What Killed Prop. 19?

[JJScorpio]

"Fuck legalization and taxation! My medical paper works just fine"

It's disheartening when you have possibly a million people with a cert that feel this way....

 

[SCF]

yeah i am angry. im not saying that cannabis is not a medicine im just tired of all the people who would rather hide behind the guise of "medical marijuana" then legalize it for recreational use. when clearly that is the reason why there are so many patients in CA...

is cannabis a medicine? yes.

do people use it for medical purposes? sure.

does the HUGE majority of medical marijuana "patients" make up fake symptoms in order to gain access to mj? definatly.

it is one thing when we had no other options, but to vote against 19 on a "i gots mine" platform just makes me sick.

ive seen REAL patients who TRULY need cannabis to help live a more normal life, but they make up a very very small percentage of the medical system.

i always thought that 215 would have made it easier to legalize but now it seems it is doing just the opposite. if people only want to accept marijuana as a medicine then that means it is too dangerous for normal people to use it and that only patients who are prescribe by doctors should get to use it, rather then viewing it as the safe substance it really is and be available to any adult of age.

then recreational users will be cast in negative light just like all other people who use prescription drugs who dont have a prescription.

ahh yes. This was a frustrating point for me, especially when it first started happening. Seeing all these kids having there " 215".... when ... yeah. i wont go there. But i figured hey, i found peace with it, finding it being semi legal. But then to get the slap in the face like you are saying. Is for sure, one of the biggest disrespects to the founding members of Prop 215. And to all who have fought in sickness and in unhealth!

Amen brotha! just remember with the good always comes the bad.


SCF

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

"Fuck legalization and taxation! My medical paper works just fine"

It's disheartening when you have possibly a million people with a cert that feel this way....

MOST patients dont feel that way. the only people i have met that were against 19 were the growers, dealers and middlemen who are just too pathetic and uneducated to realize that they would have made more money in a legal market where they would have access to a much larger customer base then under a semi-legal system like 215...

 

[JJScorpio]

I've read no less then a half dozen posts just like that one on these forums. I'd have to say based on that there are a lot more.

People have the right to their own opinion and feelings but it would be nice if everyone worried about their fellow smokers safety.... It's going to be hard to pass any Bill, regardless of who writes it, without the votes of ALL smokers and growers......

 

[Fear]

Government control is never better man. Why make it as easy as alcohol to abuse. Easy enough to get a prescription. As for making more money after legalizing mj, I don't think so. My PG&E bill isn't going to go down.

 

[igrowone]

i fear MJ has plateaued in California, there just isn't enough discontent to drive further change<br>
i hope MMJ continues to expand to other states, my hope for the next big step in MJ rights<br>
unless, there happens to be some pain, such as Cooley with his vision of dispensary destruction<br>
that could change the apathetic voter turnout

 

[BigBudBill]

Government control is never better man. Why make it as easy as alcohol to abuse. Easy enough to get a prescription. As for making more money after legalizing mj, I don't think so. My PG&E bill isn't going to go down.

Your handle sums up who you are and what you are all about. Fuck your "Government control" fear BUUUUULLLLSHIT. The Government had nothing to do with 19 except a vested interest in failing. Like you. Greed.


For you:
America, the Greatest Country God ever gave Man, was built on three bedrock principles: Freedom. Liberty. And Fear — that someone might take our Freedom and Liberty. But now, there are dark, optimistic forces trying to take away our Fear — forces with salt and pepper hair and way more Emmys than they need. They want to replace our Fear with reason. But never forget — “Reason” is just one letter away from “Treason.” Coincidence? Reasonable people would say it is, but America can’t afford to take that chance.


http://www.keepfearalive.com/

 

[Smoke Buddy]

The thing is for lots of folks here in cali they already feel legal. Saying they dont want to keep their fellow tokers out of jail is a not the issue because for the vast majority, none of their friends are going to jail... most people dont "know" a commercial, big time illegal grower. They may know alot of small scale growers.. like myself thats all I know I dont know a single person doing get rich style grows. just get by grows is the norm. From growers perspective there was fear from the uncertainty of what will happen to what we already have... people fear the unknown. But really, it wasnt growers that killed 19, it was everyday people fearing stoned workers. The ads against 19 were very very effective for good reaon. The message was scary. Until there is a way to test for being high and not just whether someone got high in the last month, the same argument will be used against legalization anywhere it comes up. Its the number one stumbling block for total legalization in my opinion. But we did try.

peace

 

[Fear]

I was drinking that is why i used the vulgarity. Plus I am an electrician, my language isn't appropriate as is. Legalizing it won't help anyone. You think the jail doors open and all the pot convictions walk out. come on! All of the sudden, when I try to make my smoke and pay a large PG&E bill, pay for expensive nutrients and the oz. sells for $38 bucks for grade A pot. that will blow. If legalized there will still be limitations to how much, where, who, what. As of now I can drop a LB. off at my local club get $3600, and claim it if I choose, which I do. So That 1 lb pays my nutrients, PG&E and any equipment needed lamps etc. and I get the lb. to smoke till next harvest. Counties are already starting to begin to have the owners of the clubs inspect our grows to make sure things or clean and legal. Why add more complications. In order to sell after it's legalized I'll have you come down and put your social security # number down for me and collect my $608 before taxes. That would be like a Mc Donalds pay check after that.

