240v dryer outlet gives no reading between two hot wires?

[The Wild Eep]

New place, landlord installed a 30A breaker and ran proper size wiring (10/3) to dryer outlet. Multimeter reads 0 between two hots and 120v between X and N or Y and N. X and Y gives me nothing.

It's an old FPE box and it looks like the breaker he installed was used ( I was here when he did it) so is it a bad breaker or something completely different? If I had my way I'd rip out the whole panel and replace it with a company whose products don't start fires.

Again,
Y + N = 120v
X + N = 120v
X + Y = 0v

 

[gomer]

It sounds like both lines of the 240 volt circuit are connected to the same hot leg in the breaker box.

Do you have other 240 volt outlets in the house?
Make sure the breaker box is fed with 240 volts. - At the breaker box make sure the two hots feeding the panel have 240 volts between them.

You should have a double breaker or two single breakers tied together with a pin for the new 240 volt circuit. Check to see that the two breakers pull their power from both hot bars. You should have 240 volts measuring across the two breakers. (The source for wires X and Y)

 

[The Wild Eep]

No other 240 outlets in the house. The two hots are connected to the 30A breaker properly, if that's what you're asking? The property is a duplex, and my neighbor's 30A breaker is twice as wide as mine. If you aren't familiar with the old FPE Stab-loks they have pins on the breaker, as opposed to everything else's female connectors now, and yes there are two pins. Perhaps a total of four pins are needed with a wider (thick) breaker?

 

[gomer]

The two hots are connected to the 30A breaker properly, if that's what you're asking?

When you say connected properly you mean to two different screws (located on the two breakers or the two halves of the double), correct? By breaker you mean a double breaker or two breakers tied together with a pin?

My old house only has room for 8 full size breakers in the Federal box. There were newer and/or larger FPE boxes made. Not sure what type or size your stab-lok panel is.

The key is you need to pick up both sides of the 240 volts. It could be the breaker type or placement. If you don't have 240 volts across the wires out of the panel maybe get the landlord to fix it. If it was just installed.

 

[The Wild Eep]

lol, yes, two different screws on one double. I'll take pics in the morning. The landlord is awful, as this was to be sorted out before I even moved in, so getting him to do it will prove difficult.

edit: I'll probably buy the $70 "thick" (takes up 4 slots) 30A breaker in the morning and if there's no change, return the breaker. If it works, I'll send a bill to the landlord

 

[Marshall]

i am not familiar with these panels but I wonder if this is like a slim line breaker. basically two breakers in one slot. problem is it is not DP since it is not catching both legs. is the breaker basically the same size as your other breakers?


And WTF about your landlord? this scares me if he did this cause obviously he does not know what he is doing and didnt even check this.

 

[RedReign]

Sounds like Marshall nailed this one. A 220v breaker is twice as wide/thick as a 120v breaker.

 

[The Wild Eep]

lol, guys, I'm not retarded but thanks for the posts. No, it's not the same size as the 120v breakers. You really need to be familiar with FPE to help on this one, I think.

 

[FlyinHawaiian]

i didnt know what FPE is but this is the first atricle i found on a search. sounds like somthing u should upgrade lol.

Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panels and breakers are a latent hazard and can fail to trip in response to overcurrent, leading to electrical fires. The breakers may also fail to shut off internally even if the toggle is switched to "off." Some double-pole (240-Volt) FPE circuit breakers and single-pole FPE Stab-Lok circuit breakers simply do not work safely.

There are other FPE panel-defects independent of the breaker problems, panel and panel-bus fires and arcing failures in some equipment. The failure rates for these circuit breakers were and still are significant. In some cases failure to trip occurs 60% of the time - a serious fire and electrical shock hazard.

Failures are documented in the CPSC study and by independent research. Additional independent testing and research are on-going and are reported here. FPE Stab-Lok electrical panels should be replaced. Do not simply swap in some replacement breakers

 

[The Wild Eep]

Indeed they are unsafe but there's little I can do short of replacing the panel myself (as I mentioned) as the landlord will NOT replace it on my request. Yes, it's a shitty situation, I know, but there are far worse places.

I'm still betting it's the wrong sized breaker so I got up with an electrician friend and he'll grab me a "4 slot" 30A for $10, as opposed to $70 at the 'Depot.

 

[RedReign]

Here is a link that shows both single pole (120v) and and double pole (240v) FPE Stablok breakers, in both thick and thin styles.

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/Depart...ederal-Pacific-Stab-Lok-Circuit-Breakers.aspx

I'm not familiar FPE panels, but all breakers work the same, at least every panel I've come across. Sounds like you are sure it is a double pole breaker. Assuming you are familiar with a volt meter and electrical panels, here is how to find your problem in 2 minutes.

