Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[statusquo]

If we use the computer to describe the human being, and how he
perceives life we would look at it like this:

1) what we see on the monitor is our perceptions

2) the hardware is the brain

3) the software is the mind



Now, this is all fine and dandy, but there is one element that is left
out, and that doesn't get really mentioned, but without which the
computer couldn't run. Not from the first moment when you get it
in your possession, not now, not tomorrow...never. What is this?

...Electricity, energy! This is what I'm pointing to, the thing that
makes us run, the invisible force that is the foundation, the true
nature of who we are.

...so if we are like computers, where is this energy that is running
us coming from? The answer is we don't really know, we don't think
deeply about this at all.

The mind and the brain are essentially the same thing - to say otherwise would suggest a dualist position and I'm sure you don't defend this position. The brain is the hardware but it is our genes and culture that are our software. And just like in a computer RAM is externalized in say, a Video Card, one can look at our computer technology as externalization of internal processing. I.E. mental prosthetics.

Anyways, the energy comes from the food we eat, does it not? Once sensory input data is received that initiates an electrical signal that travels to the brain via neurons. Then the brain processes this information and then sends the orders to the appropriate places, also via neurons. If it perceives a threat, it sends a signal to motor neurons in the legs to run etc etc.

 

[southflorida]

The mind and the brain are essentially the same thing - to say otherwise would suggest a dualist position and I'm sure you don't defend this position. The brain is the hardware but it is our genes and culture that are our software. And just like in a computer RAM is externalized in say, a Video Card, one can look at our computer technology as externalization of internal processing. I.E. mental prosthetics.

Anyways, the energy comes from the food we eat, does it not? Once sensory input data is received that initiates an electrical signal that travels to the brain via neurons. Then the brain processes this information and then sends the orders to the appropriate places, also via neurons. If it perceives a threat, it sends a signal to motor neurons in the legs to run etc etc.

i see everything in life as one nondual experience, and by this I do
really mean everything.

in the end there probably is no good example that can explain what
I mean by being/consciousness, and how this nothing/infinity can
be directly experienced by someone else.

this "thing" found me itself, I wasn't really looking for it, and it is not
some magical thing or secret or something that makes me special
or different from everyone else.

actually a part of me wishes this insight never experienced by me
and that I continued to look at life and myself the way I always
looked at life and myself, which is basically the way society/culture
programmed me to look at it.

but now that it happened, I guess I want to hear that someone else
has also experienced this. Maybe this won't happen, and it seems
this is a solo-thing. Whatever this experience has been it is my own
and it is up to me to simply live with.

in the end, I don't really know what it is, I just know it's real for me,
and that these realizations and experiences and insights are almost
impossible to explain to other people. The words I write are my
interpretation of this experience, and are not the experience itself,
and this is why I will probably just accept that it's up to me to
figure out what it all meant...or if it meant anything at all, in the
first place.

I am just aware that everything "simply happens" and that from my
perspective it is all ONE nondual present moment experience.

...and even though it seems as if I can choose to do something or
not do something, in the end there is no choice, because there is
no real me to make this choice.

...being/consciousness is manifesting this one nondual experience
and it is observing its manifestations through our perceptions.

...so I guess in the end, all of us humans, and everything else there
is in the Universe are this one being/consciousness.

...but, this is just my perspective, and obviously that is all it is.

 

[draco]

Well I wouldn't try to compare the brain/human to a computer/operator nor is that what I did. I merely made the analogy of a brain being like a cpu is to the whole computer, You can have all the memory, drive space, bells and whistles, etc but without a cpu the computer is not going to function. Just as a person can not function without a brain.

