It is much different if LEO chooses not to enforce the law, verses not having the law.
The Pendulum Swings Back
- Thread starter Tony Aroma
- Start date
G
Guest 150314
I want to see a quote about the 5x5 restrictions from rob nicholson, how can they restrict you to 5x5 if you have a 25+ plant licence? I am calling BS on that one..
I neither agree nor disagree with the original poster.
I caution anyone from making snap judgments based upon the poll results of last night. The exit polls need to be looked at and analyzed. Polling data before the campaign began also needs to be assessed.
Did opinions change, or are we seeing a difference in voter turnout? If opinions did change, what was the pattern of that change? What, if anything, can we predict about similar changes in the future?
Those conclusions and inferences need careful analysis and a clear-head. They do not benefit from emotional introspection on the morning-after-the-night-before.
The generation gap must be examined and compared to prior experience with marijuana. Some of these inferences must be drawn without direct evidence, while others may be teased out of the demographic data.
The main question that informs future political strategy comes down to this: how many people -- and of what age groups -- voted against Proposition 19 who, nevertheless, had smoked marijuana previously in their life -- even once?
That, in my opinion, is the most important question that needs to be answered in the wake of Prop 19's failure.
That is the question upon which all future political strategy depends. I believe that most of the evidence to answer that question may be inferred, but it is not directly available at this time.
There may be a "Ganja Gap" - and there may not be. Before anybody draws any conclusions, the data has to carefully analyzed.
There are a lot of people hurting today and many more who are quite discouraged and crestfallen. That is entirely understandable.
Before you start throwing in the towel for the next two decades, my advice is this: Stop. Take a deep breath -- a deeper toke -- and chill for a bit please.
This is not the time to make snap judgements or make emotional predictions; indeed, that sort of emotional decision making MAY have been what lead Prop 19 to fail (and it may not be -- jury is still out on the WHY part of how it is that we lost).
Personally, I am not a fan of ANY "Morning After" narrative. I prefer a narrative that is the product of careful reflection and analysis and an introspetion that is both measured and calm.
Defeatism, finger-pointing and resignation assists nothing -- and no one, either.
Time enough for that in the weeks and month ahead. For now, my suggestion is to simply chill for a bit folks.
I caution anyone from making snap judgments based upon the poll results of last night. The exit polls need to be looked at and analyzed. Polling data before the campaign began also needs to be assessed.
Did opinions change, or are we seeing a difference in voter turnout? If opinions did change, what was the pattern of that change? What, if anything, can we predict about similar changes in the future?
Those conclusions and inferences need careful analysis and a clear-head. They do not benefit from emotional introspection on the morning-after-the-night-before.
The generation gap must be examined and compared to prior experience with marijuana. Some of these inferences must be drawn without direct evidence, while others may be teased out of the demographic data.
The main question that informs future political strategy comes down to this: how many people -- and of what age groups -- voted against Proposition 19 who, nevertheless, had smoked marijuana previously in their life -- even once?
That, in my opinion, is the most important question that needs to be answered in the wake of Prop 19's failure.
That is the question upon which all future political strategy depends. I believe that most of the evidence to answer that question may be inferred, but it is not directly available at this time.
There may be a "Ganja Gap" - and there may not be. Before anybody draws any conclusions, the data has to carefully analyzed.
There are a lot of people hurting today and many more who are quite discouraged and crestfallen. That is entirely understandable.
Before you start throwing in the towel for the next two decades, my advice is this: Stop. Take a deep breath -- a deeper toke -- and chill for a bit please.
This is not the time to make snap judgements or make emotional predictions; indeed, that sort of emotional decision making MAY have been what lead Prop 19 to fail (and it may not be -- jury is still out on the WHY part of how it is that we lost).
Personally, I am not a fan of ANY "Morning After" narrative. I prefer a narrative that is the product of careful reflection and analysis and an introspetion that is both measured and calm.
Defeatism, finger-pointing and resignation assists nothing -- and no one, either.
