Earth Juice Users
- Thread starter Tactical Farmer
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Tactical Farmer
Member
Proofs in the puddin' Zendo.
Sounds like you got it all figured out - care to show some of your work as I see nadaa.
FK - Ive been over my PH thing quite a bit, please take some time & read what ive been writing.
Meter is easy as on - dip - read - record - off.
Sounds like you got it all figured out - care to show some of your work as I see nadaa.
FK - Ive been over my PH thing quite a bit, please take some time & read what ive been writing.
Meter is easy as on - dip - read - record - off.
FinestKind
Member
Organics & EC readings - This is even more of a danger zone to talk about here than the great PH debate but you know me
Luna - The numbers are a (rough guide) to the nutrient potency but they are consistent within (your system).
Simply finding your general EC (sweet spot) number range will take some time & cycles but should eliminate the guessing game with how much & when to feed.
Here is a simple general example:
Got a plant in full flower with runoff telling me the soil is at EC 2.0 / PPM 1000 or 1400 (my max sweet spot for this stain) 3 days later I water & my runoff EC drops to 1.6 showing me I need to feed now about 0.4 or in 3 more days about 0.8.
So I just add a dash of this & that till the tea gets to that number (not following a general guessing schedule).
What has led me to this working is noticing that when I get lazy & fed the standard way (TBS per gal) is the soil gets up to numbers like (EC 3.2 / PPM 1600 - 2240 & growth / health slows & EC levels slowly drop.
BUT when I keep runoff on larger plants near (EC 2.0 / PPM 1000 - 1400) they gobble up the nutes (EC runoff levels drop much quicker) & the plants grow great.
This is hard for me to explain - hope you can make sense of it ?
I ask the skeptics to check your runoff & post your readings - I would be willing to bet your numbers are really high ?
* This is just something I have been tinkering with for fun & im extremely happy with the results. This is a brief intro on it (needs its own thread) but if there is much interest then I would be willing to share more (in a different thread) about my lone travels down the organic ec rabbit hole.
Did you ever make this thread, Tac? Cause I could sure use it now.
Tactical Farmer
Member
Had a few people ask me about doing it & I started but quit due to the fact it seemed to be falling on deaf ears.
It gos against what the majority have been teaching, maybe im just lucky & my soil, water, nutes combo makes my results very affective ?
Building a rich humus soil, adding lime & letting mother nature take care of the rest wasn't working as good as this for me.
Watching & recording the EC runoff numbers I noticed consistent readings where the plant was the "happiest" at a general EC #.
So I simply just keep the soil in that general area depending on the stage of growth.
Its not reinventing the wheel - just a tool to have a general idea how rich the soil is so you got an idea if your under or overfeeding.
But now that I have done it for awhile im able to really dial things in.
It gos against what the majority have been teaching, maybe im just lucky & my soil, water, nutes combo makes my results very affective ?
Building a rich humus soil, adding lime & letting mother nature take care of the rest wasn't working as good as this for me.
Watching & recording the EC runoff numbers I noticed consistent readings where the plant was the "happiest" at a general EC #.
So I simply just keep the soil in that general area depending on the stage of growth.
Its not reinventing the wheel - just a tool to have a general idea how rich the soil is so you got an idea if your under or overfeeding.
But now that I have done it for awhile im able to really dial things in.
FinestKind
Member
I read the bit you quoted from the Metanaturals fertilizer about it being a tool in the arsenal... made perfect sense. I agree, anything which can be used to help understand what's going on in the soil can't be a bad thing- as long as it's used correctly.
Okay, so I saw that you keep the EC of your runoff at around 2.0- this being for your particular strain in your particular soil mix, I get that- but what do you like to have for an EC going in? I've got some hydro guys telling me that I want to be around 2.0... right now I've got a batch brewing which actually has all of the bottle recommendations for "normal" in it (which is unusual for me- I'm a notorious over-feeder so I tend to go light these days), and the EC is 1.2. What do you think?
Oh, and I suppose it's an important piece of info to say that I feed with every watering, which for me is every 6 or 7 days.
Thanks!
FK
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Tactical Farmer
Member
I would recomend testing the runoff with plain water first before you boost it with 1.2, thats a fairy good level going in.
Im getting the feeling your runoff might be maxing the meter + 3.6 maybe.
Its real easy to get up to high levels like that, expecially if the PH is way out & or amendments are kicking in.