You talk of trying to control the brain like it's sperate from you when it is not, it is a part of who you are and without it you wouldn't be you you would be a pile of lifeless flesh and bone So to talk of it as something seperate from yourself that can be controlled is silly. How can you control your brain when it's your brain that would have to exert that control since the desire to control is an impulse that comes from your brain?

but... do you believe everything you think? if so, not much sense in talking w/you cause i know peeps like that...

if you don't believe everything you think, WHO is not believing the thought, hmmm?

it's the 'silent watcher' dude!! the one who monitors thoughts and ultimately evaluates them from prison. you know... the one who decides which 'voices ' to listen to...

the brain dies with the body. so long brain that we love so much! thanks for keeping me confused for 70 years!

sorry. i cannot deify the brain... there are higher functions of the soul than thinking. but as long as we are happy with our limits, there's no reason to change them.

 

[HempKat]

I agree that what I'm trying to get across, is very difficult to explain.
But, yesterday I was contemplating this and here is what came
into my mind.

If we use the computer to describe the human being, and how he
perceives life we would look at it like this:

1) what we see on the monitor is our perceptions

2) the hardware is the brain

3) the software is the mind

so when we are born, we are slowly loaded with software programming,
mostly through society/culture, and our empty hardware gets all
nicely filled up with all these "programs" and at some point we
start to run our own lives using the hardware, software, and
observing our reality on the monitor...right?

Okay now there's part of the problem, when you present your ideas you tend to talk about it as if certain things are established facts that everyone agrees on and it's not. It's just your perception of things, your own particular distinctions. This is why it's difficult to put into words because each of us make our own unique distinctions and so the words you would use likely seem nonsensical to others even though it makes perfect sense to you.. Like your point about electricity. I would say electricity is more comparable to blood in humans. Just like a computer wouldn't function without electricity a human body without blood would fail to function.

I guess what it comes down to for me is this, why do people have to put so much time and energy into trying to get in touch with something greater then themselves? Like the people that try to prove the existence of God or try to convince themselves they interact with God on a personal level. If there is a God and he is what we've come to believe he is and that he has a plan for us in the afterlife, then when we die all will be revealed. If not then any energy spent trying to prove it is just a colossal waste of time. What we should be doing is just living our lives. If there is a god it's in living our lives that we reveal to him who we truely are deep down on a spiritual level and this is what we've come to believe will determine how God will judge us and decide our eternal fate.

Here's the bottomline for me on this, if everything we think is a distinction and distinctions are a survival mechanism of the self mind then everything you've come up with on this theory is also a distinction of your self mind and yet you've come to believe you should reject the distinctions of the self mind so as to become more in touch with this force or energy that is the nothing/infinity you talk about. So to do what you're attempting to do would require you to disregard your own theory as a dinstinction your self mind made to help it survive, so that you can see the true nature of things rather then the false one caused by your distinction.

 

[statusquo]

in the end there probably is no good example that can explain what
I mean by being/consciousness, and how this nothing/infinity can
be directly experienced by someone else.

but now that it happened, I guess I want to hear that someone else
has also experienced this. Maybe this won't happen, and it seems
this is a solo-thing. Whatever this experience has been it is my own
and it is up to me to simply live with.

I am just aware that everything "simply happens" and that from my
perspective it is all ONE nondual present moment experience.

...and even though it seems as if I can choose to do something or
not do something, in the end there is no choice, because there is
no real me to make this choice.

...being/consciousness is manifesting this one nondual experience
and it is observing its manifestations through our perceptions.

...so I guess in the end, all of us humans, and everything else there
is in the Universe are this one being/consciousness.

I agree with pretty much everything I left in my quote of your post; if not fully than pretty much or with contingencies. Also, I said this earlier but I want to make sure you understand, I believed in this same ultimate and absolute nature of reality being infinity before this thread. You actually did a beautiful job of articulating the philosophical relationship between infinity and nothingness and actually helped me to draw upon all my philosophy and science classes to form my own metaphysical 'theory of everything' (very similar to yours) BUT, and most importantly, I was able to adopt this infinity/nothingness view and reconcile it with my epistemological views and other metaphysical views. Basically, you provided me with the stimulation and foundation for an overachring principle to tie together many loose ends/solid arguments that were confusing and pointless when alone but manifest meaning under this overarching theory. Thank you, seriously.