Time enough for that in the weeks and month ahead. For now, my suggestion is to simply chill for a bit folks.
we have a strong prison for profit system that is just getting started here in the USA .Fantastic post.
However, with the current financial situation, which differs dramatically from the one 1980, I'm not sure that enforcement and imprisonment levels will be able to keep up with even the current situation, much less so if they increase penalties while repealing decriminalization and medical programs.
If things turn out how you have laid out, it will be as I always suspected: don't waste your time going to protests and rallies and voting; instead talk back with facts on the ground.
Overgrow those fuckers!!!
They'll never relent, and they'll take back any quarter they give in this war. But they're such lunatics, they've bankrupt themselves.
In other words, we will win, and its coming sooner than you think.
Don't worry, they will have room in jail for all of us.
Z
zen_trikester
Did anyone use Awesome yet? Ahh, OK AWESOME post Tony. Certainly filled with post-19 doom and gloom, but it is all possible. I worry for the momentum of the movement as well.
Jed
Jed
C
CANNATOPIA
Sadly I have to agree. Things are not looking so hot right now.
mr noodles
Member
what are you doing of the phazing out of every mmj grower quote in all canadian media ?
i cant remember where i read it but i think it come from one of the home inspection done last spring by the mmar , i read it !!!!!
its said and i believe it .nicholson is exactly the kind of guy to do that
its because they hate the 1000 w per plant some are doing...they want to limit the space used in order to limit the size of the crop
nicholson is actually doing a killing job over the mmar, they want to abolish it pure and simple and make it so complicated in order to derail it
they want to force all mmar to buy from hell canada and thats why the phazing out of home-growing , they will also use the fire hazard and all
if we dont get rid of harper and coe the mmar will die , anyway you wait more than 5 months now just for a simple application or renewal ...
i even being told by a mmar employé that he is scared for is job ...
and they also want to stop you of having a perpetual license ...
and rob nicholson can do whatever he want to the mmar
i went to hell with the mmar and even got an application rejected because my doctor was disqualified to prescribe , not because i dont qualify...no i have the criteria but i was rejected because of an administrative bureaucratic crap ...it was a 6 months of pure hell .phone call and letter . my specialist have been targeted by is provincial ass because he was signing mmar paper ...
me and 7 patients still struggle to find another doctor to sign mmar paper . i really affected by chronic disease and my budget is the budget of a sick person so...i cant bribe doctor or send my crap in bc
when you have real health issue you dont have that kind of money period .
if you think the conservatives will allow grow op with 25 000 watts for a single patient.....dream on ....plant who crop more than a pound...check your limit of dry possession and it dont match 25 pounds per crop you get from a 1000 w per plant .
plant ## will be revoked in order to prevent the 1000 w per plant , so you want 25 plants ? it will be a sea of green in a 5 x 5
in fact you argument dont hold the road because most people have limited growing space and they ask for a higher # of plant in order to have a sea of green in a small space ...the plant # will be eliminated but restriction on grow space will be brought .
i wont be surprise if they crack down the bc clinics who take file from other province via fax machine ...
just wait
very dark day ahead for canadian med patients if harper win another election .
with bill s-10 med or not , if you do brownies you will get sanction as a drug dealer ....
Thanks.
It's not that I'm giving up. Just trying to be realistic. Remember, four cannabis-related initiatives all failed last night, not just Prop 19. Two years ago, all such initiatives on their respective ballots passed, all with more votes than the president got. We've gone from 100% success to 100% failure. Come on, ARIZONA's medical bill failed after having passed on two previous ballots!!!!! Gimme a break! This is not an isolated incident, it's a trend.
On the other hand, I would be extremely happy to have my predictions NOT pan out. But I won't hold my breath.
CaptainTrips
Active member
How many of the other MMJ inititives passed in a mid term election? Thats a serious question btw, i'd like to know... turnout is way lower obviously, during a mid term election. I think it was stupid to put prop 19 on in 2010, at least from the perspective if you wanted it to win, which I did not.
Hang in there Tony! Keep in mind...