Step 1. Check voltage directly at both screws on the breaker. It should read between 220-240 volts. If not go to step 2.

Step 2. Remove the breaker from the bus. Check voltage directly at the bus. If it is good and the bus isn't damaged, the problem is the breaker. You may be able to visually see the damage on the breaker.

Good luck.

 

[amargas]

I had this problem myself at one point and the issue is with "phase". You can have a proper 240 breaker installed and be getting 120 off each hot lead at the breaker and at the dryer receptacle but fail to have true 240 current between the hots if both hots are coming off the same leg on your panel (as many other posters have noted). Your two hots need to be out of phase with each other to get 240 and that comes from them tapping into each leg on your panel. You don't necessarily need a breaker that installs across both sides. In my panel the legs kind of zig zag, and I had a double wide DP 30A breaker installed on one side only. Turns out all I had to do was scoot it up one notch on the panel, and then I got my 240. The swimming pool pump had stopped working too and that was because I had shifted it down a notch to make room- but it lost 240 in the process. Hope this helps- 40 is all about "phase"! I know this thread is a bit old but I am guessing your breaker is fine, you just need to move it up or down to get 240. Good luck and be safe.

 

[strydr]

i didnt know what FPE is but this is the first atricle i found on a search. sounds like somthing u should upgrade lol.

Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panels and breakers are a latent hazard and can fail to trip in response to overcurrent, leading to electrical fires. The breakers may also fail to shut off internally even if the toggle is switched to "off." Some double-pole (240-Volt) FPE circuit breakers and single-pole FPE Stab-Lok circuit breakers simply do not work safely.

There are other FPE panel-defects independent of the breaker problems, panel and panel-bus fires and arcing failures in some equipment. The failure rates for these circuit breakers were and still are significant. In some cases failure to trip occurs 60% of the time - a serious fire and electrical shock hazard.

Failures are documented in the CPSC study and by independent research. Additional independent testing and research are on-going and are reported here. FPE Stab-Lok electrical panels should be replaced. Do not simply swap in some replacement breakers

I had a FPE stab-lok panel, but convinced my landlord to replace it (because of the article FlyinHawaiian quoted here) . The biggest risk for this panel is if you use the 240 circuit to power a subpanel, where you would split it out to 240 and 120. As long as you only use it for 240, the risk of failure is lessened.

Also, the co (FPE) is no longer in business- grab a spare breaker from your friend if you plan on being there a while. Any replacements you find will most likely be recycled, or old, unpurchased new ones.

 

[el Dream Reader]

Old thread, but it sounds to me that he was testing voltage by placing the probes in the hot terminals without touching a ground with one probe, so if the meter is not grounded it won't show current. You can only test the hot sides individually, one probe in the hot slot and one in the ground, you should get 120v from the hot leads which will add up to 240.
Based on you tests, It sounds to me that the circuit is fine.

 

[Avenger]

Old thread, but it sounds to me that he was testing voltage by placing the probes in the hot terminals without touching a ground with one probe, so if the meter is not grounded it won't show current. You can only test the hot sides individually, one probe in the hot slot and one in the ground, you should get 120v from the hot leads which will add up to 240.
Based on you tests, It sounds to me that the circuit is fine.

please don't give any more electrical advice.

 

[el Dream Reader]

please don't give any more electrical advice.

Why? You don't like right answers?

 

[Avenger]

Why? You don't like right answers?

Because you are a fool, and fools are dangerous.

 

[stratmandu]

Old thread, but it sounds to me that he was testing voltage by placing the probes in the hot terminals without touching a ground with one probe, so if the meter is not grounded it won't show current. You can only test the hot sides individually, one probe in the hot slot and one in the ground, you should get 120v from the hot leads which will add up to 240. Based on you tests, It sounds to me that the circuit is fine.

BZZZZT WRONG. In the first place you are measuring AC voltage, not current, and in the second place the two hots on a 240 single-phase circuit are by definition OUT OF PHASE and do indeed measure 240 across them when properly wired. If they measure zero, its because both sides of the breaker are being fed from the same panel PHASE, which has been previously noted by a more astute reader. So the breaker isn't installed correctly or the wiring has one wire mixed up. Period. I agree your advice is fugazi.

 

[The Wild Eep]

Sorry about failing to update this with a solution!

The problem was with these old FPE boxes, 240v current can only be achieved by placing the breaker directly in the middle - allowing only 2 240v circuits in an 8-breaker box, unlike a more modern/common box where a 240 simply takes up two 120v slots anywhere there's room.

Short answer: Gomer nailed it - placement issue.

 

[26man]

If you have an old federal pacific panel box it's most likely split phase 240 coming in but split in panel....personally I would have it changed out...there's another way to make it work but wouldn't be up to code