Electrical advice needed! Step up and get your posi-props!

[Tilt]

You can let the sparky wire in the outlets. Tell him you want the 2 circuits dedicated each with their own nuetral. after he is done . Turn off the panel take out the single pole breaker he put in. Put in a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. hook up the black wire to 1 pole. Then take the nuetral white wire. Tape it black or a sharpie works. change the plug he installs to a 2 pole 20 amp plug. Bam 20 amp 240v plug that has 3,840 watts available. keep the other outlet to run your 120v equipment.

there is about half a dozen other possibilties too.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

how does this diagram look...everything good..all circuits well under load capacity?

 

[rives]

Should work. Your load from the (4) 600's is going to be a little higher than you calculated because of the ballast losses, but not too much.

i posted in the wrong thread...so if i want two 240v outlets il have to run it off its own 20amp circuit. and then the other 20amp circuit will be only 120v. i seee....

so my total plans are, since i want to stay well below load. is to run four 600s off the 240v 20 amp circuit. for a total load of 10amps....then run my AC and equipment off the 120v 20amp circuit...then run the remaining lamps off the 30amp dryer circuit..

sound about right!? thanks for everyone who contributed...

 

[Yes4Prop215]

You can let the sparky wire in the outlets. Tell him you want the 2 circuits dedicated each with their own nuetral. after he is done . Turn off the panel take out the single pole breaker he put in. Put in a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. hook up the black wire to 1 pole. Then take the nuetral white wire. Tape it black or a sharpie works. change the plug he installs to a 2 pole 20 amp plug. Bam 20 amp 240v plug that has 3,840 watts available. keep the other outlet to run your 120v equipment.

there is about half a dozen other possibilties too.

he said each 20amp circuit was dedicated we are running it off a special subpanel in my garage that was installed for a hot tub.
.but i will ask him to make sure. i only intend to run four 600 watt lamps off the 240 v circuit. i wanna keep everything well under load thats why im spacing everything out.


RIVES- so i will be pullin maybe like 12 amps then? thats fine....as long as im under 80 percent ideally would like to be 50 but its ok..

 

[rives]

RIVES- so i will be pullin maybe like 12 amps then? thats fine....as long as im under 80 percent ideally would like to be 50 but its ok..

I would approximate it at about 10%, so a total of 11 amps. Not significant. Could be a little less or a little more.

 

[allouez]

Before I say anything, I'll mention that I'm no electrician - I'm just a random idiot.

To be cautious, lets say the 600 watter uses 700 watts. (it probably uses at least 650w)
700 watts divided by 240 volts equals 2.9 amps. So yeah about 12 amps for four of them. Personally I'd stay under 15 amps on a 20 amp circuit. Commonly I'd hear that a circuit is only meant to have a continuous load maximum 80% of its total capacity. I round down to 15 amps just to be safer (and to consider supposedly possible 220 voltage drop)

I wouldn't know what to do with a 3 prong 30 amp outlet. Above 20 amps is beyond my IQ. My moronic way of thinking would be to replace the dryer outlet's circuit breaker with a double pole 20 amp 240 volt breaker. Then take out the dryer plug, and connect those wires to an Intermatic T104 for the timer. Then wire from the T104 to a 4 plug receptacle box with 6-20R receptacles. Then plug up to three 1000 watt ballasts to that. (or five 600 watters)

Yes4Prop215, I originally was going to reply to your first post, but then lost track of the current situation as the posts wore on.

http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

 

[Flying High]

Neither of you are taking ballast losses into account. The ballast itself consumes power doing it's job, so you need to estimate approximately an additional 10% wattage consumption beyond the nominal lamp wattage.

Some equipment besides an air conditioner that could require 240v would include: babbitt pot (for casting bullets, fishing weights, etc); kiln (pottery making); mixers (again, pottery making), etc. Look around on the net and you might find a new hobby!

The crap from CAP is potentially very dangerous. The reason that NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) has set standards on plug configuration is to preclude the possibility of plugging in the wrong voltage device. CAP then comes along and markets their proprietary receptacle as a wonderful solution to not having the appropriate equipment, exposing a stoned client base to all of the dangers of hooking up equipment to the wrong voltage. I would be interested to see what a fire insurance inspector's view would be of finding that gear at a fire scene - I would be willing to bet that your coverage would be void.

Rives,you make a good point about actual power draw versus stated power draw.

Rives, you make a valid point about being able to plug a 110v appliance into a 240v receptacle being dangerous. With that said, in the case of a lighting control wired exclusively for 240v use, how can a 110-250v 20amp receptacle be wrong? Can we get some facts regarding why these receptacles are not appropriate if wired exclusively 110v or 240v? For reference the lighting control pictured by 215 above uses the same receptacles as the CAP MLC-8 I have.
User error does not imply an inferior product! Is it the gas stations fault you put diesel in you gasoline tank?

Regarding the CAP MLC-8 I referred to; having used a couple of other relays of various design, I have to say the components in the CAP relay appear to be heavier duty than either the GE or the off brand from the hydro store I have used. When I say appear, I mean to say the actual relays on the CAP controller are well over twice the thickness and size of the other brands I have used, although the current ratings were the same.
I have not seen inside the Sentinel brand relay, but would assume it is equally as suited for the task.