46% yes on Prop 19 represents the highest level of support ever recorded for legalization of marijuana in a statewide ballot.
That is very positive.
Take into consideration that midterm elections usually lean conservative. The nonexistent rebuttal to AG Holders last minute fear mongering was a shame and should of been addressed, like how 19 didn't actually conflict with Fed law....that would of been good.
I bet Lee will be back next year with something more appeasing for 2012...but the question is...more appeasing to whom? It will be a presidential election which means more voter turnout. MPP, NORML, Soros and the like WILL put out more resources. Lee and the whole campaign learned a lot...tons! They will use this to their advantage for next time.
trust me...I see all the negatives that a failed 19 comes with...but I still think we have a shot in 2012.
I'll be stepping up my efforts to educate anyone I can about cannabis legalization and I encourage others to do the same. One day this plant will be set free!
E
el dub
Fear mongering with the best of them.......
lw
lw
This is such a huge dissapointment that prop 19 failed. I can agree with people who say that the bill was far from perfect, but I am more concerned with the ramifications of a state legalizing marijuana. This would have been such a huge step towards nation wide acceptance of marijuana as a substance suitable for recreational usage. I personally, would love to have seen the federal government's response to the passage of this law. They would have been scrambling around like chickens that are missing their heads. Anyway, I have alot more to say about the whole situation but I'm guessing it has already been mentioned. To all the people who make money off the illegality and therefore voted no on this ballot measure: Shame on you... This whole situation is much bigger than the money you make on the black market and if you are too stupid to see that I feel sorry for you.
One thing I think needs to happen, is to start pumping the Public with true info on why and how Cannabis became illegal in the first place-- I think that the General Public has no idea about Harry Anslinger, or the Racial Agenda he had--
Seems like a good time to put up some $$ for a mainstream Documentary...a several part series...to get the Average Person more educated on the History of Cannabis, the truth about some of the many Medical Properties...the fact that it doesn't make you "Drunk"...like alcohol (Many, many ppl still think it does!!)
I think a TV Mini-Series Documentary would be a good investment--
"YouTube" ain't cutting it for getting info out to the General Public--
Funny you should mention that. The National Endowment for the Arts solicits applications for grants to support the production of documentaries every year. Ken Burns, for example, has been supported by them for some of his films. I don't know what they are interested in now, but a few years ago the focus was on American history. What do you think, would the federal government be interested in paying for a documentary on the history of cannabis in the US? Seriously.One thing I think needs to happen, is to start pumping the Public with true info on why and how Cannabis became illegal in the first place-- I think that the General Public has no idea about Harry Anslinger, or the Racial Agenda he had--
Seems like a good time to put up some $$ for a mainstream Documentary...a several part series...to get the Average Person more educated on the History of Cannabis, the truth about some of the many Medical Properties...the fact that it doesn't make you "Drunk"...like alcohol (Many, many ppl still think it does!!)
I think a TV Mini-Series Documentary would be a good investment--
"YouTube" ain't cutting it for getting info out to the General Public--
keep on tokin
New member
Tonight premiering on History, 9pm, Marijuana: A Chronic History. Should be interesting. Bummed about 19 not passing, have to get my rec. renewed now, was hoping to not have to do that again.
I don't see why not-- The cool thing about Cannabis, is you can tell it's history, and it speaks for itself...you wouldn't even have to put a "Pro Legalization" spin on it--
When i was in High School, Being in World history, i would about fall asleep, especially about the Chinnesse Dynasties, There is just so much history to be taught, and of course our Highschools, only teach us, WHAT THEY WANT US TO KNOW!
So i asked my history teacher. Why? Why do they teach us history?
He explained back, " IN hopes to teach the younger Generation so we dont repeat our mistakes in the Future."
So lets hope our education. That both sides, Pro Marijuana, And Against Marijuana can learn from each other. As you can't change someone else's mind, if you are not open to changes yourself.
