Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[VerdantGreen]

ive followed the thread from the beginning, but i feel that now it's a sticky and it says 'high yield technique' in the title that people will go ahead and do it even if they have no experience in growing whatsoever. imo if you are going to do this then it should be something you do after you have run a cut a few times and you have it dialled in in every other way. like i said defoliation plays into the desire of many new growers to be proactive and they always want to be doing something to their plants.
just saying.... - i have every respect for the K33 the thread starter, but as he said himself - this doesnt produce record breaking yields even for him.
it seems that a lot of people have tried this method and its not worked for them, and i would bet that just as many have tried it and think it works for them because they dont know any better.

VG

 

[mugenbao]

i feel that now it's a sticky and it says 'high yield technique' in the title that people will go ahead and do it even if they have no experience in growing whatsoever. imo if you are going to do this then it should be something you do after you have run a cut a few times and you have it dialled in in every other way.

That makes perfect sense to me. But then, you're not the first person to say something similar; this thread is well-stocked with cautions and warnings, and outright disagreement that it's a worthwhile technique. There's no shortage of warnings, and a wide range of views have been presented

I just have to say that I have no patience whatsoever for people who can't be bothered to read an entire thread. If a new grower goes out and reads only the first page of any given thread, and starts screwing around with their plants based on something they didn't think through or research well, they are very likely going to get lousy results. That's their fault, really.

If a somewhat misleading thread title carries more weight in their mind than the content of the thread itself, well... For someone like that, no number of warnings are going to be sufficient. They will either learn from painful experience, or they will be doomed to perpetual failure. That's their choice, and I can't feel too sorry for people who can't be bothered to read beyond the "that sounds interesting" phase.

BTW, I'm not addressing the validity of the practice, as I'm not qualified to do so. I just felt compelled to address the "noobs might do something drastic" kinds of comments

.

 

[TruthOrLie]

You expect someone to read 146 pages about a simple leaf removing technique that is supposed to increase yields noticeably?

If the method is as simple as put forward, why should anyone have to read 146 pages of the same info to get the picture?

If anything, 146 pages of dispute should be enough to temporarily unsticky this thread until we see a legitimate side by side.

 

[slowandeasy]

That makes perfect sense to me. But then, you're not the first person to say something similar; this thread is well-stocked with cautions and warnings, and outright disagreement that it's a worthwhile technique. There's no shortage of warnings, and a wide range of views have been presented

I just have to say that I have no patience whatsoever for people who can't be bothered to read an entire thread. If a new grower goes out and reads only the first page of any given thread, and starts screwing around with their plants based on something they didn't think through or research well, they are very likely going to get lousy results. That's their fault, really.

If a somewhat misleading thread title carries more weight in their mind than the content of the thread itself, well... For someone like that, no number of warnings are going to be sufficient. They will either learn from painful experience, or they will be doomed to perpetual failure. That's their choice, and I can't feel too sorry for people who can't be bothered to read beyond the "that sounds interesting" phase.

BTW, I'm not addressing the actual practice, as I'm not qualified to do so. I just wanted to address the "noobs might do something drastic" kinds of comments

.

My thoughts exactly! Anytime you try a new method, you have to do your homework. If you have little to no experience, learn to grow first. Nobody is to blame for anything but the growers themselves. Each one of us choose how we do everything, so results will vary no matter what.

 

[slowandeasy]

You expect someone to read 146 pages about a simple leaf removing technique that is supposed to increase yields noticeably?

If the method is as simple as put forward, why should anyone have to read 146 pages of the same info to get the picture?

If anything, 146 pages of dispute should be enough to temporarily unsticky this thread until we see a legitimate side by side.

This thread would be 1/3 the size if people like you did not keep repeating yourself a million times. You failed, let it go...move on. Let the people who actually have valuable things to add do so in peace. You are getting nowhere if you can't tell. Nobody takes you seriously.

BTW, Nobody claims it to be simple and straight forward. There are plenty of Pro's and Con's...which I have listed many times. It is a sticky because it does work for some people very well. Sorry you are not one of them, but there is plenty of proof in the thread that it works for others. Stop ignoring those posts because you were not successful.

 

[mugenbao]

You expect someone to read 146 pages about a simple leaf removing technique that is supposed to increase yields noticeably?

Yes. I did so myself.