As for my name I use to be a "tagger". I use to tag fear 20 years ago in the bay area. True, it was about running from cops, and other shady things I use to do before I had kids. Now the name Fear is just because I have three daughters. LOL

 

[rives]

The thing is for lots of folks here in cali they already feel legal.

I think that you have gotten to the heart of it here. What these people don't appear to understand is that the quasi-legal state can change abruptly with a minimal change in enforcement personnel (ie - Cooley in, Obama out). Our average voter has a memory shorter than their dick, and deserves the opportunity to wait another 40 years for the next shot at legalization.

 

[true grit]

yeah i am angry. im not saying that cannabis is not a medicine im just tired of all the people who would rather hide behind the guise of "medical marijuana" then legalize it for recreational use. when clearly that is the reason why there are so many patients in CA...

is cannabis a medicine? yes.

do people use it for medical purposes? sure.

does the HUGE majority of medical marijuana "patients" make up fake symptoms in order to gain access to mj? definatly.

it is one thing when we had no other options, but to vote against 19 on a "i gots mine" platform just makes me sick.

ive seen REAL patients who TRULY need cannabis to help live a more normal life, but they make up a very very small percentage of the medical system.

i always thought that 215 would have made it easier to legalize but now it seems it is doing just the opposite. if people only want to accept marijuana as a medicine then that means it is too dangerous for normal people to use it and that only patients who are prescribe by doctors should get to use it, rather then viewing it as the safe substance it really is and be available to any adult of age.

then recreational users will be cast in negative light just like all other people who use prescription drugs who dont have a prescription.

No they won't, why don't you Cali folks realize that decrim measure the gov passed does quite a fucking bit for recreational users. Cuz lets be real- what only 60-70k people out of how many millions in Cali got arrested for recreational use/possession last year? Well guess what, now ya just pay it like a parking ticket- those don't hurt much.

And what alternative has there been in the past bro? Either get a med card or go to jail for something you are going to do anyway. Sorry but thats a fucked up system, why shouldn't people take advantage of it? And if the newer legal system is more inhibiting to people than med system being abused, then why push the legal system. People are still going to abuse the Med system for the better numbers and more open rights. Its like the stupid argument if you legalize heroin it will spread- it wont. Legalize pot and people are still going to be abusing the easier and more open system.

Basically you are speaking of idealist goals that are not gonna happen, and I'm with Fear- why does anyone want to give a government that obviously despises what we do (unless they get a better cut) anymore control? Its just plain stupid. After centuries of government fucking up- and you really think a crap organized prop is gonna be any less of a fuck up or detrimental to "recreational users", med users and the market in general?

"Fuck legalization and taxation! My medical paper works just fine"

It's disheartening when you have possibly a million people with a cert that feel this way....

Yeah as opposed to what?? Growing illegally and facing fed/state time? And you think people are gonna stick to bs 25sq ft with legal?

Hey med patients- quit being fucking ELITISTS. Everyone deserves to grow this with the most freedom possible- which certainly wouldn't have happened with Prop19.

MOST patients dont feel that way. the only people i have me that were against 19 were the growers, dealers and middlemen who are just too pathetic and uneducated to realize that they would have made more money in a legal market where they would have access to a much larger customer base then under a semi-legal system like 215...

I am a grower and more a patient than just about most people i meet besides terminal patients and few other seriously debilitative diseases. I am not pathetic, I am not uneducated, and i don't want to have to resort to hand to hand dealing (dangerous to consumers/growers) to expand a customer base if that was my goal. Frankly if you think people who grow aren't already selling to non patients then you must be overlooking the obvious.

