wtf is this?

[highbrid1]

Anybody have a clue what this is? Some Green Crack about 10 days in. All the pistols are dead and the new foliage is curled. Other than that, the plants could not be healthier (srs). I ran a batch of the same GC a few months ago w/ same conditions and did not have any problems at all and have some other strains going that DO have the same problem.

Ive never seen this before, but suspect it's a nute deficiency. I fed them for the first time @ 9 days in at about 1/5 strength b/c the last batch didnt need food yet and I just transplanted into fresh potent soil.

Nothing got in the air or was sprayed on them either.

FF Ocean Forrest
Pure Blend Pro, Floralicious and Sweet
PH 6.3 -6.5
temps 75-85
circulation is good

My theories are:

- I just replaced some old bulbs (last grow) w/ new hortilux. I had not fed the plants yet when this problem arose b/c I just transplanted before harvest and the last grow didnt need food until 10-14 days. The new bulbs cranked out more light causing the plants to be deficient.

- Something toxic got in the nutrient solution

 

[has_some_sinse]

Keep any males around or cultivars known to hermie? It looks pollinated to me. I need more leaf detail photos to be sure if it is a def.

 

[highbrid1]

Nope, no males or hermies in there. Wish I had a better cam, but the pistols all look like they died before maturing - they dont look like normal dead pistols. Almost every single hair in the room is dead and the new foilage near the bud spots is curled.

Heres another shot. Literally every plant in the room could not be healthier except for this. Foilage is lush and they're packing on new fukd up flowers by the hour ;(

 

[MynameStitch]

need more information
also how long were they in ocean forrst before you fed them?
The plants that are affected, the ones with the HPS light on, can you retake those without the HPS light on so I can see the coloration of the plant.
SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What brand Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
How old is your bulbs?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[highbrid1]

need more information
also how long were they in ocean forrst before you fed them? I transplant right before flowering so they were in the new ocean forrest/perlite for 9-10 days before getting any food
The plants that are affected, the ones with the HPS light on, can you retake those without the HPS light on so I can see the coloration of the plant. the second pic is the same plant as the first pic. There is no discoloration anywhere on the plants.

Like I said, been using the same set up w same strains for a while now and have never seen this. The only new addition is the new bulbs, the old ones were OLD>
SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on? about 5 days
What STRAIN are you growing? green crack, blue dream, og kush
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) clone
What is the age of your plants? 5-6 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 13 days
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? same
How Tall are the plants? 14 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flower (13 days)
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) big SOG
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 2 gallon, 1 per
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) FF Ocean Forrest w 30% perlite
What brand Nutrient's are you using? answered
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding? answered above
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? no nutes first 9 days, then 1/5 strength (6 ml/gal)
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) ?
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? NA (soil)
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? ?
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? PH is 6.5 ish everytime
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? pen
How often are you watering? every 3-4 days (when 75% dry)
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using? 400w HPS
How old is your bulbs? BRAND new
What is the distance to the canopy? 12-16 inches under glass barrier
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 35%
What is the canopy temperature? 85
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) day root zone 75, night 70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) proper
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? 5 inch axials (1 intake, 1 exhaust)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? intake is dir on one
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? nope, very proper cycle
Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard, been using it for years
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) tap, chlorine is burned off, tds is fine
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? low branches removed after problem showed
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? Einstein oil was used to treat a minor mite issue on the mother plant clones were taken from
Are plant's infected with pest's? not anymore (no signs for a month)

 

[highbrid1]

anybody? Some of the stems look much more red/purple than usual too. Potassium def???

 

[Hammerhead]

I have been growing a long time and this rears it's head sometimes. I can never find why. I have some plant now that exhibit the leaf curl. Plants look great. This seems to go away after a few weeks.

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

It really does sound pollinated. I can't see shit in the pics (probably not your fault) but I bet you picked up some pollen somewhere because the plant looks healthy. Pistils recoil to friction and blunt force trauma as well

 

[medfinder]

water transperation issues...if it was pollenated it would show some small necrotic areas on the pistils..becarefull how any salt ferts are acumilating...as well as drainage issues.

 

[Bluenose510]

Dude i never seen that myself. My leaves are curled also, i just hope i dont have the same problems

 

[highbrid1]

Thanks guise. Im 99% sure its not pollination. The room was just sanitized before the grow and there are no male flowers anywhere.

Heres another. All the pistols are about 1/10 the size of a normal dead pistol and look like they were burnt by a lighter. Almost all on three different strains are dead. Any live pistols are low and deformed.

Medfinder: Water transpiration? I just transplanted to bigger containers before flowering about 2 weeks ago and didn't start feeding until 5 days ago. All containers have rocks at the bottom and drain very well. Could high RH be causing this?

I also added two new bulbs after using some very old ones for a while. Maybe Im underfeeding because of the brighter lights? Started at 6ml/gal of PBP (20%) 5 days ago. Could it be a phosphorus deficiency?

