Redesign of my 4x8 tent...HELP!! :D

[Super.Seeds]

Hello fellow ICMAGers! I need your help. I want to change around my room and make it the most efficient, best-producing, room for its size. I have it dialed for the most part aside from the fact that my ducting is too small (4") and my portable acs rape my tent and suck the walls in...getting close to a gpw already but I know I can improve!!

I currently run:
-4x8 growlab GL145L
-2x 2x4 E&F trays (4" rockwool in 2 gallon pots w/ canna coco)...Sometimes 2 plants per 2 gallon perfect pot.
-8x 2 gallon DWC pots on the side powered with alita al-15a pump
-2x600 lumatek ballasts
-2x super large horizontal reflector with 4" insulated ducting
-2x265 cfm4" fans on either side of the tent
-Soleus CFM-40 dehuey
-Crappy 10000k btu portable ac
-cap 2-burner co2 generator w/ electronic ignition and fuzzy logic monitor/controller


I'm thinking about 2 1000 watters or 3 750 watters instead of 2 600s...but I have a million questions!

-Are quantum digis the best right now? They are orange and real nice looking so I hope they rock. lol They say they are the only ballasts that are FCC compliant whatever that means (i heard people were getting busted with digital ballasts being detected or something).
-Bare bulbs or reflectors?...If reflectors, blockbuster is a good one? or which? I don't think the SS2 will fill the 4x8 as well as the BB.
-If reflectors, 6" or 8" ducting??...seems pretty obvious that 8" would be better but I have to ask...EDIT: does my tent even have 8" ducting holes...LOL I will check asap.
-What size mini split for the tent with a c02 generator and 2 1000 watters and a dehuey?
-Why do people suggest cutting a hole in the wall and using a window unit?...that would surely look awful, destory the tent, and ruin the crappy seal they provide...
-Will I even need a dehumidifer with a split ac? (dont they suck moisture from the air?)...been looking at the mitsubushi Mr. Slims.
-What about three 750 watters if doing bare bulb?!?! I doubt the tent will support 3 lights with reflectors. It's already sitting lower than the veg tent which is also a 4x8...I'm thinking about making a stand for the co2 burner since its a heavy hunk o steel.
-Some people have been telling me to switch back to a CO2 tank instead of a burner for my tent...I will think about this, but I thought I was upgrading when I switched from my CO2 bottle to this generator...Also its easier to get propane than Co2 tanks..


I just want to keep the same area of size but do the best I can for it. I'm willing to spend whatever it takes this go around as I hope this will be my last time modding the room (yeah right! lol). I figure its going to be around 3,000 dollars to get a split ac and new lights....Let me know what you all think. What do you do for your 4x8 tents? I'm excited to jump from 1200 watts to 2000 or 2250! Better penetration and fatter nuggets!!

Thank you all for taking your time to help me out...I'm 3 years into this great hobby but still making mistakes! And they are costly damnit!

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

OK...I'm sorry. At one time I made a post about cooling the tent with 2 600s but I decided to upgrade the lights while upgrading the AC and ducting. It's a lot for you to read at once and I know most of you are medicating while reading this so I'll keep this next post short.

If no one tells me otherwise I am going to order:
-2 1000W Lumatek ballasts
-2 Super Sun 2 Reflectors (6")
-1 Vortex 8" Fan
-8"-6" reducer
-Fan Speed Controller


***I will put the fan at the end of the two lights, outside the tent, pulling the hot air and ducting to outside.*** PLEASE correct this if its wrong. I chose an 8" fan because I want to really be able to move the air if needed (2 1000s in a tent is gonna pack some heat!).

I still have no idea what size in BTUS i need for the spilt AC...Ideas? The HEAT of 2 1000s, 2 burner CO2 Generator and possibly a dehumidifier if still needed. What do you do? Even if you answer one of my questions with a solid answer you will be helping me greatly! No one like making mistakes that cost money!