Take a look at how CO is ahead of the game on regulating our med market- and it has been nothing but detrimental to patients, growers, caregivers, and businesses alike. In a state where unemployment is an issue- the gov would rather take your money, then shut you down and take away all those jobs created. Make all those patients go to a few places that could fork over the cost, and buy subpar quality medicine in small quantities. Once they took private growers/caregiver's ability to supply disp. out of the picture everyone hurt (not just the CG's losing that outlet like you are assuming). Now similar to Prop 19, they gave cities/counties the right to police- now you are seeing every city/county with anyone against pot outright banning dispensaries and caregiver operations in counties. That now means those patients have to either grow their own(which often isnt realistic), go out city/co, or turn to the black market...which now consists of caregivers that USED to be legal. Now you made two people in the line criminals, so that government officials feel better....and how do you make it worse and eliminate any competition with state regulated business?
You do like Prop 19, and limit the amount anyone can grow. Such as the bs new 12 plants/2 patients per residential zoning guideline they are starting to propose and enact.

How has any of this helped? All i see is a government program that now has an abundance of funding. Over 60% of mmc/dispensarys denied, shutdown or in the process of. Caregivers being effectively pushed out of the system and market and patients suffering.....

-this is what happens when you let government try to organize things they know nothing about, and you have an uneducated public supporting "organization"- because "it's a step forward"...

 

[BigBudBill]

I was drinking that is why i used the vulgarity. Plus I am an electrician, my language isn't appropriate as is. Legalizing it won't help anyone. You think the jail doors open and all the pot convictions walk out. come on! All of the sudden, when I try to make my smoke and pay a large PG&E bill, pay for expensive nutrients and the oz. sells for $38 bucks for grade A pot. that will blow. If legalized there will still be limitations to how much, where, who, what. As of now I can drop a LB. off at my local club get $3600, and claim it if I choose, which I do. So That 1 lb pays my nutrients, PG&E and any equipment needed lamps etc. and I get the lb. to smoke till next harvest. Counties are already starting to begin to have the owners of the clubs inspect our grows to make sure things or clean and legal. Why add more complications. In order to sell after it's legalized I'll have you come down and put your social security # number down for me and collect my $608 before taxes. That would be like a Mc Donalds pay check after that.

As for my name I use to be a "tagger". I use to tag fear 20 years ago in the bay area. True, it was about running from cops, and other shady things I use to do before I had kids. Now the name Fear is just because I have three daughters. LOL

Greed. Are you trying to tell a bunch of growers that 3600/lb is justified? You like people going to jail so you can make 10-20 times profit. PERIOD. Greed. Might as well be a LEO. No different in my eyes.

 

[true grit]

Thats not greed. Its called market rate, everything has it. If people pay club prices, clubs pay market for pounds. Its about supply and demand- not greed. And until it is legal, there is always risk involved- hence the cost. Bitch about the clubs mark up rate that they are making 6-7k a lb before you bitch at the grower.

If Fear was "greedy" all he would have to do is go 1-2 states east or more and add another 1-2k per lb. Now that is drug dealing, middle manning, greed, and taking advantage of the system everyone speaks of. gettin market rate and actually CLAIMING IT ON TAXES is not the same. Thats called a job.

Might as well be LEO? Come off your elitist horse you dick, at least he's being honest and giving a perspective. And no one is going to jail like you are speaking of- you people make it sound like everyone who isn't med is going to jail- BS. I already posted last years arrest figures for possession by non med user's- its in the 60-70k range and those people only had to pay misdemeanor charges/appearance/fines. If they recieved more, then they were doing more than they should have- which wouldnt be covered under Prop19 either.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Thats not greed. Its called market rate, everything has it. If people pay club prices, clubs pay market for pounds. Its about supply and demand- not greed. And until it is legal, there is always risk involved- hence the cost. Bitch about the clubs mark up rate that they are making 6-7k a lb before you bitch at the grower.

If Fear was "greedy" all he would have to do is go 1-2 states east or more and add another 1-2k per lb. Now that is drug dealing, middle manning, greed, and taking advantage of the system everyone speaks of. gettin market rate and actually CLAIMING IT ON TAXES is not the same. Thats called a job.

Might as well be LEO? Come off your elitist horse you dick, at least he's being honest and giving a perspective. And no one is going to jail like you are speaking of- you people make it sound like everyone who isn't med is going to jail- BS. I already posted last years arrest figures for possession by non med user's- its in the 60-70k range and those people only had to pay misdemeanor charges/appearance/fines. If they recieved more, then they were doing more than they should have- which wouldnt be covered under Prop19 either.

1) how can you bitch at dispensaries who make 6-7k a lb when growers like fear want 3600/ lb. That's barely a 100% markup to cover the immense amount of overhead.

2) why should anyone have to get misdemeanor charges and a record so that growers don't have to pay taxes? your never going to win over anyone with that argument.