Over 3.0 seems to bog a plant down - Understand though a plant can grow "alright" at high levels (maxing meter) but keeping it much lower is where you wanna be.
Its not an end all solution to problems - you can still get deficiencies, just won't be from over or under feeding hopefully.
If my grow is running smooth these Green Devils will suck up about 0.6 EC in 3 days during mid flower.
Wish I only watered once a week - its that normal ? Mine would be falling over 1/2 dead if I waited that long ?
Im getting the feeling your runoff might be maxing the meter + 3.6 maybe.
Its real easy to get up to high levels like that, expecially if the PH is way out & or amendments are kicking in.
Over 3.0 seems to bog a plant down - Understand though a plant can grow "alright" at high levels (maxing meter) but keeping it much lower is where you wanna be.
Its not an end all solution to problems - you can still get deficiencies, just won't be from over or under feeding hopefully.
If my grow is running smooth these Green Devils will suck up about 0.6 EC in 3 days during mid flower.
Wish I only watered once a week - its that normal ? Mine would be falling over 1/2 dead if I waited that long ?
FinestKind
Member
Thanks man, sounds logical... I'll let you know if my levels are way out of whack.
I don't know if once a week is normal... apparently not, according to all the comments I get about it whenever I mention it! People always say to me I'm underwatering, but my pots are heavy right up until day 6 or 7, never have any problems with wilting or anything... I'm using Pro-Mix which plenty of people use, I'm in 3 gallon pots (the true 3 gallons, not the 2.5's disguised as 3's) with 2 foot plants (3 weeks veg)... I have no idea, but if I was watering 2x per week, they would be waterlogged constantly and I would be making a fungus gnat haven.
Tactical Farmer
Member
Cool NP,
Not sure whats the deal with the long watering ?
What & how much are you adding to the promix amendment wise ?
Whats the EC of the water your using ?
Not sure whats the deal with the long watering ?
What & how much are you adding to the promix amendment wise ?
Whats the EC of the water your using ?
FinestKind
Member
I don't know either, but haven't stressed about it too much, as I prefer watering 1x per week to 2x
All I add to the ProMix is 2tsp of EJ Rooter's mycorrhizae and 2TB of Dolomite lime (per gallon in each case)...
The EC of my tap water (it's from a well on our property, and has NOTHING in it- I've tested it) is 0, according to my fancy new meter.
One thing I just thought of: for whatever reason (I think I need some new airstones) the pH of my tea isn't rising, and it's time to water them. Should I raise the pH with Hydrated lime (takes about 1/4t per gallon), or use it as it is? My pH is around 4 at last check. The runoff the last time I checked was pH 6.0.
Thanks!
FK
M
milehighmedical
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FinestKind
Member
The joys of living in the Northeastern United States! (One of the few...) I have a hot tub, so I know for a fact that the Ca level is 30 ppm, which is obviously too low to register on the meter. By the way, I bought a bluelab Truncheon, which requires no calibration- and seeing as it's brandy-new, I trust it's integrity still. Granted, it could still be higher than 0 ppm, but no lights light up at all, that's what I meant actually. And third (yes, there is a third!), I got a "well water test kit" from a company called WaterSafe, which, while probably not 100% accurate (real water testing is expensive, as I'm sure you know) none-the-less registered as 0 ppm on every test (iron, copper, lead, bacteria, pesticides, Nitrates and Nitrites, Chlorine... and as I mentioned, the TH (Total Hardness) was <50ppm)... So I guess I'm just lucky. And I gotta tell ya, my water tastes GOOOOOD!
FK
The joys of living in the Northeastern United States! (One of the few...) I have a hot tub, so I know for a fact that the Ca level is 30 ppm, which is obviously too low to register on the meter. By the way, I bought a bluelab Truncheon, which requires no calibration- and seeing as it's brandy-new, I trust it's integrity still. Granted, it could still be higher than 0 ppm, but no lights light up at all, that's what I meant actually. And third (yes, there is a third!), I got a "well water test kit" from a company called WaterSafe, which, while probably not 100% accurate (real water testing is expensive, as I'm sure you know) none-the-less registered as 0 ppm on every test (iron, copper, lead, bacteria, pesticides, Nitrates and Nitrites, Chlorine... and as I mentioned, the TH (Total Hardness) was <50ppm)... So I guess I'm just lucky. And I gotta tell ya, my water tastes GOOOOOD!
