Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[staff11]

My 4 defoliated plant still look like crap 10 days later. How long until they recover? I was hoping to flower by now

Then you probably had issues before you started. And really you need to reread the thread and realize defoliation of a plant in veg adds weeks..... Not days to the process.

 

[staff11]

General Observations and Thoughts from my recent doings in Defoliation, and from statements in this Thread......

Lower/Middle Buds exposed to light from defol are noticably bigger and more mature than buds left shaded (same plant). I am guessing that a plant defoliated in flower will react the same, regaurdless if it was done in veg. There are times when slowing growth is neccesary in veg to not overgrow a space, and defol appears to help when done quickly.

Fan leaves do not grow back, but defol gives energy to remaining nodes for growth, I dont believe more energy is used and taken away from budding, perhaps the same amount of energy continues, just on remaining available smaller leaves.

Defoliating slowly over several days did not noticably slow growth.

Humidity is lower with less fan leaves on plants/in room.

I do not Defol in veg because I can get the plant the size and shape I want by LST, Supercropping, Bending, and Pinching without stalling growth. Once the 12/12 stretch starts to slow, I like to defol slowly starting with the biggest shade leaves, and again, doing it this way at this time, does not seem to stall plant. But, I am absolutely convinced that buds IN the light grow bigger faster.

Grey Mold? I recently pulled a sugar leaf out of a bud to inspect under the scope. A few days later I noticed a couple of the calyxes turning greyish and dry. Upon close inspection I realized I had severed the calyx from the stem and it simply dried out and there was not any mold or mildew present. Could this be what you experienced? I have seen cut stems sweat, so it is not unbelievable that it could happen.

Defoliation is not a one way street with guarenteed results, but has generalized benefits depending on how and when you do it. But with a little trial and error, you can add it as a beneficial tool to use when needed. Once you learn how your plants respond to different techniques, you can control it like a Puppeteer.

As I collect more data, and play around a little more, I reserve the right to alter my beliefs. These are my beliefs from actually trying things as suggested in this thread (not verbatim). And for that I want to Thank all the Do-ers for sharing their experiences!

Thank You!

Thanks for sharing. Again though it's not what is advised in this thread. Glad it works for you!

 

[staff11]

I give no respect for posts coming from someone who has "no time" to go through old posts to show the "proof" he continues to claim is there...

...but he has all the time in the world to nit pick through the last post of someone asking for more "clear" proof.

The haters in this thread are those claiming all the needed proof is already here. The true believers in the method are requesting to PLEASE see something more clear, as what exists now is quite questionable.

Now this technique is "advanced" and has "limited applications" and anyone hoping to employ it should read through 150 pages of mostly BS before cutting one leaf because those who know how to "defoliate properly" don't have the time or inclination to be more clear of the methods.

Actually just read the first fucking page. Don't need to see 100 of your negative posts.

 

[staff11]

Only took off fans. I knew it was a bad idea but i still did it..

Yeah my goal when i plant a seed is to kill it.

You obviously skipped the part that says YOU DO THIS WITH CLONED PLANTS... NOT SEEDS.

 

[staff11]

Did you try defoliating a plant from seed? I would never defoliate a plant from seed...only clones. If you read the whole thread, you would see that defoliating in veg will add weeks onto your veg time. There is no rule that you have to defoliate in Veg. If you are like me and have to veg for a long time...you are not adding veg time. Defoliating in Veg will slow your plants vertical growth big time. As I have stated time and time again, I do not suggest defoliating in Veg unless you HAVE to or Want to veg over 4 weeks. Anything less is a waste IMO

Except that the original technique explained on the first page states EXACTLY to do it on Veg. Not start in flower......

Enough of this though, why even try to explain to people what they just don't want to hear.

 

[angel4us]

clones only????????????

clones only????????????

sorry but it works for seed plants also!!!!!!!!! its not restricted to clones..... peace

 

[JWP]

Then you probably had issues before you started. And really you need to reread the thread and realize defoliation of a plant in veg adds weeks..... Not days to the process.