Edit: one of those contingencies is that I don't think we should try and dissolve distinctions. This is not possible given the current state of affairs in the realm of biology, culture and technology. Maybe a few thousand years from now we can all exist in a universal "isness" but until then we are feterred to the ego mind and everything that goes along with it.

 

[HempKat]

but... do you believe everything you think? if so, not much sense in talking w/you cause i know peeps like that...

if you don't believe everything you think, WHO is not believing the thought, hmmm?

it's the 'silent watcher' dude!! the one who monitors thoughts and ultimately evaluates them from prison. you know... the one who decides which 'voices ' to listen to...

the brain dies with the body. so long brain that we love so much! thanks for keeping me confused for 70 years!

sorry. i cannot deify the brain... there are higher functions of the soul than thinking. but as long as we are happy with our limits, there's no reason to change them.

Who said anything about diefying the brain? I certainly didn't. All I essentially said was that it's not something seperate from yourself that you can control because that you, that thing doing the controlling, is the brain.

As for the question "Do you believe everything you think?" That's really an impossible question to answer the way you've asked because like everyone else not all thinking is a matter of drawing a conclusion. Like I sometimes day dream when I'm bored and typically those day dreams are some ideological view of whatever I'm day dreaming about. I do know those are day dreams though and not reality so I would never come to the conclusion "Well I thought it so it must be true." On the other hand sometimes I make a decision about something and like most people that decision is based on past experiences and what those experiences taught me. So in those cases, yes most definately I believe what I'm thinking is true. Then there are times when I'm learning things, thinking is taking place the information presented is evaluated and deemed true or false or unknown based on past experiences as well as how much I trust the person I'm learning from. In that case I'm thinking but the decision of what's true or not is applied to someone else's thought.

 

[southflorida]

Okay now there's part of the problem, when you present your ideas you tend to talk about it as if certain things are established facts that everyone agrees on and it's not. It's just your perception of things, your own particular distinctions. This is why it's difficult to put into words because each of us make our own unique distinctions and so the words you would use likely seem nonsensical to others even though it makes perfect sense to you.. Like your point about electricity. I would say electricity is more comparable to blood in humans. Just like a computer wouldn't function without electricity a human body without blood would fail to function.

I guess what it comes down to for me is this, why do people have to put so much time and energy into trying to get in touch with something greater then themselves? Like the people that try to prove the existence of God or try to convince themselves they interact with God on a personal level. If there is a God and he is what we've come to believe he is and that he has a plan for us in the afterlife, then when we die all will be revealed. If not then any energy spent trying to prove it is just a colossal waste of time. What we should be doing is just living our lives. If there is a god it's in living our lives that we reveal to him who we truely are deep down on a spiritual level and this is what we've come to believe will determine how God will judge us and decide our eternal fate.

Here's the bottomline for me on this, if everything we think is a distinction and distinctions are a survival mechanism of the self mind then everything you've come up with on this theory is also a distinction of your self mind and yet you've come to believe you should reject the distinctions of the self mind so as to become more in touch with this force or energy that is the nothing/infinity you talk about. So to do what you're attempting to do would require you to disregard your own theory as a dinstinction your self mind made to help it survive, so that you can see the true nature of things rather then the false one caused by your distinction.

True, that my interpretation of distinctions is all that I can write
about, so it is purely my perspective. And since it is my perspective
others might not see it that way, since they have their own
perspectives for how stuff happens.

The second part is also true. It is my mind that is making distinctions
that are in the domain of concepts, beliefs, assumptions. And since
this is all I have to work with in this "objective" world, it is this
self-mind that is moving me in the direction of finding what I consider
to be true nature of who and what I am.

...and yes, I have to give up the self-mind that is making the
distinctions I'm writing about in here in order to directly to experience
what I consider to be my true nature, which is being/consciousness.