SS

 

[Cannabean]

Hey SS, if you're getting 1kw's and an 8" fan, why dont you just get 8" hoods and not have to worry about ducting adapters. Remember those 8-6" reducers are going to limit airflow and cause noise, I thought you were trying to avoid that?

I read this thread when you first posted it but i was really high and thought I wasn't quite qualified to respond. but now Im sober and bored at work and since a similar hefty-text thread of mine is being passed over, Ill take a stab at yours, OP first then your other questions.

-I cant say whether quantum digis are the best but they are what I would have bought had I not purchased the CAP nextgens, the nextgens are noisy and after a year the fans began to sound like chainsaws...I like the lifetime warranty CAP, but how am I supposed to send back a ballast and wait 3 weeks for it to get fixed? sell me hassle-free shit to begin with.
-it sounds like you want reflectors, not bare bulbs, in your setup that is.
-with 1k I would go 8" reflectors, since you are getting an 8" fan, then 8" reflectors hands down. go with magnum xxxl 8 if you have the money.
-Not sure what size mini split because I'm going portable AC until I have the money, but a 9k-11k btu should work fine since you have proper air cooled hoods, mitsubishi has a 9kbtu 23 SEER (amazing!!!) minisplit for $1700-(0.3*1700) = the price after govt rebate = amazing deal for a mini split.
- if you're in a tent I wouldn't cut a hole in the wall for a window unit, the people who suggest those are people who know the downsides of portables and don't have the money for a minisplit.
-most AC's dehumidify while they are cooling and most are not able to dehumidify as a stand alone operation, they have to be cooling to dehuey. since that is the case I wouldn't rely on the AC to keep your humidity in check, id get a dehuey as well, the Soleus cfm-40 should be fine for your size room.
-screw 750w and screw bare bulb, you have an almost dialed setup, don't go crazy with new setup just yet.
-my knowledge of co2 is limited but it sounds like if you have the initial money for a propane tank and co2 burner then those are more efficient/easier and less sketchy to refill, and last longer between refills. they are big and bulky though and the burner has to be in the room whereas a co2 tank can sit outside the room and pump in co2 via a drip line, better if you're strapped for space.

This is all from my planning to upgrade to a 5x10 tent and sealed room with mini split.

next post:
the heat of two 1kw's will be null since you're aircooling them on their own sealed line(if i understand correctly). With an 8" vortex and 8" hoods I bet the outside of the reflectors will be cold to the touch.
What is your ambient humidity where you live? will your dehuey have to run constantly to keep it at 50% rh?
Never used or seen a co2 burner in person so I cant comment on the heat those produce, sorry.
So now the required BTUs will depend on your ambient temps where you live. since you're running CO2, day temps can rise to 85° but night temps should still be around 70-75°. Think about your ambients compared to these target levels. If they are not very different then IMO a 9k minisplit will handle it fine. 11k if you're worried but you lose the amazing seer of the mr. slim if you go bigger than 9k (i think the 11k are 16 seer...?)

hope this helps...

 

[Cutty]

Add another light and maybe a mover.

That is 3K with a light rail 5.

 

[Super.Seeds]

Thank you Cannabean and Cutty!! I'm going to order within the next day but still have a few questions.

-Aren't 8" Magnum XXLs too big of a footprint for a 4x8 tent? and they are monstrosities that will likely cave my tent in...LOL Does anyone know the spread of the Super Sun 2's? Or can recommend another air cooler reflector?

-I have heard that 8" hoods aren't as good as 6" hoods for actually reflecting the light down. (due to the fact that they are an additional 2" taller, bulb is futher from reflector metal, and less reflection metal on most 8" hoods too if you look).

-Phantom or Lumatek 1000s? Guy at the local store highly recommended phantoms but also said lumateks are good (both made by hydrofarm). So I'm torn because I own lumatek 600s and know they are the shit but I'm also hearing good things about the Phantoms...HELP!

-Do you think an 8" vortex with The Speedster speed controller to a 8-6 reducer is overkill? I thought it was a good idea... If people think a 6" vortex is better speak up! its 449 CFM (100watts) vs 747 CFM(185watts)...If I don't need to be burning an additional 85 watts then I won't!