FK
You bluelab truncheon ranges from 0.2 EC - 3.6 EC
0.2 EC at .7 conversion because the truncheon uses a .7 conversion equals 140ppm. If you water test below 140 ppm it will not light up even the lowest setting on your tester. Maybe your version will even read 0.1 EC to 3.6 ec is thats so then if your water test below 70 ppm it will not light even the lowest setting.
Either way your water isnt at 0ppm but your right about it showing up as nothing on your meter.
frikn squirrel
Member
I'm curious to hear other's opinions on what to do here as well. My tea has been bubbling @ 65 degrees for 2 days and the ph hasn't risen one bit.
Personally I'd get a silica additive and use it as a ph for your tea, It will bring the ph up and provide silica to the plants.
I wouldnt run the 4.0 ph tea through without bringing it up to 6.4 6.5 range for soil. I'd bring it up with silica additive myself, But if you choose to use lime so be it.
Silica blast or simular will work and its benneficial to the plants.
Dorje113
Member
It depends on the current alkalinity of your soil, if you already added lime or are using commercial potting mix chances are you do not need to adjust the pH of your tea.
I'll mention again that pH tests (as well as N-P-K) are available that actually test your SOIL and not just your runoff, which doesn't make any sense to me, especially because I don't understand why you'd even want runoff.... anyway, by measuring runoff you are measuring an indirect indicator of what's in the soil but a soil test will actually tell you directly. The soil test kits are made by Rapidtest, Security and others. They run about $20 for a basic kit you can buy at a local garden store.
Tactical Farmer
Member
FK - All I can think of is I would run some water through first & see how strong of an EC reading you get before you add the tea.
If its more than 2.5 then I would not add any nutes.
Also if your confident the soil PH is at the low end - a light top dress of powdered lime will bring the soil PH up some to a slightly better spot.
Dorje - How long have you been using these test kits ?
Ive seen them but never gave it a chance but you do make it sound interesting.
Im sure its not rocket science but please add any advanced tips that you may have picked up ?
* I did some surfing about the kits & there are ALOT of mixed reviews - quite a few bad ones where people would send off the soil for a pro test & compare that with a home test. There seemed to be a large difference between the separate tests on the same sample.
Its hard to tell what to believe anymore - maybe they just give you a basic general idea whats going on ?
I guess for $20 if it helps even a little it will pay for itself.
If its more than 2.5 then I would not add any nutes.
Also if your confident the soil PH is at the low end - a light top dress of powdered lime will bring the soil PH up some to a slightly better spot.
Dorje - How long have you been using these test kits ?
Ive seen them but never gave it a chance but you do make it sound interesting.
Im sure its not rocket science but please add any advanced tips that you may have picked up ?
* I did some surfing about the kits & there are ALOT of mixed reviews - quite a few bad ones where people would send off the soil for a pro test & compare that with a home test. There seemed to be a large difference between the separate tests on the same sample.
Its hard to tell what to believe anymore - maybe they just give you a basic general idea whats going on ?
I guess for $20 if it helps even a little it will pay for itself.
FinestKind
Member
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the Si and it's effect on pH! I happen to have a quart of Pro-Tekt lying around as well... thanks for the reminder.
Tactical Farmer
Member
Did a light topdressabout 2 weeks ago with some of that DE / Silica powder due to a funus knat infestation which seems to have helped with the bugs but wow it really had a positive affect on the plants overall stalk & branch strength.
There ALOT stiffer & hard to bend - its like they got armor skin, HUGE difference, hard to explain & believe.
There ALOT stiffer & hard to bend - its like they got armor skin, HUGE difference, hard to explain & believe.
After a very hot, hard summer grow, this crop just now in flower, (pro mix with goodies)has been watered 6-8 times with silica blast liquid added. The only brand the hydro shop had that day, no preference implied. But anyway the plants are being trained in a scrog grow and the stems are real hard and stiff. Gotta be the silica......scrappy
FinestKind
Member
I've actually read a lot about the positive benefits of silica additives- resistance to bugs and bad fungii, stronger branches and therefore bigger buds- all for a pretty cheap additive!
I usually add it to my mix; this time, I decided to go with an ultra "stripped down" version, (i.e. just the EJ products- Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, Micro and some molasses) to try and sort out where my deficiencies and/or overfeedings are happening.
And, on top of all of that, it does raise the pH.