I want to do this because I want to do this, and for no other reason.
It is to know the truth for the truth itself. What I have directly
experienced so far shows me that I'm heading in the right direction,
but in the end it's not better or worse that whatever anyone else
is doing in their life. It just simply is, and not something that I put
value or worth on.

...everything just "is" -- so in the end, my journey is different in
content but not in principle from other people journies.

...we are all just doing "our thing."

...I'm just trying to share mine, and wondering if there are other
people out there messing around with this topic.

...since you are posting in this thread, it shows that you are at
least "weighing" stuff, otherwise this thread wouldn't interest you
at all. You are contemplating "stuff" and that's all that matters...imo

 

[southflorida]

I agree with pretty much everything I left in my quote of your post; if not fully than pretty much or with contingencies. Also, I said this earlier but I want to make sure you understand, I believed in this same ultimate and absolute nature of reality being infinity before this thread. You actually did a beautiful job of articulating the philosophical relationship between infinity and nothingness and actually helped me to draw upon all my philosophy and science classes to form my own metaphysical 'theory of everything' (very similar to yours) BUT, and most importantly, I was able to adopt this infinity/nothingness view and reconcile it with my epistemological views and other metaphysical views. Basically, you provided me with the stimulation and foundation for an overachring principle to tie together many loose ends/solid arguments that were confusing and pointless when alone but manifest meaning under this overarching theory. Thank you, seriously.

Edit: one of those contingencies is that I don't think we should try and dissolve distinctions. This is not possible given the current state of affairs in the realm of biology, culture and technology. Maybe a few thousand years from now we can all exist in a universal "isness" but until then we are feterred to the ego mind and everything that goes along with it.

Glad that my writings have helped you to tie things together. This is
how life is, a little here, a little there, and eventually, the whole
puzzle starts to come together, and you have a realization/insight.

As far as distinctions, in reality it is not about dissolving them, but
of being aware that we are attached to them and are identified with
them, and this creates the conceptual-self-mind-egoistic structure.

...I want to become un-attached and dis-identified from these
distinctions, and not to see them as distinctions that are a part
of my "self."

From my perspective being/consciousness and self are one and the
same...the false-self, the conceptual-self-mind-egoistic structure
is errected and stands on our attachments to our beliefs and
assumptions, and also to distinctions as they relate to this false-self.

My being/consciousness/genuine-self are what will be left when I'm
done with this (at least that is how I'm planning, obviously I don't
know how it will all turn out) and all the beliefs/assumptions that
I'm currently am attached to and identified with will remain, but
since I will not be attached and identified with them, they will simply
be what they are and as they are...and not a part of my "self."

Until I die, all I have is time, and since I don't know when I will die
I figure I might as well work on this every day. In the end, just like
I wrote to HempKat...this is something that I'm doing on a moment
to moment basis, like some people that have hobbies that they do,
well, this is my hobby...moving toward enlightnment and awakening.

...and if by sharing my journey I can help even one person to notice
a distinction or two, then my time is well spent.

...and if someone can help me notice a distinction or two, the my
time is also well spent. And you, just like everyone else, does help
me make new distinctions, so thanks to you and everyone else that
posts in this thread.

...but, in the end, I am totally aware that personal freedom lies
in eliminating/detaching/dis-identifying from all distinctions, and
from my personal experience this is possible while we are alive.

...I don't know how long it will take, and what it will cost me, but
as long as I'm alive, this is the direction that I will be heading toward,
because directly experiencing my true nature of nothingness/infinity
is what I intend to do. This is not a desire (an image of something
I want in the future, since I don't see a possibility of a future) it is
an intention that is strong and never-ending.

...will keep everyone up to date on the insights/realizations that
I will have, because enlightnment/awakening can happen at any time

 

[draco]

Who said anything about diefying the brain? I certainly didn't. All I essentially said was that it's not something seperate from yourself that you can control because that you, that thing doing the controlling, is the brain..

i keep telling everyone that it's not my fault - my brain made me do it!

how can i be responsible for something that is out of my control?

you got a good instrument there HK. i can tell you use it a lot. but i can also tell you that it is just that - an instrument. i used to think a high IQ was something to be proud of. but in this life no condition goes unmitigated... it can be a great help, but it can keep one in a elaborate box.

i appreciate your considered opinion for sure. thanks.

