New part-time thread.

[GMT]

Hello all,
Welcome to my new thread. Within the next month my Rhinos will be harvested (see their test grow here.....) I'll edit a link in there at some point.
Anyway the reason for this thread is so that I have a place to post a couple of pics of things developing in my garden. So I'll start off with this:
[PIC REMOVED]
A quad sister plant from the offtopicus I grew in my firt thread. Details of parentage etc can be found in that one if your really interested, but this thread will be picture driven, so you can stop reading from here on in and just watch the show if you want.
There will only be (Still reading?) this plant, the Tri-H (see earlier comment about parentages) cutting, and what ever they are mated with, (if it ever happens, these girls are starting to give up hope, and I'm worried they'll start to let themselves go a bit).
Anyway it may be a while between updates, or maybe it wont be.

 

[GMT]

And here is the revegged cutting from my tri H plant.

 

[GMT]

Now a trio of tris. All H from seed.

 

[GMT]

A closer look at the quad

All attempts to clone the central cola have failed. I tried normal techniques, honey and I even made a coca clona humidity tent for her. Fortunately a side branch did clone, so although I dont have the trait cloned, I do have some genes safe in case I dont get a male in the next month, as I'm now flowering her.

 

[Guest]

Hey GMT-

Sorry to hear that you didn't successfully get her top to clone. At least with the side branch you have the genes for future work.

My tri is doing well - there's a pic of her as of 9/12 in my grow thread (link in my sig block). I've noticed that all the side branches are normal bi's, only the top is tri. I remember you mentioning that your plant was the same, which is why you were trying to clone the top. Is that normal?

 

[GMT]

Hi Indigo, in the end, the only cut to take was a small side shoot that I tore rather than snipped from the mother. A small slither of stem bark came off with the side shoot and a few roots appeared on that while it was in the coca~clona with the central stem which had a water/honey coating on it and another side shoot covered in 100% honey. Attempts to clone it outside a humidity dome all failed.
Hi Ambre, yeah that's the theory I'm going with too, but it's still a pisser. I don't know much for sure about the genetic stability of clones, which is why given the choice, I like to take parts of the plant which exhibits the trait that I want to breed for. With my limited experience of tri's, I have noticed that a true tri (tri from birth) will put out side branches that are at first, bifoliar. Some of these can turn tri (normally those with the best light exposure), however they need to be fairly well developed to do so. Some siblings not initially tri, can become tri in the central cola or can put out a side branch that is trifoliar. In that case the trait is normally clear from the start. The quad above was bi initially, but one of the side shoots was a tri, so I topped the plant to encourage that shoot to take over. The tri developed into a quad and earned its place in the garden. Different mothers but the same father. The tri genes come from a grandmother on both mother's sides, it's mother, and it's mother which was the same plant back crossed and it's grandmother (although that was a tri side shoot rather than a true tri) I think off the top of my head. Neither of the mothers were tris I dont think, although off hand I cant really remember all of the gene lines.
On the other hand, if you take another look, one of the tris I topped. The reason for that is for some reason it turned bifoliar on the next node. Now when it was first born, I pulled off one of its 3 leaves thinking it was parrt of the rubbish in the shell and it all came away together. I only noticed when later checking it. At the next node it was kind of 2+1 rather than 3 leaves. the 3rd was almost an afterthought on the plant's part. At the budding points at the nodes I noticed that only 2 of the 3 leaves seemed to have any little growing points there. I topped the plant hoping that this specimin may have decided to go male on me and to see what type of branches it would develop. Now it does appear to have 3 growing points but 1 producing large leaves and 2 separate ones coming from the opposite side. The 3rd leaf seems free of new growing points. If that's not male it just gets binned. The other 2 new tris are also a little different from each other. There is one that is just a perfect 120 degree tri, which I am assuming to be female and one that is like one side of a bi split to make the tri. Again the second set are growing in a 2 + 1 way which if tris can be male, I am hoping to be a signal. The first tri from this generation was of the 120 type and is still growing in a revegged clone form. So now I have 4 separate tris from seed all 100% related, even though one of them seemed to revert to standard. If one of them is a male he can pollinate the females giving a diverse gene pool from which to breed new healthy tris. If they are all girls, then a related male (I kept a 2 leaf plant also in the hopes of) can be used, and the off spring from one plant can then be crossed to a cutting from another, and so adding new tri genes to each line. Failing that I'll cross one of their ancesters back into the line and then follow the above process with those seeds, but that would be a pitty to water the genes down further at this point, and besides that plant may be female too at which point I'll really be stumped.