I expect people to attempt to learn. I expect anyone who wants to do well in any endeavor to read books, read online, and actually attempt to learn from the experience of others. Anyone who doesn't is never going to be good at what they are trying to do. Especially if they go off half-cocked all the time.

It's one thing to read about something and decide that it's not interesting enough to pursue further, and another thing altogether to read something interesting and do something stupid without attempting to understand what you've read, and not be bothered to read further.

If anything, 146 pages of dispute should be enough to temporarily unsticky this thread until we see a legitimate side by side.

Disagreement is not necessarily justification for not presenting ideas. The whole former hubbub over whether you can grow 4lbs+ plants should prove that, let alone the myriad of other issues where thinking has changed over recent years.

If the method is as simple as put forward, why should anyone have to read 146 pages of the same info to get the picture?

It doesn't take 146 pages before a reader will see whether there's any controversy regarding the technique, though, does it?

 

[TruthOrLie]

This thread would be 1/3 the size if people like you did not keep repeating yourself a million times. You failed, let it go...move on. Let the people who actually have valuable things to add do so in peace. You are getting nowhere if you can't tell. Nobody takes you seriously.

BTW, Nobody claims it to be simple and straight forward. There are plenty of Pro's and Con's...which I have listed many times. It is a sticky because it does work for some people very well. Sorry you are not one of them, but there is plenty of proof in the thread that it works for others. Stop ignoring those posts because you were not successful.

AND, this thread would be 1/3 the size if people like you didn't keep repeating yourself a million times. (Now we'd be down to less than 50 pages!)

I get it, it works for you, but its too complicated for you to show a quality side by side...

so why don't you STFU and allow someone who wants to take the time to show a side by side a chance.

Nobody is taking you seriously. Just because it "works" for you doesn't mean the technique "works".

Sure, you have a crowded veg space, or you like your plants to have a certain structure. Whatever. Show a side by side where you do it to one plant and not to another.

Simple.

My contribution is just as "valuable" as yours because I tried it and it did not "work" for me.

Or are we keeping this thread one sided? Only people who this works for should post?

 

[huntingbb]

This thread would be 1/3 the size if people like you did not keep repeating yourself a million times. You failed, let it go...move on. Let the people who actually have valuable things to add do so in peace. You are getting nowhere if you can't tell. Nobody takes you seriously.

BTW, Nobody claims it to be simple and straight forward. There are plenty of Pro's and Con's...which I have listed many times. It is a sticky because it does work for some people very well. Sorry you are not one of them, but there is plenty of proof in the thread that it works for others. Stop ignoring those posts because you were not successful.

i think the warning several times in the thread to NOT DEFOLIATE ANY LEAVES IN THE BUDS should be expanded to in or directly around... I have a feeling this could likely be a source of mold... I'm definitely gonna have to practice this, I'm a new grower so.... the warnings were all meant for me i 'spose

 

[slowandeasy]

AND, this thread would be 1/3 the size if people like you didn't keep repeating yourself a million times. (Now we'd be down to less than 50 pages!)

I get it, it works for you, but its too complicated for you to show a quality side by side...

so why don't you STFU and allow someone who wants to take the time to show a side by side a chance.

Nobody is taking you seriously. Just because it "works" for you doesn't mean the technique "works".

Sure, you have a crowded veg space, or you like your plants to have a certain structure. Whatever. Show a side by side where you do it to one plant and not to another.

Simple.

My contribution is just as "valuable" as yours because I tried it and it did not "work" for me.

Or are we keeping this thread one sided? Only people who this works for should post?

Actually a ton of people take me seriously. And I have proof. I have a side by side pics in veg for you to see, look back a few pages. Open your eyes and look. I also took plenty of time to list who it benefits and who it does not.
You are obviously one of the people it does not benefit. Stop crying about it and move on. BTW, just wondering how long have you been growing?
No this thread does not have to be one sided, but you keep asking for proof and when people give it....well it is not good enough for anyone. Do a side by side yourself if you are so stuck on that. I have yet to see you show any proof of anything. I have.
People like me and many others do not need to do a side by side to see positive or negative results. If you have been growing a long time and use the same set up every time, you know what your average yield is. You know what you "should" get if you do your strains over and over.

Please just stop demanding side by side grows. Nobody demands anything from you. Take the information you learn and apply it to your grows. If you fail, move on. I state my points very clearly. It is not a perfect method, it is not for everyone, but it works well for others. Those are the facts, just like any other method.