 

[CARE giver]

Anything is possible in this crazy universe we live in. Anything.

 

[HempKat]

i keep telling everyone that it's not my fault - my brain made me do it!

how can i be responsible for something that is out of my control?

you got a good instrument there HK. i can tell you use it a lot. but i can also tell you that it is just that - an instrument. i used to think a high IQ was something to be proud of. but in this life no condition goes unmitigated... it can be a great help, but it can keep one in a elaborate box.

i appreciate your considered opinion for sure. thanks.

No problem but you seem to be missing my point, your brain isn't out of control, your brain controls everything you do, think and feel. It's even controlling and regulating things without you having to be conscious of it. Here's the really mind bending part though, it's also controlling the notion you have, that the brain is out of your control and/or that you are seperate from it. You are you're brain and vice versa.

The only reason it can't be controlled by you is because it's not something for you to control as if it was detached and seperate from you. That doesn't make it something out of your control though, that absolves you of responsibility for what you think and do with your brain. You're not some hapless entity outside of your brain that is at the mercy of it's whims. Even if you have a chemical imbalance that causes your brain to function differently then you want it to you're not out of control because there are ways to treat that and restore the chemical balance thru diet, exercise and medicine. Perhaps if you had some physical deformity of the brain one might argue you have no control then but if that were the case you probably wouldn't be here because you wouldn't be able to control your brain to use a computer and log in here to express your thoughts.

 

[HempKat]

...since you are posting in this thread, it shows that you are at
least "weighing" stuff, otherwise this thread wouldn't interest you
at all. You are contemplating "stuff" and that's all that matters...imo

There you go again making another distinction that's not true. all my posting here proves is I enjoy debating the topic with you. Sure I'm contemplating stuff but that's no revelation, we all contemplate stuff, all the time, where do you think all those distinctions come from? Clearly if you read thru the positions I've taken I'm not in agreement and have spent most of my contemplating on trying to get you to see things differently.

Sure it's your life and if this is to be your life's pursuit it's not really much different then alot of people's pursuits. The way I see it though, you're trying to paddle against the current upstream by seeking to train your mind to not do what it was supposed to do. Your mind doesn't work the way it does to fool you into anything it does what it does to give you the best possible chance to interact constructively with your environment. If working against that though, floats your boat so be it, I'll not try to convince you to do otherwise anymore.

 

[draco]

No problem but you seem to be missing my point, your brain isn't out of control, your brain controls everything you do, think and feel. It's even controlling and regulating things without you having to be conscious of it. Here's the really mind bending part though, it's also controlling the notion you have, that the brain is out of your control and/or that you are seperate from it. You are you're brain and vice versa.

The only reason it can't be controlled by you is because it's not something for you to control as if it was detached and seperate from you. That doesn't make it something out of your control though, that absolves you of responsibility for what you think and do with your brain. You're not some hapless entity outside of your brain that is at the mercy of it's whims. Even if you have a chemical imbalance that causes your brain to function differently then you want it to you're not out of control because there are ways to treat that and restore the chemical balance thru diet, exercise and medicine. Perhaps if you had some physical deformity of the brain one might argue you have no control then but if that were the case you probably wouldn't be here because you wouldn't be able to control your brain to use a computer and log in here to express your thoughts.

i can see you are a nuts and bolts kind of guy HK. but i'm not talking about functions of the brain - as interesting as that is...

maybe there is some confusion of terms. it's easier for me to refer to this kind of inquery in terms of the evidence in say, the bagavad gita, the upanishads, the works of Shankara, Nanak, Kabir, or any of the good old sufi writings... are you familar with misticism?

what higher study can one endeavor, but the study of the human mind? there are records of centuries of ardous study and practice of these very questions that we are discussing here. and just like in other records, ya gotta pick through it to find the good shit...
but it's there.

