!
Dachieftan