As to insurance inspectors and fire inspectors; I have had the pleasure of dealing with both!!!
Like I said in my first post; you can do everything right in your grow room and have an electrical fire somewhere else on the property which will get your neighbors, fire dept, police, utility crews and insurance agents inside your house regardless of your wishes to keep them out.(yeah, that was a shitty evening!!!) I can honestly say that both inspectors and the responding utility crew were impressed with the entire electrical set-up I have, including the CAP mlc-8 lighting relay. From what they told me, it is very rare to find a grow room that meets county code requirements. The report from the fire inspector states their were no contributing causes to this fire; that is to say, the utility meter somehow failed and caught fire.
Yes, homeowner's insurance paid this claim!!!!

 

[Flying High]

how does this diagram look...everything good..all circuits well under load capacity?

You do not need to change the plugs on you ballast! I am assuming Rives is referring to using the 6-15 and 6-20 to power the lighting control, not individual ballasts?

 

[rives]

Flying High - The basis behind NEMA having specific, mutually exclusive plug configurations for every voltage/phase configuration is to absolutely preclude connecting incompatible power supplies/devices. We have had multiple generations of electricity users that expect to have safe results when they plug in whatever device they are using. (What happens when your wife comes it to help clean up the grow room and plugs in the shop vac to the unused receptacle on your light controller?). The other side of this is when you set aside your ballasts for a time in favor of something else, and several grows later decide to use them again. If you have a standard 5-15 or 5-20 plug on them, are you going to remember the ballast is tapped @ 240 or are you just going to plug it in? It is asinine to leave booby-traps for yourself where you need to carry a voltmeter and a screwdriver in order to check what you have got before you plug something in. This problem was foreseen and dealt with years ago, and then some stoner logic decided to bypass it because it was easier. This is not a case of user error like the gas nozzle - everyone knows that either nozzle will fit and act accordingly. At the same time, everyone knows that when you plug a 120 volt device into a 5-15R or 5-20R, that the result is the device is going to work, not burst into flame.

The example given for your fire insurance claim isn't really pertinent, because the fire's source wasn't the grow. The lack of UL approval alone would be a big red flag for the CAP controller.

 

[rives]

You do not need to change the plugs on you ballast! I am assuming Rives is referring to using the 6-15 and 6-20 to power the lighting control, not individual ballasts?

The OP's ballast already had a 6-15P on it, as it should have. I take it that you are not an electrician? Check out the following link for an explanation of NEMA plug configurations and their usage.

http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

 

[Flying High]

Rives, thank you for the NEMA link, very helpful for those of us who are not electricians.
I think we are talking apples and oranges. I respect where you are coming from...
If we are talking about receptacles in the wall; I agree with you, accidentally plugging in the wrong appliance is not an acceptable option; correct receptacles must be used.

When we are talking about a lighting control designed specifically for powering ballasts which may use either 110v or 240v or both, the universal receptacle seems like a good idea. I would like to know if these receptacles are dangerous in terms of their ability to handle the rated loads?

 

[rives]

Rives, thank you for the NEMA link, very helpful for those of us who are not electricians.
I think we are talking apples and oranges. I respect where you are coming from...
If we are talking about receptacles in the wall; I agree with you, accidentally plugging in the wrong appliance is not an acceptable option; correct receptacles must be used.

When we are talking about a lighting control designed specifically for powering ballasts which may use either 110v or 240v or both, the universal receptacle seems like a good idea. I would like to know if these receptacles are dangerous in terms of their ability to handle the rated loads?

The idea of a universal device for different voltages flies in the face of the rational behind the NEMA standards. You would be better off with some insulated quick-connects dangling from the panel so that you knew that you had better carefully check things out before hooking up. If this "universal" plug configuration was different than an already-existing standard, perhaps a case could be made for it. However, when you take a receptacle that is instantly recognizable by everyone in North America and put a different voltage on it, it's a really poor idea. As far as safely handling the loads and voltages, I would assume that they would be fine because neither the load or the voltage is that extreme. I doubt that there is any way of finding out, however, because any reputable certification lab would run like hell from something like that.

 

[stagehand099]

Rives, I totally agree with you. 6-20P's and 6-20R's are found inexpensively on the Bay and should always be used for connecting 240v. I had a 1K ballast that was bought 120v but was multi-tap. I changed it to 240v but left the 5-15 edison plug on it. Even though I marked 240v on the ballast, that thing bugged the shit out of me for 2 runs until I cut the 5-15 and replaced it with 6-20P. I just knew I was gonna fuck up with it somewhere down the road! You give good advice and I, for one, appreciate it. Gotta help keep these stoners safe, huh? Take care.

stagehand

 

[Tilt]

Rives fighting the good fight. I personaly am very fond of locking type receptacles and plugs. They are far safer for 240v applications.

flying high
the receptacles nuetral side must be able to carry as much load as the hot side. They will carry the rated load. As for universal receptacles. I think it is a manufacturing short cut to save money and does not factor in saftey. It is easier for them to put in one type of receptacle than to build and market 2 different voltage types of equipment. This will get them sued one day count on it.