3rd set of leafs and all TINY, EXPERT growers advice needed

[el dub]

With the soil being so hot, the containers are too deep, imo. Those tap roots can't develop properly to take advantage of the depth and the deep watering isn't helping the stunted root system, rather it takes longer for that moisture to evap.

But we agree that there are signs of hot soil, no?

lw

 

[Aeronoob]

yea, Im using diferent soil this time. Its gotta be the soil. So, My main question is....can a hot soil mix make plants small like this but seem perfectly healthy? their working on their 4th node. The cotyledons are still green.......I thought a hot soil mix would burn a plant and show sigsn of too hot of a mix, but with perfect green leafs, Im dumbfounded as to why the root development is so shitty and why their growing more nods but leafs are not "expanding" and getting bigger.....

 

[el dub]

Too much water.

lw

 

[stihgnobevoli]

like said before looks like overwater, but i dont think the soil is too hot or else you would have burned off the tips. what are your temps? looks like cold roots to me. if its not overwater.

 

[CFL_Grow]

Yes i have not seen temps mentioned. I am not an expert but the container size is perfectly fine to start in. The soil most likely is OK too as they are nice and green, just severly stunted from most likely overwatering.

If this is a new soil mix it will hold water differently.

 

[Aeronoob]

This is jungle growth organic soil. It is leaving a brow color inside my cups like coffe will stain a coffe cup if left in it too long. IT is also turning the perlite pebble medium brown on the tops of visible perlite pieces.... I got a bag of mirical grow soil with water absorbing stuff.its very very fluffy. It is suppose to protect over and underwater as these crystalls absobe water and relase it so the roots don't sit in it...? I think.. also its got perlite and coir fiber and sphagum moss.... the NPK value is like .21-.07-.12 or something like that, so it seems like a really low rating so as to not burn seedlings. By the way I got my greenhouse femal seeds in, train wreck, chruch, el nino, lemon skunk and cheese. so Ill see how they like the mirical grow soil. Also I got 10 free sam skunkman origional haze x skunk #1 Im gonna save cus if the mirical grow sutff dosent pan out, then something else is worng and I don't want to ruin all the good seeds. for now tho the GH seeds all went into the mirical grow stuff. Its what Ive always used before so I hope it solves my problem. I know mirical grow products are like a sin here and i wanted to go all organic from the start but some stuff just seems to work better for some people. LEtting them develop in the soil and then transfer to a organic soil wilol be fine as they will outgrow the MG fertalizers and grow into the new organic mix later on.

 

[ibjamming]

They look too wet and/or pH is fucked up. How close is your light? Maybe move it closer?

It sometimes appears that you're arguing with people who are here trying to help. Remember...YOU are the one having problems...not them. They're doing their best under the circumstances...they ONLY know what you tell them and what is shown in your pictures.

My seedlings USED to look like yours...now they look like this. What changed? pH and watering...pH was WAY too high and I drowned the bitches. I figured out MY problems and now you have to figure out yours.

One week since planting the seed...

Seedlings at 10 days...

3 weeks...

And a month...

Listen to those who have been there already and have figured it out. It's easy to grow good plants IF you get the conditions right. You obviously don't have them all right.

Can you get a mentor? Someone close who can help you get started? Some things are hard to "learn" from reading...growing is one of them. It takes experience...personal experience.

I'm not slamming you, my intention is simply to get you to listen to those who have already figured it out. Stop "reinventing" the wheel...you're thinking too much...others have already done the thinking...copy them.

Go to the "grow diary" section and find a grow in similar conditions and copy it.

BTW...before popping those expensive seeds...I'd try my hand with some bag seed or those freebies if you can't get free seeds to practice with. That's how I did it...experimentation... I used to lose 1/2 my seedlings...small, yellow leaves, all curled up...like yours and some MUCH worse. I read, learned, and practiced, now seedlings are easy as pie!

Goos luck...you'll get it.

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Fella,
I just thought id mention that really Bad Reports have came in about the moisture controll MG compost, its been reported as a "Dont Use", could be part of your problem. I havent a link as i'll never use anyway, but i think a search on Moisture control MG growing MJ is in order.
Light waterings, every couple of days or as req will help, use the pick up the pot tecnique to check the weight, dry & wet weights to give you an irrigation gauge. G'Luck!

Change your soil dude! J.A Bowers Multi Purp & Tomatoe specific is good(UK), just mix in 30% perlite.