... the idea that at some point in the spiritual journey, the mind is cast off really bothers some people.

 

[HempKat]

i can see you are a nuts and bolts kind of guy HK. but i'm not talking about functions of the brain - as interesting as that is...

maybe there is some confusion of terms. it's easier for me to refer to this kind of inquery in terms of the evidence in say, the bagavad gita, the upanishads, the works of Shankara, Nanak, Kabir, or any of the good old sufi writings... are you familar with misticism?

what higher study can one endeavor, but the study of the human mind? there are records of centuries of ardous study and practice of these very questions that we are discussing here. and just like in other records, ya gotta pick through it to find the good shit...
but it's there.

... the idea that at some point in the spiritual journey, the mind is cast off really bothers some people.

There's no proof that it is though because without the mind there is no awareness. I think the problem is what was being said earlier in the discussion that words are being used improperly. What is shed in the spiritual journey is not the mind, it's the ego. On a true spiritual journey you're opening the mind up to more, not trying to limit it or remove it from the equation.

 

[draco]

There's no proof that it is though because without the mind there is no awareness. I think the problem is what was being said earlier in the discussion that words are being used improperly. What is shed in the spiritual journey is not the mind, it's the ego. On a true spiritual journey you're opening the mind up to more, not trying to limit it or remove it from the equation.

but you said that you did not diefy the mind?

edit: bad joke! sorry...

 

[HempKat]

but you said that you did not diefy the mind?

edit: bad joke! sorry...

Ummm okay, I guess so, because I don't get it.

 

[draco]

There's no proof that it is though because without the mind there is no awareness. I think the problem is what was being said earlier in the discussion that words are being used improperly. What is shed in the spiritual journey is not the mind, it's the ego. On a true spiritual journey you're opening the mind up to more, not trying to limit it or remove it from the equation.

but there is awareness above the mind. it is referred to in many old texts and confirmed by modern adepts like Paramahansa Yogananda. ( and no, I am not a disciple) it happens to regular people too... sometimes for no apparent reason...There are several definitions of "ego". not sure which one you refer to... but i gotta go now!! right now so

later

 

[Blueshark]

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The body resides in the hear and now, while the mind is wherever it wants to be in an instant. The mind is the only thing I know of in nature that is faster than the speed of light. As soon as the minds thinks of someplace, it is there instantly. The mind is capable of time travel as well. Remember what happened yesterday/last year? It travels to that time instantly in the past. Your mind thinks of knocking on a door and is there in the future instantly. It takes awhile for the body to cover the same distance to get to that point in the future.

Of course, it could be that I am just ripped on some Sour P and I am currently out of my mind. Which means, of course, that I am not here, but somewhere else. Now I have mastered mental teleportation......... TA DA!!!


https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=23458

 

[coconutree]

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The body resides in the hear and now, while the mind is wherever it wants to be in an instant. The mind is the only thing I know of in nature that is faster than the speed of light. As soon as the minds thinks of someplace, it is there instantly. The mind is capable of time travel as well. Remember what happened yesterday/last year? It travels to that time instantly in the past. Your mind thinks of knocking on a door and is there in the future instantly. It takes awhile for the body to cover the same distance to get to that point in the future.

Of course, it could be that I am just ripped on some Sour P and I am currently out of my mind. Which means, of course, that I am not here, but somewhere else. Now I have mastered mental teleportation......... TA DA!!!


https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=23458

haha i was gonna say you must be stoned but however poetic your synopsis of the mind and time travel thats impossible

when u think of "some place" your not "there" you are seeing a picture in your mind of a past memory

remembering past incidents is ur mind creating a picture due to electrical currents and the messages sent from nerve to nerve

"transporting you there"

 

[Blueshark]

Coconutree, darn it!!! You saw right through my BS synopsis... Glad you enjoyed it, I was trying for a laugh..


https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=23458