SCF
California Took their Medical Ballot, from Ideas from Canada. As our country was looking at Canada as kinda a role model at that time. So it was perfect timing for this vote. Things are changing all over the world But, scary part is, we not only have no control. But the issues besides marijuana that are being brought to our table.
I foresee America going down, very slowly, we are in too much debt. And as poor people know. Whats the first thing they do when your in major Debt? Take away your property you bought with that debt!
SCF
So i asked my history teacher. Why? Why do they teach us history?
He explained back, " IN hopes to teach the younger Generation so we dont repeat our mistakes in the Future."
So lets hope our education. That both sides, Pro Marijuana, And Against Marijuana can learn from each other. As you can't change someone else's mind, if you are not open to changes yourself.
SCF
California Took their Medical Ballot, from Ideas from Canada. As our country was looking at Canada as kinda a role model at that time. So it was perfect timing for this vote. Things are changing all over the world But, scary part is, we not only have no control. But the issues besides marijuana that are being brought to our table.
I foresee America going down, very slowly, we are in too much debt. And as poor people know. Whats the first thing they do when your in major Debt? Take away your property you bought with that debt!
SCF
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F
feral
One thing to remember is Obama is no Clinton. Don't get me wrong, I voted for him and still feel he was better choice than McCain, but he's not going to get voted back into office in '12 unless he does some serious turning around.
Prohibition historically never works......you can't stop 'the people' from using what they choose to use.....
Oh yes you can criminalize, persecute and prosecute 'the people' for making/growing and using what is criminalized.....but with cannabis for every grower that is locked up 2 more start up and so law enforcement and the whole gravy-train of paychecks and overtime this entails to enforce these prohibitionist laws has to increase proportionally to ever have a chance of containing this growth in law-breaking and that all takes more tax-payers funds to do it.......
Eventually the $4.5 billion dollars that it is costing now for the fed and state governments of the U.S.A. and the added billions of bucks the rest of the worlds governments are paying to vainly attempt at eradicating cannabis will reach a point where they will have to come to terms with the fact that they are not making much difference at all in actually stopping 'the people' from using or growing what they desire, no matter how much money they waste on doing it......if they have not done already.........and by criminalizing a vast proportion of 'the people' this all leads to a massive amount of dissent and disrespect for a countries laws and the people that have to enforce them.....
Good post Tony......although bleak I reckon that you have your finger on the pulse of how things might go in the immediate future...sadly...
But there are some good things that have come out of this Prop 19 debate and vote.....46% in favor being the main positive side.......and the increased awareness both nationally and internationally that this has brought to the fore.....After decades of negative propaganda in and around the growing and use of cannabis some startling facts have been ingrained into the minds of many people who don't use, about why cannabis should be legalized that they probably would not have known or realized before ......
Oh yes you can criminalize, persecute and prosecute 'the people' for making/growing and using what is criminalized.....but with cannabis for every grower that is locked up 2 more start up and so law enforcement and the whole gravy-train of paychecks and overtime this entails to enforce these prohibitionist laws has to increase proportionally to ever have a chance of containing this growth in law-breaking and that all takes more tax-payers funds to do it.......
Eventually the $4.5 billion dollars that it is costing now for the fed and state governments of the U.S.A. and the added billions of bucks the rest of the worlds governments are paying to vainly attempt at eradicating cannabis will reach a point where they will have to come to terms with the fact that they are not making much difference at all in actually stopping 'the people' from using or growing what they desire, no matter how much money they waste on doing it......if they have not done already.........and by criminalizing a vast proportion of 'the people' this all leads to a massive amount of dissent and disrespect for a countries laws and the people that have to enforce them.....
Good post Tony......although bleak I reckon that you have your finger on the pulse of how things might go in the immediate future...sadly...
But there are some good things that have come out of this Prop 19 debate and vote.....46% in favor being the main positive side.......and the increased awareness both nationally and internationally that this has brought to the fore.....After decades of negative propaganda in and around the growing and use of cannabis some startling facts have been ingrained into the minds of many people who don't use, about why cannabis should be legalized that they probably would not have known or realized before ......
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