Sunleaves Piece Coir

[ShroomDr]

This is the chunky stuff!

I just bought another block, and i took some readings, that im glad to document here.

First off, the block expands probably about 6X. The packaging says 9X, but I'm skeptical

I took the block and put it into a large tub. The tub has a hole in the bottom, but the hole does not release water as fast as i can fill the tub. I would fill the tub to the point that i could stir the coco and water mix, like a slurry. Stirring produced bubbles/foam to form on the top, im sure it was some type of salts, so I recommend stirring.

My tap water pH 7.15 and .496ec

The first time the tub was full, the ec reading was 1.440ec. I let the tub basically empty, and then started another rinse. When the tub was full for the second time, i had .978ec. The third time full, it was down to .643ec, and the last time, it was .552ec, with a 6.0pH.

Im will take a sample size portion tomorrow, and run it though my smaller, diy, five gallon bucket strainer, to check again, but im pretty sure it is all done.

Ive never used the loose piece coir they sell, i hope it is pre washed. This shit has taken me a couple hours to wash. Its not difficult, it just takes time to fill and empty the reservoir 4+ times.

 

[aeric]

Thanks for that, I'm using the same. So let me get this straight...you're basically soaking then draining, or filling up to the point of 'slurry' and it drains slowly? How are you measuring the EC? Via the Canna soak method or measuring runoff?

 

[ShroomDr]

im measuring the ec with my Hanna combo pH ec meter model 98129 or something like that.

Im not familiar with the 'canna soak method'. But soaking is pretty self explanatory, so im sure my technique cant be that much different.

Soak until the coir is fully expanded. Cover completely with water.
empty and repeat 4 or 5 times. (I think sirring helps to release the salts.)

I ended up taking 4 5Gal buckets, and drilling 1/4" holes in the bottom (4 buckets almost full = one block). I then put in a piece of fiberglass screen (same material used with 'screen doors') on the bottom. Ive got a roll of coco mat, that i plan on using for the bottom of my grow containers, but because i had the screen just sitting here unused, i used the flexible screen.

There's no reason i couldn't have used the DIY bucket strainer to wash the coco, hell it probably would have been easier working with the 4 lighter buckets, than the one heavy tub.

--
--

This is actually the second time ive expanded one of those blocks. I think i remember the first block's first ec reading, was something like 3.2 or 2.8. This makes me think the coir is washed unevenly. That is one reason i would like to know about the loose piece coir.

Would anyone with experience with this piece coir, and another brand/style, care to compare and contrast the two products? I assumed when i saw people adding perlite to their coir, that chunkier coir would probably allow better aeration. I still added the perlite 50/50 to the coir, but my newer mixes have been straight coir, and i think that is best with this product.

did i miss anything? i bought my first sack in 4 or 5 weeks, so im hella stoned. Ive still got 4 weeks left, until my first harvest in 5 months.

 

[clowntown]

I got the Down to Earth's Coconut Husk Chip brick, which from my research appears to be identical to the Sunleaves Piece Coir. If you search around the 'net, you'll see identical looking packages all from the same / similar origin (Sri Lanka) and exact same packaging material, dimensions and weights. This leads me to believe that the source supplier is selling these wholesale to Sunleaves (and Down to Earth, as well as many other companies), who simply slaps their label on it.

So I hope I'm talking about the same, identical product as you, although branded / labeled differently.

I got a large brick (I think 4.5kg, I forgot) of this stuff to experiment with, but I absolutely hated the washing process. This is after having used Canna's bagged loose coco, which is extremely easy to deal with. I've used that Canna Coco right out of the bag without rinsing plenty of times, with various uses ranging from cloning medium (works great!), to seed germination, to just general all purpose growing everywhere. Never ever had a problem with high salts, and never had problems with over-watering either. (I thought I had an over-watering issue on one plant, but it turned out to be a over-ferting problem.)

Again the primary reason I got this was to experiment, because I've read that this type of medium allows more air to the root zone, can promote healthier root development, and allows you to use a more aggressive feeding style. Supposedly. But I haven't had a chance to do that yet as I don't really have identical clones and a good side-by-side environment to run yet.