Does that mean that if i have to add %30 to my grow time i should also deduct 30% from my final yield?

If i do that then defoliation is a Low-Yield Technique..

30% longer for the same result?

You obviously skipped the part that says YOU DO THIS WITH CLONED PLANTS... NOT SEEDS.

You obviously have read it! Appart from just repeating rubbish you have read please explain the logic behind this recommendation?

A seed plant will be better able to recover from defoliation abuse because the plant will have a better developed root & vascular system.

So how is it that clones only should be used when logically a seed plant will be better able to cope?

 

[JWP]

Enough of this though, why even try to explain to people what they just don't want to hear.

I cant wait to hear your reply staff11! But i ask the questions and 10 mins later you go offline without a reply???

 

[overmyhead]

Have you thought that maybe genetics have something to do with your yield? Or maybe instead of spending time vegging, just do a mini sog? I just pulled a 10 gal rubbermaid tub with 8 bbk's that were put in 12/12 straight from a 9oz solo (3 weeks from taken as cuttings) and yielded over 8z's under a 400w hps. THey were heavily defoliated throughout flower. Just a thought. And, no there are no pics from that one but I have no reason to lie. I'm doing some more in 1 gal smart pot type pots under that one now, straight from cup to 1212, just pro mix and osmocote plus, no training except defol so it should be interesting.

You wont see any pictures because the plant was chopped and cooked down into rice crispy treats before the idea even dawned on me that the mold could have come from defoliation.

I started defoliating two plant in Veg. The one I stopped defoliating yielded 2.5oz, the most I have ever yielded from one plant under my 400w lamp.

The one I continued defoliating and repeatedly asked advice for in this thread developed grey mold in the largest of colas on the plant. Due to the fact I chopped and cooked the plant there were no dry weights recorded, but from my eyeball, the yield did not significantly increase, if at all, considering I tossed a quarter oz to the dirt when I found the grey mold.

I didn't become so vocal about desiring to PLEASE see a legitimate side by side until after the technique did not work for me.

Why are you so eager to see pictures of failures when its so easy to show side by side a success and a failure?

Showing you pictures of a failed grey mold plant does nothing without a side by side comparison, just as showing fat nugs without a side by side shows nothing - for comparison.

 

[slowandeasy]

sorry but it works for seed plants also!!!!!!!!! its not restricted to clones..... peace

Sure it can work on seed plants...but IMO stressing a plant from seed could result in a hermie. Not saying it will, but I am not willing to take that risk. Once you know what is Male and Female, then I would start...but that is just me.

 

[JWP]

Sure it can work on seed plants...but IMO stressing a plant from seed could result in a hermie. Not saying it will, but I am not willing to take that risk. Once you know what is Male and Female, then I would start...but that is just me.

How is a mother and a clone any different genetically?

Now your saying the same stress can make the mother (seed plant) herm but the clone is less likely to herm?

This whole thread is full to brim of rubbish talk like this.

Seriously none of you have any idea what you are talking about lol

 

[slowandeasy]

Except that the original technique explained on the first page states EXACTLY to do it on Veg. Not start in flower......

Enough of this though, why even try to explain to people what they just don't want to hear.

I could care less what the original technique says. I have done it in Veg and also only in Flower. If you do not want or need to veg over 4 weeks...defoliating in veg is a waste....period. It will require more veg time vs a non defoliated plant. Now if you do not mind or are like me and have to veg a long time...defoliate in Veg and it will produce a shit ton of future bud sites and keep your plants much shorter. Perfect for me...but defoliating just in Flower works as well. Your plant structure will be different, much taller plants....in which you might as well trim the bottom stuff off.

The original poster trims nothing from the bottom and defoliates in Veg, due to lack of height. It really depends on your set up and how long you need to veg. If you are actually adding weeks onto your grow, I am not sure it is worth it...but if you HAVE or WANT to veg a long time...defoliating in veg is worth it. But as I have stated many times...there is no rule that you have to defoliate in Veg.