 

[immortal]

INteresting GMT very interesting

 

[GMT]

Here's how the little ones are doing

 

[Harry Gypsna]

Hi GMT.... Hows u mate....
I would have thought that by cloning the plant, you clone the trait as the top part has the same DNA as all the rest??? not sure though not sure who to ask either LOL.... Either way you are running a "Freak Show" (Not meant at all in a derogatory way-just in reference to all the Trifoliates) over there aintcha.......trhis is gonna be one to keep an eye on....I wish mine had not been so fussy and sick, but there you go.
All the best with these mate,
Be lucky now,
Harry

 

[GMT]

Well yes and no.
First off before I get carried away with this, Hi Harry.
I've been staying up late to watch the open university programs on the way genes work. Really interesting and solved a few problems for me too. It seems that life is more random than we seem to think. DNA is contantly re-writing it self, in the form of genes. And each gene does more than one job. For intstance, the same gene in people is responsible for both the testosterone levels and the relative lengths of our fingers. There are several points at which these re-writes occur, but all at the points that new cells are generated. Aging and growing being small re-writes and breeding being a re-write and chaotic re-jumble of a random selection of both parents genes and DNA. During these re-writes, parts of the DNA chains contained within the genes are reversed/repeated/halved. Its is these re-writes that cause the subtle differences between the leaves and stems and everything else.
While I do get nice healthy stable tri's, I also get tris that turn into bis and quads, altough less frequently. To show this in all Its glory, I'll post another mutant up tonight to show it more clearly. It seems that I have a line that is playing with its gene that controls the number of leaves per node. But by playing with that gene, means that as it grows, not all of the plant does exhibit the same trait. By breeding from a part of the plant that does not exhibit the trait, I am nnot sure if the info passed on by the bud sites in that area will contain the tri info or diff info. Therefore I like to use the parts of the plant that are most closely resembling what I want. So branches started at tri nodes I'll accept, but the sites on the stem at these junctions or the central cola of a tri are my favoured breeding seeds. It also explains why I'm happiest taking the central cola rather than branches as clones and why branches of clones tend to start out bi (as a subltle gene re-write occurs at these points, and continues to occur, which explains why the tri trait can re-emerge later in the branch). Hopefully the genes will settle down a little once they have a few more tri ancestors on their liniage, but for now they still like to play with that gene, some plants more than others, so I'm selecting tris that stay tris, and trying to clone tri traits from tris when, as for so long, no males are anywhere to be found. It doesn't help the genes to settle down when I have to keep breeding the tri females with bi males either. Oh well, at least its easier than selecting for cured taste, as I can see what I'm looking for while they are still growing. Goodness knows what the final plant will taste like. But with the genes in there at the mo, I'll be a heavy smoke.

 

[GMT]

Here's the photo I'm talking about,


Now what is that going to grow up to be? I don't know, but it's fun to watch.
The point is you can see the way in which the gene mutations are affecting the number and way in which the leaves are generated at the nodes. It seems evolution is'nt a gradual process but at certain points many variations are created, and then those that survive get stabalised and those that dont, don't and die out. The original line in nature may be the strongest, or one of the new variations, if they are in competition, only one type will survive. I think I'm starting to gain a little insight into this evolution mallarky. Such a well designed system of improvement lol.

The oldest sister of these plants, is the one that Pack claimed as his god-daugter, allbeit now a second generation clone that's been re-vegged, had it's central cola taken as a clone and then the bush thinned out a bit to prevent waste at the bottom.


No big ass colas to go moldy or suffer mildew this grow.

 

[GMT]