But so far, I'm extremely happy with my bagged Canna Coco (in 50L bags, $18 out the door). I know you can get it cheaper, but the Down to Earth chip brick cost me $17 from a different store than my usual (and thus crappy prices w/ no discount) and the half block that I expanded seemed to indicate that it would fill only a little more volume than a 50L sack of Canna Coco.

So to me, unless this stuff works wonders and miracles over the Canna Coco, it's not worth the trouble at all.

Another thing that concerns me is the possibility of the dry bricks not containing trichoderma, from having been dried out. Or is trichoderma something that can naturally form again even from dried coco, once wet? The bagged Canna Coco always comes nice and moist (not wet), and Canna claims it contains trichoderma. I've never seen any mention of trichoderma on any of these other dry brick brands.

I know none of this really addressed any of your questions, but this is where I am in seeking out the differences between the various types of coco medium: still lost, clueless and confused. Hope to see more responses, especially from folks who have used both in very similar environments where conclusive results can be drawn. Rather than, say, "I use brand XYZ and it works great". Works great? Compared to ...? I don't know, I've only really used Canna.

 

[aeric]

Another thing that concerns me is the possibility of the dry bricks not containing trichoderma, from having been dried out. Or is trichoderma something that can naturally form again even from dried coco, once wet?

I have wondered the same thing. I always assumed that coco was just a natural breeding ground for the stuff, but once it's gone, is it truly gone? Many innoculants are sold dry though, so dryness does not equate to deadness in the beneficial bacteria world, more than that I don't know. It's also relevant that bleachy, non-aged/aerated water has the potential to kill beneficials like Trichoderma. I have a master res now where weeks worth of plain water sits before ever getting mixed because of that. The organic forum probably has the answer for all this.

I've used Botanicare, B'cuzz (very similar to Canna in being expanded, rinsed, charged buffered and fine texture) Some generic brands from the same supplier in Sri Lanka, and the chunky Sunleaves, all with the same clones. It seems that only Canna (hearsay) and B'cuzz are truly ready straight out of the bag. The rest need that torturous rinse and buffer treatment. Botanicare is halfway between. Flushing agents like Flora Kleen help immensely. Soaking with Calmag at the end will help also. They all 'work great' eventually, meaning after a few weeks of watering if you didn't flush/buffer them properly to begin with. But IMO texture is immensely important to long term use. Finer texture compacts too much for my taste in the constant gravitational pull of drip irrigation, and is that much more likely to harbor algea and mold. Unfortunately as mentioned the finest ones are also the best treated and ready to go out of the bag....aaargh.

 

[aeric]

forgot to say:

With the Sunleaves chunks I've been getting fungus Gnats, every time. Now I add BTI to the first watering.

 

[ShroomDr]

well, after reading this last post, and clowntown's about trichoderma, i decided to do one more watering.

This time, i used RO water, i added Hygrozyme (10ml/Gal), a BTi inoculant (Safer Caterpillar Killer, 5ml/Gal), and AN Voodoo Juice (25ml/Gal).

I too have had fungus Gnats in this coir, so i figured the BTi would be a good start. Im my experience, the coir never fully dries out, so adding the voodoo juice (Paenibacillus, and 4 other Bacillus species; rhizobacteria FTW), and the BTi should create quite the rhizosphere.

I think AN's Tarantula has trichoderma, but i dont have that product. AN's site says the voodoo juice is very stable, and thats good, cause ive had this bottle for close to a year.

EDIT Safer Caterpillar Killer is a BTk product, not BTi. It does nothing for the gnats.

 

[Nast]

Sorry for going a bit OT(but you know me, it's getting to be my thing)
What kinda place do you get your cocos?
A regular botanical shop/garden or at a hydro shop?(I haven't got a hydro shop in my location)

So far I've been buying it mailorder but the shipping is quite expensive...

 

[clowntown]

Not that I've really been looking hard for it outside hydro shops, but I've never seen coco grow medium at Home Depot.

I buy mine at hydro shops, locally. Around here, there are many brands and types to choose from. But not all shops necessarily carry all brands, even the (apparently) popular ones like Canna's. I hear Canna Coco isn't easily available too far outside the "grow meccas" (for example, California), and I'm guessing it has a lot to do with transportation costs compared to compressed, dried bricks.