Order list as of now is:
-8" Vortex
-8 to 6 reducer
-Speedster Speed controller
-Phantom 1000W ballast x 2
-Super Sun 2 reflector x 2


How's it sound? I know I'm researching this to death but its important that I not f this up again.

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

Cutty,

Thats 3K in a 4x8? You are the man! Tell me how you have it rigged...all components of the system. Thanks!

SS

 

[vta]

-Phantom or Lumatek 1000s? Guy at the local store highly recommended phantoms but also said lumateks are good (both made by hydrofarm). So I'm torn because I own lumatek 600s and know they are the shit but I'm also hearing good things about the Phantoms...HELP!

Go with the Phantom!! I simply love mine...best ballast I have ever owned. 1st off it will extend the life of your bulbs...if your power goes out, when it comes back on these guys will re-fire properly.

Also you can hang them on the wall vertically. Other ballasts, due to their internal coating, will overheat or heat unevenly when hung vertically causing premature life expectancy of the ballast.

I got 2 1000w dimmable and picked them both up for $550

I might add that with that tent I would run 2 of these, one HPS and one MH in a Growzilla hood. If you do, you can thank me later

 

[vta]

-Do you think an 8" vortex with The Speedster speed controller to a 8-6 reducer is overkill? I thought it was a good idea... If people think a 6" vortex is better speak up! its 449 CFM (100watts) vs 747 CFM(185watts)...If I don't need to be burning an additional 85 watts then I won't!

Order list as of now is:
-8" Vortex
-8 to 6 reducer
-Speedster Speed controller
-Phantom 1000W ballast x 2
-Super Sun 2 reflector x 2


How's it sound? I know I'm researching this to death but its important that I not f this up again.

SS

Also...I recently swapped out some old Vortex for some new Active Air 8" fans. They are only $100 and they work great...I mean really well! Save some money. You can get them cheap at plant lighting hydroponics. After running these...I see no need to spend the extra cash on Vortex...I don't see any advantage.

 

[Super.Seeds]

vta,

Thanks for the advice!! Glad you like the Phantom ballast...Have you owned a lumatek also? Would a growzilla hood throw a 4x8 light pattern? I'm guessing no, since the bulbs are next to each other and I don't think any hood gives that wide of a pattern. I figured 2 hoods would be better because it would give two 4x4 light patterns. Ya dig?

As for the fan...I'm ok with getting either one. It's good to hear that you like the active air one you have. Can you tell if its louder than the vortex? There was a thread with a poll about fans on here somewhere and people were riding the vortex jock real hard so that's how I got sold on them...Plus they have a 10 year warranty!

Excited to be upgrading soon! MORE LIGHT!!

SS

 

[argoagro]

 

[Quitters]

I figured 2 hoods would be better because it would give two 4x4 light patterns

Do you already own the SS2's?

Ive owned several for sometime and as great as they are their not the best choice for the bigger 4x4 footprint. another problem with the SS2's are that the aerodynamic junction box holding the bulb is mounted inside the air port blocking alot of its 6" air flowing capabilities ! forget moving an 8" fans air > maybe all of a 4 inchers !!


I'd go With:

8" Vortex with a Speedster speed controller

2-8" Blockbuster Reflector << they were specifically engineered for a square, intense 4' x 4' light pattern

2-1000 watt Quantums <THEIR PROVEN> failure rate wise vs all the newer digital ballast with no long term track records

 

[vta]

vta,

I figured 2 hoods would be better because it would give two 4x4 light patterns. Ya dig?

As for the fan...I'm ok with getting either one. It's good to hear that you like the active air one you have. Can you tell if its louder than the vortex?

I figured you could use a mover, so you could give the whole area a mixed spectrum. My plants dig it.

I was using 6" Vortex and now 8" AA. They are louder but they are bigger...who knows maybe the Vortex is quieter...but for me it's fine and stealth enough. The price was right.