 

[staff11]

I just don't understand the people that won't try it out on their own. No one is going to do the work for you. Do it yourself and stop asking for side by side.

I have learned it adds a few weeks of extra veg so far. Haven't pulled any leaves in flower yet because I just flipped that plant. Like I said I know what I can get out of this cut with just regular topping and training. So while it is not a side by side, it will show which technique works better overall. Just not sure the extra veg is worth it at this point.

 

[milehighmedical]

Just to throw a minor observation into the ring... I see some benefits from de-foliating/pruning my heavy indica's due to the density of their growth and their big, fat leaves. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's necessary, but I find it to be quite helpful to open them up. Now my 50/50 hybrids and heavier sativa's have a wider spacing and grow more openly naturally... so I really don't take much off of them, unless I have to. But, please observe, that I'm not claiming any specific yield increase. There just happens to be some increased general health when I open them up a bit more. Which I assume, ultimately leads to a better over-all yield. But to be honest, calling this a "high-yield technique" is like calling watering a "high-yield technique". It's just some basic plant maintenance throughout it's life that leads to a successful harvest. But, if you're in the defoliation boat, pluck yourself silly and don't worry about other people's opinions on your methods. Just enjoy the glory of your ladies.

 

[TruthOrLie]

Okay, no side by side.

How about a list of strains this is good for?

A list it is bad for?

Oh yea, some phenos it works, some it doesn't. A lot of help that is.

I've been growing longer than you've been a member here, what does that mean?

I tried a new technique, it caused grey mold. I came to warn others, and was labeled a liar and failure.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

 

[staff11]

Okay, no side by side.

How about a list of strains this is good for?

A list it is bad for?

Oh yea, some phenos it works, some it doesn't. A lot of help that is.

I've been growing longer than you've been a member here, what does that mean?

I tried a new technique, it caused grey mold. I came to warn others, and was labeled a liar and failure.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

I have been growing longer then I have been here too.

Really how do you know that this technique caused it?

Usually is not a result of pruning, but of bad growing conditions.

 

[slowandeasy]

Okay, no side by side.

How about a list of strains this is good for?

A list it is bad for?

Oh yea, some phenos it works, some it doesn't. A lot of help that is.

I've been growing longer than you've been a member here, what does that mean?

I tried a new technique, it caused grey mold. I came to warn others, and was labeled a liar and failure.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

I have already stated that for me in Veg, my Sour Bubble did not like it at all. Won't do it again in Veg. All of my Sativas love it. Grapefruit, Space Dawg, Querkle and Galadriel all respond well.

My guess is Indica plants do not like it in Veg, it stunted the Sour Bubble too much. In Flower I only Defoliate around week 3 and 6. I lightly pluck if needed in between.
I ask how long you have been growing, because if you do not have much experience, you could make newbie errors. So you could be growing less than a year! Not ragging on you, but if that is the case...you have zero credibility. I have been doing this for over a decade, so I have some experience.

I am not calling you a liar, I am sure you got gray mold. I would not blame defoliation for that tho. Nobody else has had troubles with mold, infact it increases airflow and decreases humidity when you defoliate.

Years ago in the same set up, one round I got mold on just 1 Grapefruit Cola. Why? The Cola was the size of a 2L bottle of coke. Huge buds require more airflow. I never defoliated til this year. For all we know your humidity could have been high that round or spiked at night. Lack of airflow and high humidity are the main reasons for mold.

To say defoliation caused the mold is wrong. Possibly that in combination with lack of airflow or high humidity. If your environment is favorable for mold, denser buds will get it first. Sometimes you need to just add a fan.

 

[redspaghetti]

Okay, no side by side.

How about a list of strains this is good for?

A list it is bad for?

Oh yea, some phenos it works, some it doesn't. A lot of help that is.

I've been growing longer than you've been a member here, what does that mean?

I tried a new technique, it caused grey mold. I came to warn others, and was labeled a liar and failure.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

wow i am sorry to hear that

you must really suck at growing ( no offence )


i 've been growing indoor for just over a year, i tried this method the first time and failed, but i didnt come to this thread all crying like you did hehhe, instead i tried again and again, i finally found out that you have to learn your strains before you mess with them... so once i got it right i came to this thread and warn people that they should learn their strains before messing with it

i learned a lot of this thread and i feel it should be right for other to do so as well...

if you got nothing good to say, get the hell out, i am doing a side by side for this thread but do you think it could be done in a week ???

jezz...