 

[Zombie420]

How is a mother and a clone any different genetically?

Now your saying the same stress can make the mother (seed plant) herm but the clone is less likely to herm?

This whole thread is full to brim of rubbish talk like this.

Seriously none of you have any idea what you are talking about lol

JWP, you are being intentionally disruptive and rude to the other members of this website, on a consistent basis. This is a heavily moderated forum. Keep that in mind.

 

[slowandeasy]

How is a mother and a clone any different genetically?

Now your saying the same stress can make the mother (seed plant) herm but the clone is less likely to herm?

This whole thread is full to brim of rubbish talk like this.

Seriously none of you have any idea what you are talking about lol

Obviously you do not know what you are talking about. Plants can change sex if stressed from seed much easier. They can also change sex from clone...but much less likely. Anytime you grow a plant for the first time...from seed...doing anything stressful is just stupid. Grow the plant normally, sex it, clone it...then experiment. How is anything I said rubbish? I said you could defoliate from seed....but I personally never would. It would be a waste to do anything stressful before knowing sex. Now does that make sense to you?

 

[Madrus Rose]

A ChemD ...pruned up & done proper.

Not all fans are/have to be removed but plant denuded up 1/2 meter or so
always gonna get that "push" going to the top colas which are spread out & fall within that most potent, useable light zone of 1/2meter down under the properly positioned light . Below this light has diminished to barely useable levels . More aeration to the under-canopy...more aeration to the pot zone .

This is one heavy bitch in 10gal coco perfectly done
(props to pigfarmer over on the cabana)

https://www.thecannacabana.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6621&page=75https://www.thecannacabana.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6621&page=75

 

[TruthOrLie]

Okay, so here is an example.

The was a vendor trying to sell LED lamps here at ICmag.

Many called BS, some were curious to purchase. A few people did a side by side...

Guess what, while the LED nugs were comparable to HID, the quality of the nugs differed because one is grown under higher heat conditions, which helps to destroy some trichomes.

Without the side by side, this technicality could easily have been glossed over.

You claim you get an extra ounce or two or four from this method, but what does it matter if your potency has gone down?

Twice as much bud with half the potency is still the same amount of active ingredient in your product.

If you're more concerned with growing fluff to fill a bag to make some bucks, don't do a side by side.

If you're more concerned with discovering true benefits of a technique, do a side by side.

I'm sorry to have to continue to stress the importance of such a study, but there are some members here who would hate to see a side by side even happen because they claim it just can't be done.

CHALLENGE!

 

[Boerman]

If grey mold is from the _environment_ then BOTH my plants side by side each other would have developed grey mold.

^^^^Thats not quite correct.

you may have a latent infection,where the plant is infected but symptoms of the disease may not be produced for a considerable time.In some crops the fungus can enter flowers and colonises the developing bud, but does not break out and cause a rot until the bud begins to ripen and sugar content rises.

Lets clear a few thing up about grey mould.

Grey mould is a disease caused by the fungus Botrytis cinerea. It normally enters through a wound or infects plants under stress, but will infect healthy plants as well, especially under humid conditions. It can be expected at any time of year.

Botrytis cinerea is an ubiquitous fungus, whose airborne spores are always present. It thrives as a saprophyte (a micro-organism living on dead organic material), but can also infect living plants under certain conditions.

On green plant parts, a wound or other stress is usually needed for infection, but on flowers and fruits it can infect without wounds, particularly under humid conditions.

Hygiene is very important. Remove dead and dying leaves,promptly

Do not leave dead plant material lying around.

Reduce humidity by improving ventilation and do not overcrowd plants.

XXXX(Grey mold is caused by a pathogen, a small particle which finds a place to live and reproduce.)XXXXX Not true.

Grey mould is formed when the airborne spore finds the correct environment to live in.

the pathogen that this spore carries infects your plant.

The fungus can form black, seed-like resting structures (sclerotia) in dead plant tissue,
this can then carry the fungus through periods when host plants are scarce.