Canna's is moist and uncompressed, meaning heavier and bulkier to transport, meaning more expensive at the end to both the retailer and of course to the end user. I think this is also the case with Atami's B'Cuzz Coco (also bagged loose flakes), although I've never handled it before.

If you have to mail order, I think the most economical choice is the dry bricked version... and re-using the medium would make a lot more sense as well.

 

[ShroomDr]

here, stateside, a lot of pet stores sell 'reptile bedding' that is coir. Ive seen it at two different pet stores.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Maybe it was a bad batch, but I picked up two blocks of this and it's been a disaster.

I rinsed before planting down to 0.2 EC, which is the level of the tap water. It was used in several different applications, including being pre-charged.

Every plant that it's touched has stopped growing and shown almost immediate nitrogen drawdown. This has been very frustrating.

 

[Dr.NO]

I just got the regular version of the Sunleaves brand Coco Coir, but haven't started using it yet. I'll post my findings when I do. I recently used the Sunleaves brand starter plugs which are also made of coco and they work great.

 

[Graham Purwatt]

i use the large block of the sunleaves piece coir and 2 small bricks of the classic for my mix in hempy buckets and it has worked great for me,my plants have all improved since i switched to coco a year ago and sunleaves is all i've used.never measured the ph or ec or anything though.it goes into a large tote,filled with water until it all loosens,mixed up,into pillow cases and flushed until it runs clear.there is a lot of salt and sand in it and i always get the nats but it works great and in a year the nats just do whatever they do and nothing seems to suffer for it.

 

[stonedar]

hi, as it says on the package Sunleaves coir requires rinse before use. expand the coir. then runs some water through it til the ppm comes down to about the same as your tap water.
if you have FinalFlush, Clearex, Florakleen or any other flushing agent you can speed the flushing up considerably.
then charge your coir with some pH 5.8 or so water & your grow or bloom nutes at low strength and some Calmag/MagiCal.
now your coir is ready to use.
I do this with ANY compressed coir. it's not just Sunleaves. 90% of it comes from 2 or 3 companies in Sri Lanka.

I posted this incase any coir noobs read this, it will save us reading about how they hate this or that coir.

 

[ShroomDr]

I quit using this sunleaves junk years ago. I dont think the 'piece coir' hasnt finished breaking down, because it would always cause my seedlings, and my finishing plants to burn.

Ive used Phase 1 (made by the makers of the ezcloner), Bio Bizz, and Botanicare Coco, and all are FAR FAR FAR superior to this sunleaves garbage.

Sunleaves also makes garbage 'coco' mats, GH makes the better quality shit.

 

[Carl Carlson]

hi, as it says on the package Sunleaves coir requires rinse before use. expand the coir. then runs some water through it til the ppm comes down to about the same as your tap water.
if you have FinalFlush, Clearex, Florakleen or any other flushing agent you can speed the flushing up considerably.
then charge your coir with some pH 5.8 or so water & your grow or bloom nutes at low strength and some Calmag/MagiCal.
now your coir is ready to use.
I do this with ANY compressed coir. it's not just Sunleaves. 90% of it comes from 2 or 3 companies in Sri Lanka.

I posted this incase any coir noobs read this, it will save us reading about how they hate this or that coir.

Thanks. As it says in my post, the coir was rinsed after expanding, down to EC 0.2.

 

[ShroomDr]

Carl, you seem to be the experimenting type, you should run a side by side with another coir product.

I threw that 'piece coir' bullshit out as a mulch for my garden, and that shit didnt break down completely for over 2 years. Hell, i bet i could walk outside right now and kick the top layer of my garden and see those chunks. Like i said, i think it causes lock out problems during rooting and late flower.

 

[Carl Carlson]

no way, I'll never buy that brand again.

And since you mentioned mulch, I have to agree, that's what it resembles.

 

[ShroomDr]

oh... good... i must have read that wrong. I thought you said you were using it. Its (was) garbage, and i would be very suprised if this substate does better than any other coco.

Three year old coco thread FTW.