 

[huntingbb]

Okay, no side by side.

How about a list of strains this is good for?

A list it is bad for?

Oh yea, some phenos it works, some it doesn't. A lot of help that is.

I've been growing longer than you've been a member here, what does that mean?

I tried a new technique, it caused grey mold. I came to warn others, and was labeled a liar and failure.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

LOL TOL - dude youve just started talking sense, i see you took your guard down a few pages back, cool down brother... ☺
I did suggest a list of strains....

I have been growing longer then I have been here too.

Really how do you know that this technique caused it?

Usually is not a result of pruning, but of bad growing conditions.

heh - sure, but when pulling the fan leaves if one leaves the stem and does not keep up on it there's potential for mold/rot..

I have already stated that for me in Veg, my Sour Bubble did not like it at all. Won't do it again in Veg. All of my Sativas love it. Grapefruit, Space Dawg, Querkle and Galadriel all respond well.

My guess is Indica plants do not like it in Veg, it stunted the Sour Bubble too much. In Flower I only Defoliate around week 3 and 6. I lightly pluck if needed in between.
I ask how long you have been growing, because if you do not have much experience, you could make newbie errors. So you could be growing less than a year! Not ragging on you, but if that is the case...you have zero credibility. I have been doing this for over a decade, so I have some experience.

I am not calling you a liar, I am sure you got gray mold. I would not blame defoliation for that tho. Nobody else has had troubles with mold, infact it increases airflow and decreases humidity when you defoliate.

Years ago in the same set up, one round I got mold on just 1 Grapefruit Cola. Why? The Cola was the size of a 2L bottle of coke. Huge buds require more airflow. I never defoliated til this year. For all we know your humidity could have been high that round or spiked at night. Lack of airflow and high humidity are the main reasons for mold.

To say defoliation caused the mold is wrong. Possibly that in combination with lack of airflow or high humidity. If your environment is favorable for mold, denser buds will get it first. Sometimes you need to just add a fan.

it might be a part of the cause, as you stated there's not enough information available.

wow i am sorry to hear that

you must really suck at growing ( no offence )


i 've been growing indoor for just over a year, i tried this method the first time and failed, but i didnt come to this thread all crying like you did hehhe, instead i tried again and again, i finally found out that you have to learn your strains before you mess with them... so once i got it right i came to this thread and warn people that they should learn their strains before messing with it

i learned a lot of this thread and i feel it should be right for other to do so as well...

if you got nothing good to say, get the hell out, i am doing a side by side for this thread but do you think it could be done in a week ???

jezz...

Sweet =]

 

[!!!]

K33ftr33z primarily advocated this method for people who want to keep their plants short and stocky rather than tall with space between bud sites. It helps him produce the most bud in 32"x32"x32".

I do defoliate but I was never aggressive enough with it until this grow where my height is limited. If my plants grow above and around the light, my yield will be garbage, and so defoliation is important for me in this situation to obtain higher yields. It's not a magic bullet that will automatically increase your GPW from 0.7 to 2.0.

and you DO have to start in veg.. no question about it. It may help if you start in flower but you're not doing what's being advocated in this thread.

 

[staff11]

heh - sure, but when pulling the fan leaves if one leaves the stem and does not keep up on it there's potential for mold/rot..

Never had issues pulling off a leaves or topping/training. mold/rot is caused by poor growing conditions, not training the plant.

 

[Bob-Hope]

@ staff i think the extra veg is worth it, if you have a, 1 in, 1 out, policy.
when i did mine i had to wait 8 wks before my flower room was empty, so by removing leafs, i could manage the overall growth of the plant, where as if i left it for 8wks it would have been far to big for my needs.

All-so i would try and wait until at least day 18 of 12/12,before removing fans,as i found any earlier can stunt lateral growth.

BoB.

 

[slowandeasy]

@ staff i think the extra veg is worth it, if you have a, 1 in, 1 out, policy.
when i did mine i had to wait 8 wks before my flower room was empty, so by removing leafs, i could manage the overall growth of the plant, where as if i left it for 8wks it would have been far to big for my needs.

All-so i would try and wait until at least day 18 of 12/12,before removing fans,as i found any earlier can stunt lateral growth.

BoB.

I agree 100 percent with BOB. Do not defoliate in Flower until after the stretch...for me day 20-21 is perfect. Defoliating in veg keeps the height down, no need to stress the plant during the first 2 weeks of flower.