Organic Soil Bed

[statusquo]

Greetings,
My dad and I used scrap wood that was left over to make two beds for winter crops and for future summer crops. I was wondering where I would be able to go for 250 cubic feet of a soil base? Would I be able to order large amounts of organic ammendments at a nursery for discount or would I have to go to some kind of feed/agriculture store?

In regards to letting organic soil sit, I was wondering if this 2 week minimum/month(s) guide for letting the soil sit could be cut down by applying teas? I plan on letting the new soil sit 2 weeks regardless and then using some organic soil that's been sitting for about 2 months now for the top layer.
All help/tips are appreciated, thanks

 

[Scrappy4]

statusquo, When I started mixing soil to use growing mj, I used to start the plants in dry soil, and it worked fine. Apparently there is enough in the soil the plants can use until the microbes kick in gear full time. Good luck let us know how the grow progreses......scrappy

 

[jaykush]

yes check out local nursers and landscaping supplies. around here there are multiple places i can go buy a cubic yard of compost. or even 20 yards of compost. topsoil, sand, clay, whatever i want even pre mixed soils ( not so great mixes though more for veggies) it comes out WAY cheaper this way.

 

[statusquo]

Thanks for the replies guys. Ironically this will be for winter-season veggies - the ladies already have a home haha. I might use one of the beds for the next years outdoor but ya. Given it's just veggies and that my dad doesn't really care about what quality we use at all as long as I do the work (just doesn't want to spend a fortune like you would at a hydro store).

So just to clarify jay, there are going to be landscaping type stores or nurseries around the county that will sell ~11 cubic yards worth of amendments? What about guanos/what type of manures or meals would they typically have available in large quantities? I'll look around later tonight to see whats available it would just be nice to know ahead of time what's doable. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[jaykush]

how many acres do you plan on growing to need yards of guano.

from your first post you said you need 250 cubic ft of soil, which is only like 9 cubic yards. i can call 5 places locally and have it delivered in a few hours. most cities will have at least one.

if you fill the beds with compost and topsoil with a little sand or pumice for aeration you wont need very many fert's the first season. top dressings of guano could easily be done. and a 50 lb bag should be more than enough( the largest local nursuries sell here). you can also buy plant meals ( alfalfa, kelp, etc..) and if its just for veggies you dont even need the amendments. good compost will have everything you need to grow great food.

you need to think base soil mix before thinking of amendments.

whats the soil like on your property?

 

[statusquo]

The reason I ask about amendments is because I have never purchased more than roughly a quart of guano - the super expensive small bags @ the hydro store. I just wanted to make sure larger amounts were readily available at a reasonable price. I'm probably not going to use guanos for this bed for a couple reasons - ethics & cost. I realize I wouldn't need cubic yards of any amendments, however ^_^. I would like to avoid pre-made compost/base soil just because I like knowing exactly what's in my soil and I don't trust a lot of the soil companies haha (i'm sure there are reputable and nice companies but too many times I've been displeased with the quality). Plus I have no idea what is in 'their' compost =/ In addition I'm shooting for a little extra soil as I'm going to use some for my indoor.

As for my base, here is what I'm planning to do depending on whether I end up making my base soil from scratch of pre-bought. The percentages add up vertically to 100% and equal roughly 10.5 cubic yards:

• 20-20% castings – ~2.1 yards^3 (56 ft^3)
• 30-20% pumice - ~2.1 yards^3 (56 ft^3)
• 50-60% scratch/pre-made soil ~6.1 yards^3 (168 ft^3)
• 15 gallons of dolomite lime (2.4ft^3) - already have this

In regards to ferts/amendments/meals:
~10 gallons of blood/kelp meal ~1.3 ft^3
~10 gallons Greensand ~1.3 ft^3
~20 gallons bone meal ~2.7 ft^3

Edit: the soil on my property is poor. Lots of clay (south-west) and sand left-over from previous owners. Also, it's under my dad's budget so as long as it's not astronomical he won't care - shoot I'll be saving him money making stuff from scratch and doing the labor I'll benefit too from having some left-over soil and hopefully left over amendments/soil base components.
I've also been considering buying a ton of everything and making a bunch of soil to sell to close friends that grow MJ and my dad's friends that garden in general. Anybody do this before/is it viable? Not trying to make very much just worth my effort and time to try and knock down my soil prices.

 

[jaykush]

if you look around at the places that sell bulk soil most if not all will let you look at the soil or compost first. simply taking a look at the soil and even asking for a soil analysis ( the good places do it ) should give you a clue on quality. and these places don't sell soil like fox farm or whatever mix so its not those kind of companies.

other than that your base mix looks pretty good. i would add some rock powders like glacial rock dusts or azomite and some biochar ( pre nutrient treated ) to give your beds some extra oomph. and since your growing veggies i doubt you would need to do anything but top dress every now and then for the first season.

does scratch soil mean native soil? if so what type of soil is it?