 

[Super.Seeds]

I own Super Sun 1's with 4" ducts and Super Large Horizontals with 4" also...Looking into the blockbuster reflectors now...25.5"x25.5" is big but it does say that its meant for a 4x4 pattern which excites me!...The guy at the local hydro store said the BBs are HUGE and I don't need it(shouldnt listen to him lol). you're right about the airflow being blocked on the SS2 and the blockbusters look SICK!! Does anyone use the Yieldmaster Classic II with gasketed tempered glass area to keep the seal tight? I usually just use foil tape around the edges...This order is going down asap! I'm leaning towards those Blockbusters! You guys have really been a great help giving me pointers and advice!!

At this point in time I have heard so much talk about the ballasts that my head is spinning. Everyone LOVES what they own. I've heard claims that Quantums and Lumateks give off RF interference and have gotten people busted...BS or not, it scares me. I guess slight Rf interference happens with all digi ballasts but idk. I have also heard that the issue has been addressed.

So is it Quantum (pretty orange), Phantom (sleek black), or the Lumatek (da purps!) FTW?!?!? I think I will just get one of each and do 3K! Jk...It just seems that the Phantoms are the latest and great creation (with most recent technology). Correct me if I'm wrong please. Excited for my new project to get under way!

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

for a 4x8:
-6" Magnum XXL x 2
OR
-6" Blockbuster x 2
OR
Cool Sun x 2

The blockbuster does advertise a perfect 4x4 so I am leaning that way but I just got done reading a thread about how people are in LOVE with their Magnums...Too many major decisions need to be made all at once here! I think I need to burn one and go over it all again for the 1000th time lol. Thanks again to anyone who has helped me with advice and I'd appreciate more!

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

As for bulbs I'm looking at
-1000W Sunmaster Super HPS Deluxe Bulb (150,000 lumens) 2100K
-1000W Agrosun Super Red Sodium Bulb (146,000 lumens) 2050K

I've used both and couldn't really tell a difference but the agrosun is around 15 bucks more...Hmm

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

316 views and 7 replies?! Wow....I guess I'm on my own here. Thanks again to those who replied and +rep FOR SURE!


EDIT: I rated so many posts helpful that it said I can't rate any more today! Thanks people!!

SS

 

[Cannabean]

hi SS,
about the bulbs, have you looked at C.A.P.'s new bulb? Has a nice spectrum and good lumen output.http://www.randmsupply.com/images/link/DigiluxSpecSheet.pdf

 

[Super.Seeds]

Cannabean, I did look at caps bulb...Is it called EIKO? Lumatek also has a bulb thats made for digi ballasts and has a PAR rating of 358 which I guess is ideal? With so many options I figured I'd go with with the reddest spectrum and highest lumen output...What are you using right now?

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

Order List:
-2 Lumatek 1000W Ballasts (went with what I know works)
-2 Blockbuster Hoods 6"
-2 Sunmaster bulbs
-1 Vortex 6" fan (decided 8" fan reduced to 6" on a speedster was overkill)

If the fan is loud I will get a silencer/muffler before it exits...Anyone have experience with duct mufflers? Says they don't restrict airflow but idk. Thanks again for the help guys!

SS

 

[Super.Seeds]

New list!

-2 Lumatek 1000W Ballasts
-2 Sunmaster bulbs
-2 Blockbuster Hoods 8"
-1 Vortex 8"
-Speedster speed controller

People are really convincing me that there is very little difference in size between the 6" and 8" hoods and that if I want to move more air 8" is much better...So that is where I stand as of right now. So over this! lol I've definitely been over-thinking this but its because I don't want to make the mistake of buying the wrong stuff again!! I think this is my final list unless someone wants to chime in and object!

When I run the 8" fan at 75 percent will the fan also run less wattage? Vortex 8" fan is 185 watts...if I run it at 75% will it be using 138 watts? I've also been seeing a lot of people with can fans and not vortexs lately...is it because of price or do you relaly like ur can fans more than vortexs? Who has used both? Thanks!

SS