@fear. $36/oz? Get real. That's like saying all champagne would cost .75 cents a bottle. Mexican brick isn't even that cheap and it comes over the border in 20,000-100,000 lbs at a time

 

[JJScorpio]

I was drinking that is why i used the vulgarity. Plus I am an electrician, my language isn't appropriate as is. Legalizing it won't help anyone. You think the jail doors open and all the pot convictions walk out. come on! All of the sudden, when I try to make my smoke and pay a large PG&E bill, pay for expensive nutrients and the oz. sells for $38 bucks for grade A pot. that will blow. If legalized there will still be limitations to how much, where, who, what. As of now I can drop a LB. off at my local club get $3600, and claim it if I choose, which I do. So That 1 lb pays my nutrients, PG&E and any equipment needed lamps etc. and I get the lb. to smoke till next harvest. Counties are already starting to begin to have the owners of the clubs inspect our grows to make sure things or clean and legal. Why add more complications. In order to sell after it's legalized I'll have you come down and put your social security # number down for me and collect my $608 before taxes. That would be like a Mc Donalds pay check after that.

As for my name I use to be a "tagger". I use to tag fear 20 years ago in the bay area. True, it was about running from cops, and other shady things I use to do before I had kids. Now the name Fear is just because I have three daughters. LOL

We had this "how much does it cost to grow a pound of Cannabis" argument ages ago....

Like I said, you have the right to do what you like, but pretending people are stupid won't make you many friends here. People go to jail for growing a half dozen plants if they aren't med certified.

What's going to happen when the amount of people growing under 215 doubles? What about when it triples? What do you think is going to happen to the prices then?

 

[krunchbubble]

What's going to happen when the amount of people growing under 215 doubles? What about when it triples? What do you think is going to happen to the prices then?

been happening for the last 2 years when obama gave the go ahead...

t

 

[Fear]

Everything I do is justified in my eyes. Call me greedy then, doesn't hurt my feelings one bit. As for making friends, all the friends I need voted "NO", and don't argue about shit they have no control over. Drone on how it would of helped people. The rich get richer and the poor well you know.

And it already has doubled, trippled, I can get an extended mj license that allows me 99 plants. For one card, add my wife and damn I can grow 198 plants legally. But I grow 12, Guess I am greedy.

 

[true grit]

1) how can you bitch at dispensaries who make 6-7k a lb when growers like fear want 3600/ lb. That's barely a 100% markup to cover the immense amount of overhead.

2) why should anyone have to get misdemeanor charges and a record so that growers don't have to pay taxes? your never going to win over anyone with that argument.

@fear. $36/oz? Get real. That's like saying all champagne would cost .75 cents a bottle. Mexican brick isn't even that cheap and it comes over the border in 20,000-100,000 lbs at a time

1. Because it is the dispensary problem. First of all- name any other legit business in the nation that is able to get pretty much 100% mark up across the board. That is greed, but the public pays so thats just business at that point. Most businesses will be happy to see 25-30% return on investment. At 50% profit, a business is crushing it. And don't let the dispensary people fool you- overhead is not that high to justify taxing, again its just the market people will pay for. Do you even supply clubs or know associated costs? Cuz even with inflated Cali cost of electricity/rent- you can't BS on tremendous overhead. Tired of that excuse, because ive yet to see it validated. And if a club has an associated or onsite grow- that will kill any overhead if done right. But guarantee those club prices stay the same regardless- keep paying and they will keep charging and P's will still go for the same.

2. Thats where you are wrong- the fucking decrim bill was a pure political power play they put it in proponents and opponents faces that Prop19 wasn't needed to save cost anymore. Did you read the decrim measure? Because it plainly states it removed all misdemeanor charges for ANYONE over 21 in Cali in possession of one ounce or less. Again REMOVED CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR MINOR POSSESSION. That eliminates those unnecesarry arrests for possession that are costing the Cali judicial system and keeps people from anything on their record- wheres the confusion?

Does anyone read posts fully?- 60-70k Californians were arrested for simple pot possession last year. Which results in court costs and detrimental charges to their record with misdemeanors....

Now in 2011- that will not happen anymore. You will get a ticket for an ounce or less if you are over 21- thats it.

 

[jtk707]

Prop 19 failed because (atleast in my area sonoma county california) medicinal users and club owners and co ops are against it . Every other stop sign in my county had a 19 sticker on it funded by a local medical maryjane group . In short it failed because not enough people voted for it and not many people wanted it passed . Just one mans opinion

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

1. Because it is the dispensary problem. First of all- name any other legit business in the nation that is able to get pretty much 100% mark up across the board. That is greed, but the public pays so thats just business at that point. Most businesses will be happy to see 25-30% return on investment. At 50% profit, a business is crushing it.

and this coming from someone who has never ran a business, much less a prominent dispensary?