Hi Indigo,
I'm glad your interested in this. Although I dread Qs like that one. To tell you an exact account of this would take me checking files on a couple of different comps, and searching my own posts on here. It's something I need to do but I dont like the whole thing being in one place. Off the top of my head none. These are, in a round about way, F1s. Saying that doesn't give the true picture though. The tri I grew earlier this year, is still going in the above cut, and is a sister plant to the tri's and other assorted mutants we may see in this thread. Their grandmother was a tri, but their mom wasn't. Their great grandmother was a tri, and her mother was a tri branch on a bi plant.
So in a way 4th teir tris, I guess.
How this develops from here will be determined more by chance than design. I'm hoping for a tri male at some point, as I really think that will help this to stabalise. But for reasons we've discussed, it may be unlikely. It may not be stabalisable, but I did a test on numbers, 10 at a time after I found a tri in the first 4 I planted, and stopped after 2 rounds having found my other 2 tris I'm doing this round, and my erm, not sure what pictured above. So this mutated gene is clearly being passed on, so I'm inbreeding the line now, or making F2s to test the next generation. I should do tests on the previous seeds that produced tris before outcrossing them, to see how common they are in those gens but I don't like having even average numbers of seedlings around the place. I really need to keep numbers low for peace of mind.
Although (and this really isn't an advert) I have thought about sending a couple of packs of the first gen of true tris off to sb to see if anyone else gets any from that gen to see if I'm making it more or less common. But then I can't see them being more frequent in that line than now, and whoever got them probably wouldn't be a member here anyway.
I have another 2 lines of plants I'm more desperate to work with than these to be honest, but these are just so eye catching, and already growing, that I have to do this cross now. I should keep cutts from them and then backcross to diff tris but I'd be doing that until next xmas so at some point I may need to just draw a line under it and say thats as far as I can be arsed to go right now. And then continue from those seeds from there in the future. Or maybe use them in a cross with something.
The trouble is I need to keep changing the plant line I smoke in order for it to work nicely. I find too long with the same plant and getting stoned gets harder. So by xmas I'll be soking tri h, so by march april next year I'll want something else. Fortunately I'm also growing an offtopicus, (my quad), so thats something to look forward to. The quad is actually a second generation tri backcrossed to its grand father, an orange bud cross. (That second gen being an f2 of the first).
At the mo I'm smoking 3 types. A bi example of the first gen tri(D plant) A cross of the quad's sister and a black dom cross(cant remember what I called that), I have a few grams of the E plant from the evolution thread, and I'll shortly be starting my rhino buds.
Dates on pics, yeah I started doing that so I knew when they started flowering, a few weeks later. As far as evidence goes, I think my plants are more incriminating, lol. Oh and full written confessions like this.

 

[GMT]

Progress:
A little one:



The one on the right is a big one of the little one, the one on the left is a different one.

 

[GMT]

 

[Guest]

always so impreesed with the health and vigor of the plants in your pics, they are obviously very happy, you have your system dialed in very nicely. That last pic almost looks plastic it's so perfect, not even a burnt leaf tip. Very nice.

 

[Guest]

Hey GMT -

You need to stick a link to this thread in your sig block!

Nice pictures. I really like that last one.

I can't stick with a single variety, either, which is why I have more than one strain going now. Unfortunately, it looks like I don't have any female Bogglegum this time, so I'll have to try again.

 

[immortal]

Lookin Good GMT. you are truley the master of the tri's.

 

[Bonzo]

Howdy GMT, lookin' reeeaaaaal nice, just checkin' in.

peace

bonz

 

[GMT]

Hi everyone,
MD, they are very clean living, with no boosters or nutes etc. Just a very decent fresh soil, although I'm restricting how much to see the effects, expect a lot of yellowing at the end.
Ambre, lets hope he's a boy, oooh is he in for a good life of studding.
Immortal, Master of the tris, I like the sound of that. I'm still a couple of generations of inbreeding away from that title I reckon though yet, yet. Well, that is assuming that inbreeding is the way to go. I have a sneaking suspision though that outcrossing may get a better success on this. It's an odd one and goes against what I think I should think, but there ya go. I'll be testing both theories though, so time will tell.
The thing that I have definately found though is that it is a mutation on one gene that in my line at least, is in constant flux. I have found tris that turn into bis, and bis that turn into tris. Tris and bis that put out tri and bi branches, and even bis that turn tri and then quad. Sisters will be bis and tris and switch, the only constant so far is that boys are always bis, which just shows that even in plants, girls reserve the right to change their minds Hopefully that will change with one of my tris becoming male, fingers crossed.
Bonzo, glad to see you joing us mate, make yourself comfy.

 

[GMT]

Lol, scratch that constant. I think at least 2 of my latest tris are boys. I have taken the head from the chosen one to clone and will continue to flower/sex the body. I have a 3rd gen tri clone in flower at the mo (one on the right in pic), so a late scattering of pollen will be in order for her in 3 weeks, and then wait for the seeds to ripen. So that's gonna get a very long flowering compared to what it usually needs. I also have a clone of that going just incase i'm too late this cycle. It's time to find out if tri x tri = all tri.
How stable do you think a strain has to be before it's considered to be what it claims to be. I mean I hear other people talking about the pheno to look out for in strains. How often do these phenos have to appear for it to be considered acceptable?