These then germinate to generate the sexual structures which in turn release a second, sexual, spore. These can initiate infections, but most of the damage is done by spread of the airborne, a-sexual spores (conidia) released from the fuzzy grey fungal growth.

Also if you want to be pedantic, as we now know the sex of the spores, the correct name for your fungus would be Botryotinia fuckeliana as this is the PATHOGEN and the causal agent of grey mould.

Hope this clears a few things up.

But in laymen's terms it was your fault,your room is to warm and moist with poor ventilation,

Clearly,defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold.

The fact that you removed leaves of your plants, only highlighted your poor environment,by the onset of these infections.

BoB

Well said, Bob-Hope. The only thing I might disagree with you is that "Clearly,defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold". Clearly TruthOrLie thinks it had something to do with it, but it may not have had anything to do with it. Other than creating a very small open wound, everything suggested by all the pluckers in this thread would reduce the threat of mold. Mold doesn't like light. This technique brings more light. Mold likes humidity. This technique reduces transpiration and, thus, humidity. Mold likes stagnant air. This technique reduces impediments to air flow. Yes, mold infection can be systemic, entering through a wound farther from the area where the infection manifests itself. But mold spores usually find their way to the middle of a big, fat, moist bud and do their damage, mostly unseen for a long time. You just don't see mold on small buds. If others using this technique were experiencing increased occurance of mold, then I would have to ponder the notion that plucking leaves may increase susceptibility to mold. But that is not the case. The logical and most likely cause of this mold case is grower incompetence and error.

 

[TruthOrLie]

In defense of this technique, the plant which molded was a denser nugged indica bush while the one that did not mold was a fluffier nugged sativa tree.

BUT... I have run the denser nugged indica bush for over a year now and not once have I ever developed grey mold until I used defoliation.

Maybe it was the time of year? I dunno. I didn't do a side by side...

...WHICH IS EXACTLY MY POINT... your nugs may be screwed or ballooned but without a side by side who is to claim its from defoliation and NOT SOMETHING ELSE?

 

[maxibiogreen]

Any decent grower can see this is a poor grow right here. And these are the examples that have convinced a lot of people that this is a good idea.

What an ass backwards idea.






"defol in VEG slows down growth considerably"
couldnt have said it better myself! How am i supposed to get "tighter nodes" if i dont defoliate in veg? k33f does it in veg?

"removed mostly all of their only source of photosynthesis"
wow we agree! but you think its a good idea to do this when? At a time when the plant is at its maximum growth potential???

None of you make any sense at all.

In this post i do agree with JWP.
Is it true people that you believe your plants yield more buds this way???? The plants looks bad 60% is a naked stem the 40 % remaining are small buds on a dying plant.
The leaves you are removing while using your "defoliation tech." are called the FOOD LEAVES the upper parts is used for the process of photosynthesis and the part underneath is used through stomata to process C02,02 and reject excedent H2O so they are really important for the plant.

Photosyntesis is in fact the process of transformation of elements (nutrients) ,CO2 into "plant food" with the help of light. This is as simple as things can be explained.
So after all people if you d rather have half dead plants in your gardens just keep doing it if it makes you happy but do not pretend it s a high yield technique.


PS/ an healthy plant looks like this and I can tell this delivers a lot of nice buds




WHY NOT DEFOLIATE AT HARVEST TIME INSTEAD????



LOL

 

[Boerman]

I started defoliating two plant in Veg. The one I stopped defoliating yielded 2.5oz, the most I have ever yielded from one plant under my 400w lamp.

The one I continued defoliating and repeatedly asked advice for in this thread developed grey mold in the largest of colas on the plant. Due to the fact I chopped and cooked the plant there were no dry weights recorded, but from my eyeball, the yield did not significantly increase, if at all, considering I tossed a quarter oz to the dirt when I found the grey mold.

OK, so you defoliated a plant partway thru its cycle and you got a record yield from that plant. To what do you attribute this record?

From your eyeball the yield did not significantly increase???? From your EYEBALL??????? Considering the demands you try to put on others, I find your lenience with yourself to be quite surprizing.