 

[Hammerhead]

ya yours is not like mine I thought I saw some Leaves that had curl that pic does not show that. I agree with you dont think that is pollination. Something is def wrong. You could check your roots for root rot. Pop it out of the container and look at the roots should be nice white color unless u use a product like Liquid Karma.

 

[strawbrrygirl]

raise the light just like lights have a sweet spot they have HOT spot also thats what i suggest that shit happens to me when i get to close to the 400w! it will hermie if the heat is not taken care of! my OPINON !!!!!peace

 

[statusquo]

Do you have a filter on your intake? It is possible that your plants got rogue pollinated but seeing as I have not researched breading very heavily, I can't visually identify the early stages of pollination.

Just a precaution, a lot of grows where people have kept most of the normal culprit variables the same (water, ph, soil, lights etc etc) don't think about the abnormal culprits. Consider offgasing any think about any plastic/pvc you have in your setup. I know some popular tubing from a name brand, mostly related to hydro but not exclusively, was recently discovered to have this problem and was the hidden culprit behind many people desperately trying to figure out what was wrong while having poor crop after poor crop. I am also leaning towards this because even if you haven't added any new kind of plastic/pvc or any other offgasing material, you added a new and stronger light which would result in more offgasging and thus higher levels of toxins in the air. The same applies if for some reason your exhaust has slowed down - the longer toxic air is in the room and the less fresh air you have coming in, the more damage offgassing can do.

 

[ganjaments]

Just a precaution, a lot of grows where people have kept most of the normal culprit variables the same (water, ph, soil, lights etc etc) don't think about the abnormal culprits. Consider offgasing any think about any plastic/pvc you have in your setup. I know some popular tubing from a name brand, mostly related to hydro but not exclusively, was recently discovered to have this problem and was the hidden culprit behind many people desperately trying to figure out what was wrong while having poor crop after poor crop. I am also leaning towards this because even if you haven't added any new kind of plastic/pvc or any other offgasing material, you added a new and stronger light which would result in more offgasging and thus higher levels of toxins in the air. The same applies if for some reason your exhaust has slowed down - the longer toxic air is in the room and the less fresh air you have coming in, the more damage offgassing can do.

There are also some bogus tents out there that have major offgasing issues! (link)

 

[lokes]

I'm going to go out on a limb but they may be over watered?

Also I like what Ganja said about offgassing. That shit will cause all kinds of weird sides.

 

[ganja_hasi]

imo that's a salt build up issue..flush them a bit and check your run off rates

 

[highbrid1]

Thanks for the advice everyone. This is the weirdest problem Ive encountered in my days at this fine hobby. I was up until 3am dealing with this. Ive got alot invested in this grow and its really fuckn me up .

Do you have a filter on your intake? It is possible that your plants got rogue pollinated but seeing as I have not researched breading very heavily, I can't visually identify the early stages of pollination.

Just a precaution, a lot of grows where people have kept most of the normal culprit variables the same (water, ph, soil, lights etc etc) don't think about the abnormal culprits. Consider offgasing any think about any plastic/pvc you have in your setup. I know some popular tubing from a name brand, mostly related to hydro but not exclusively, was recently discovered to have this problem and was the hidden culprit behind many people desperately trying to figure out what was wrong while having poor crop after poor crop. I am also leaning towards this because even if you haven't added any new kind of plastic/pvc or any other offgasing material, you added a new and stronger light which would result in more offgasging and thus higher levels of toxins in the air. The same applies if for some reason your exhaust has slowed down - the longer toxic air is in the room and the less fresh air you have coming in, the more damage offgassing can do.

Offgassing eyyyhhh?? GREAT post and I think you may be onto something. After a closer look, the plants near the intake have far better looking pistols than the ones far away (though still not right), so circulation is def a factor. The grow box I use has one 5 inch axial for intake and one for exhaust with a carbon filter on the exhaust. This is my eighth grow using this box and I have never changed or cleaned the filter. Could it be dirty and blocking the exhaust? Both fans appear to be working as intended.

I have grown before with the same amount of plants / foilage in the box and have never had this problem, so Im not 100% convinced its offgasing, but Im leaning toward it now. It could be the exhaust is not working right and/or the new lights pushed it over the limit as far as toxicity.

I moved 4/10 plants to a different area, so if offgasing is the issue, this should solve it, right?? The plants all look very healthy, so I should see some normal growth soon, right?!?!

imo that's a salt build up issue..flush them a bit and check your run off rates

Yeah man, like I said, I just transplanted two weeks ago and had not used a drop of nutes when the problem arose, so over feeding is not it, unless Fox Farms is putting too much food in the soil.

 

[highbrid1]

also, everything I read about offgassing has to do with some kind of bad plastic. if the circulation is not sufficient, can plants offgas themselves? like have toxicity issues from their own oxygen or does offgassing only occur with some kind of plastic? thanks

 

[Hammerhead]

off gassing can be caused by many things. When the temp gets hot items start to out gas anything that is toxic can out gas and cause big problems. Plants will not out gas