 

[ddrew]

My quick thoughts
Cup size is fine
MG moisture control soil is crap

 

[HydroJen]

Soilmix looks too hot, all the plants look like they don't want to send roots down into it. They don't look 'heathy' to me, they look like (1) there's not enough light, (2) the soilmix is too hot, and (3) the cups are too big, encouraging both under and overwatering. This last point is most important. Air circulates so much better to the roots in small pots that they are almost impossible to overwater. 9oz solo cups, or preferably those little pony packs that six tomatoes come in. Seedlings in (proper sized) small containers should never be allowed to dry out between waterings, that's for established plants in big pots. If you pop those out of their pots, you'll see that they have very little root growth and can be easily transplanted into a smaller pot. They'll take off growing at normal speed even if you keep the (hot) mix they're in now. It will be tolerated OK as they get bigger.

Yes and yes, but if the plants were healthy they would be big enough for those cups by now.
Also a higher temp may help...

 

[Scrogerman]

more intense light enables the plant to cope with hotter mixes higher EC's, but that aint gonna be good for seeedlings & wont encourage rooting, lowering light intensity encourages rooting. imo your pot size is just fine. its the moisture control rubbish thats messing things up!

 

[Aeronoob]

no, I used jungle growth on the others. I jsut started using moisture controll last night.

 

[CheeseBerryHaze]

Its mostlikely down to your growing medium, is there adequate air circulation for the roots? i had the same problem with mine but it turned out my pots were holding them back, and my pots were the size of yours, have a look in my album. Geneticts could also be a factor.

 

[Aeronoob]

Im hoping and guessing its the jungle growth only because its staining my cups this brown like color so Im guessing its WAY to rich... The mirical grow moisture control will have to work for now. I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing with people on here, just frustrated at my problem. I just usualy poped beans In some soil, waterd with tap water and whala under my CFl. Now all of a sudden its like some one threw a brick in my glass house. I feel like a complete fuckign noob not being able to get a seedling going all of a sudden...

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i dont recommend using MG to start seedlings. its too hot and after a week or 2 your seedlings will look like the pictures you posted earlier. if you can get a seedling mix or just plain soil mix with no nutes in it.


this look familiar? this is one of my early grows when i used to use MG soil and couldnt figure out why my plants wouldnt grow and the leaves always looked down.

 

[Aeronoob]

but the npk was .21.07.11 it should be perfect to start seeds in tho. thanks for the pic

 

[OldLurker]

move lights lower if the light bulbs have been used awhile the lumen output is rly cut down.
or just buy some good seeds and try again.
buy SUPER EASY seeds to grow tho nothing to complicated.

also if the roots are sitting in to wet of soil this will happen. i always keep my soil dry so the roots expand more looking for water.

 

[MHHSP]

The soil will stay to wet during seedling stage growth with polymer in the soil, use a different mix.

 

[Strainhunter]

no, I used jungle growth on the others.

.......

That's it!

Jungle Growth has shredded chicken feathers in it (long term release fert) and that's what is causing your problems.

+ potential overwatering.

 

[Aeronoob]

really? have others or yoursellf had this problem? I was thinking this shit is probably rich but I didn't know. i Know it has neem cake in it also. member stated this on another forum "I just wanted to give you guys a warning on that Jungle Growth soil at Lowes. It has great ingredients but is does not grow plants worth a crap. I tried some about a 1-1/2 years ago and all my plants wouldnt grow . They were all stunted,yellow,purple stems just all FUBAR'ed. I thought it was my screw up until I checked the soil ph and runoff. I was getting huge variations in soil ph from 5.3-7.0 +. Mo matter what I did as far as ph,nutes etc. it only made things worse. I transplanted everything into FF OF and within 10 days everything was back on track and healthy. They told me they stopped carring it for a while becaus of complaints.

A few moths ago they started carrying it again. It was repackaged with fancy artwork on the bags etc. So my dumbass got a few bags. I put it ouside and used it for my super soil base. I let it cure for a few weeks checking ph and adding lime to get ph to about 6.7. It was approx. 5.5 out of the bag. So I repotted everything about 25 plants and some new seelings. Well, it only took about 2 weeks and everthing started yellowing, burning, etc. the same as be4. It hosed up everything again. So I got some roots organic and transplanted everthing and within about 10 days everything came right back nice and healthy. They are all looking great now and I'm about rady to flip. This really set me back a month or so.

Just a heads up if anyone is considering using this stuff."