 

[statusquo]

Scratch just refers to buying the peat + pumice + dolomite as my base mix instead of buying a pre-made mix like pro-mix or pre-made compost or something. If I can take a look at the soil and check out the analysis though I would be comfortable buying their premade stuff as a base. Also knowing that they wouldn't be similar to FF (the company that initially turned me off to pre-packaged soils) is much more comforting haha. Thank you

And I didn't know that veggies would require less ferts and what not - I was under the ignorant assumption that cannabis was a weed and required less ferts than most other plants. Either way, I would like to have extra stuff lying around for previous mixes anyways since I'm tired of paying like $10 for a small bag of guano that's roughly a quart hahaha.

I'll look into the rock dusts/azomite/biochar. I remember a thread containing info on the first two and I'll look around for stuff on biochar (no clue what this is). Just wondering what the benefit to dust/azomite would be (IIRC it's trace minerals and what not - if this is the case wouldn't kelp meal, other amendments and occasional molasses feedings take care of this?)

 

[h.h.]

Any horses around? Some local communities here will provide truckloads for free. . Use some steer manure. Again add worms. Bails of straw are cheap and laid a couple inches thick makes good cover. Add some alfalfa. By the time you add weed it will e cooked down. Ypu want the N for veggies, not so much for buds.
Save all the expensive amendments for growing in pots when a higher concentration is needed.

 

[jaykush]

Scratch just refers to buying the peat + pumice + dolomite as my base mix instead of buying a pre-made mix like pro-mix or pre-made compost or something. If I can take a look at the soil and check out the analysis though I would be comfortable buying their premade stuff as a base. Also knowing that they wouldn't be similar to FF (the company that initially turned me off to pre-packaged soils) is much more comforting haha. Thank you

i would consider buying compost instead of peat and lime. compost will give you MUCH better results by far. it will give you less problems and last 100x longer than peat in a soil bed. and yea the compost wont come as anything closely resembling fox farm. and trust me i hate bagged soils as much as you do if not more. think of the compost as a base, to it all you really need to add is some topsoil, some aeration and thats about it other than some top dressings once a week or two.

And I didn't know that veggies would require less ferts and what not - I was under the ignorant assumption that cannabis was a weed and required less ferts than most other plants. Either way, I would like to have extra stuff lying around for previous mixes anyways since I'm tired of paying like $10 for a small bag of guano that's roughly a quart hahaha.

youll be surprised how much food you can grow with the initial filling of the bed. cannabis can be a pretty heavy feeder. compared to say lettuce and beans.

I'll look into the rock dusts/azomite/biochar. I remember a thread containing info on the first two and I'll look around for stuff on biochar (no clue what this is). Just wondering what the benefit to dust/azomite would be (IIRC it's trace minerals and what not - if this is the case wouldn't kelp meal, other amendments and occasional molasses feedings take care of this?)

the rock dusts and azomite will provide minerals and trace elements ( more than kelp yes, azomite has around 80 minerals and trace elements. this imo kick starts soil to grow some amazing food. we do have a thread here on it called soil remineralization. the biochar, check out the sticky thread called "terra preta"

 

[statusquo]

Awesome! Thanks so much guys and I totally forgot some local farmers have cow/horse manure for free! I'll definitely think about that and I might end up going with used coffee from my local organic, fair-trade, shade-grown coffee 'cafe' =P. Ground and packaged on site and they have a bunch of extra for free everyday. Already got a bunch of dolomite lime so I'm thinking I'll go with the compost like Jay is recommending and then use the coffee as an N fert in addition to the other stuff I posted (at lower amounts, obviously).

 

[h.h.]

Horse poop preferably that hasn't been treated with lime to help it decompose. They might have a spot where they dump their manure that will be somewhat decomposed. Use the fresh sparingly, especially if not using horse. We've been top dressing pomegranate tree cuttings with fresh horse. Pick nitrogen loving veggies for the first 6 months.
I understand in ND anyway there are certain organisms missing in the soil prohibiting tree growth.( Pops was a soil scientist up there. Lived in a tent. Brrr...probably why I grew up in the desert.) I don't know how this affects other species, but some sort of EM inoculant might be in order.

 

[jaykush]

also its best to know if they used de-wormers and other bad chemicals on the horses. this WILL end up in the shit, into the compost and into your soil.

 

[h.h.]

We've received horse from various sources. I'm sure some were dewormed. Other than perhaps losing the organic label, it supports worm beds and makes a good garden.
I guess the concern would be with picking it up in vegetables grown in fresh poop, in which case the concentration would e very low.