A Change of Heart: Prop 19

[Bigrick31]

Prop 19 opens the door wide open for big business. The people making money off of the sales of medical marijuana are extremely small time in comparison to the corperate giants that will dominate the market after 19 passes.

.Point being, there is enough grey area in this law where i dont believe it will hurt the current laws and will most likely help by taking the focus off medical marijuana.

You assume that the grey are in this propositions will only benefit you however you forget how quickly a big pocket book can persuade others to see grey areas in their favor. For example it is a grey area weather or not this bill will effect prop 215 but you would risk giving up those rights at the chance of something better again a "chance" there are no certainties as nothing in that bill is black and white. Ive read through the bill and ive read arguments for and against it the most heard argument for it is that we will get this bill passed and then amend it throughout the years until its a suitable bill for all marijuana users. Those people ignore the fact that with the minimal freedoms that this bill does give to the people it also takes plenty away and what makes you think that someone for the other team isnt hoping we pass this bill so that they can amend it for what suits their interests.

Someone answer me this whats the rush to get this bill passed? Anyone in CA who want to legally (under state law) Smoke marijuana can get their card by simply going to a doctor and saying I have insomnia if the prescribe sleeping pills all you ahve to say is sleeping pills give me a hang over in the morning I want a more natural substance that will give me the rest I want without a hangover in the morning and you will get your medical marijuana card. People argue "I dont want to pay the $135 or however much it is to get my card." Well guess what if you wanted any medicine and didnt have medical coverage your medicine would cost a lot more than youd want to pay for it so rather than pass a BS proposition why dont we get medical insurance companies to accept marijuana as medicine and pay for our pot? We can work out a better bill in the coming years and work to pass it otherwise all we are getting with prop 19 are uncertainties that may or may not play out in our best interests in the coming years we are after all fighting against people who have more money and are more well connected than we are so how can you say we would even have a hope of amending anything in this bill if someone more rich and powerful dosnt want it to happen.

I want marijuana legal for everyone.
I want big business and government out of the picture (what has big business done thats so great I always hear the argument of free market well whats so great about a free market that isnt free when competitors anrt playing on an even playing field it most certainly hanst worked out in the best interests of the american people so why do we continue to stand by it?

Marijuana needs to be decriminalized and an age limit for recreational consumption set and that is it! Anything else and greed will ruin this just as it has everything else

 

[Metalhead419]

How about some proof from you? Its a pretty broad statement to say the only people that don't want it legalized are the people making money.

I think until we have something nationwide we are just wasting out time. The US government is already planning on suing the state of California if this passes, meaning it won't go into effect anyways. Just more tax dollars pissed down the drain. It must be really profitable to be a lawyer these days, they sure are busy all the time.

I think most of the people that want this passed are people that are not from Cali. They believe it will set some sort of precedent for it to be "legalized" where they are from.

 

[Bigrick31]

The anti 19 crowd is either delusional or decietful to make an argument that 19 is worst than what is currently in place.

19 only makes things better while setting up a platform to show the rest of the world that marijuana can be "legalized" without causing the end of times.

Except it dosnt!

http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/

A few examples for those who choose not to read the link

Myth #2: The initiative will keep young adults out of jail for using marijuana.
Fact: This initiative would put more young people in jail for pot. If it becomes law, any adult 21 or over who passes a joint to another adult aged 18-20 would face six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. [8] (NORML's Web site reports that the current penalty for a gift of marijuana of 1 oz. or less is a $100 fine.[9])

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
Fact: Not quite. This allotment is per property, not per person. If you share a residence with other people, you’ll be sharing a 5’x5’ grow space, as well. Even if you own multiple acres that many people live on, if it is considered one parcel, the space restriction of 5’x5’ (3-6 plants) will still apply. [11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
Fact: Not quite. This allotment is per property, not per person. If you share a residence with other people, you’ll be sharing a 5’x5’ grow space, as well. Even if you own multiple acres that many people live on, if it is considered one parcel, the space restriction of 5’x5’ (3-6 plants) will still apply. [11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

Myth #5: Adults 21 and over will be able to possess up to one ounce of marijuana without penalty.
Fact: Perhaps the most ironic piece of the puzzle is that the initiative to legalize marijuana actually makes it illegal to possess marijuana if it was purchased anywhere other than the very few licensed dispensaries in the state.[12] So if this initiative passes, better not get caught carrying marijuana you bought off your neighbor, your current dealer, or at a party; you could get arrested. And if you do buy from a licensed dispensary, better keep your receipts, because the burden of proof will be on you. Not only is this inconvenient, but it sets the industry up to be monopolized.

What’s more, if your city decides not to tax cannabis, then buying and selling marijuana in the city limits would remain illegal. You would be permitted to possess and consume marijuana, but you would be required to travel to another city that taxes cannabis to buy it.[13] This is a move towards decreased, not increased, access. And since the initiative is so ambiguous that cities are destined to be tied up in a legal quagmire over how to interpret it, many local governments might find it simpler just to opt-out and send its citizens elsewhere. Indeed, 129 cities did just that with medical marijuana, banning it outright, while still others have established moratoriums against dispensaries. In fact, of the entire state, only the city of Oakland has endorsed the initiative. A vote for the initiative will therefore not ensure local access to purchase marijuana legally.

 

[Bigrick31]

How about some proof from you? Its a pretty broad statement to say the only people that don't want it legalized are the people making money.

I think until we have something nationwide we are just wasting out time. The US government is already planning on suing the state of California if this passes, meaning it won't go into effect anyways. Just more tax dollars pissed down the drain. It must be really profitable to be a lawyer these days, they sure are busy all the time.

I think most of the people that want this passed are people that are not from Cali. They believe it will set some sort of precedent for it to be "legalized" where they are from.

I never said that "Only" people who want it passed are out to make money Im simply stating the effects this bill will have on CA. If you put a law into effect that has the possibility to be abused someone will abuse it. Heck everyone through the federal reserve system was a good idea and the bill that passed before the hundreds of amendments was a good bill but not anymore and look at how bad the federal reserve has done since its inception. Whats the latest and greatest way to make a ton of cash selling marijuana why would we want to vote yes on a bill that gives government and big business the possibility to to control the marijuana market when its been proven throughout history that government and big business are nothing more than greedy capitalists who would sell out their own country just to make a couple bucks. History is repeating its self its just the topic of debate that has changed. Im not saying there is any proof that this whole thing will go south but given the track record of the USA im asking why give them the ability to do so? Its like giving a coke addict a kilo of coke and asking him not to do any the temptation is too great why get this into law so fast why not get something thats fool proof before we surrender our freedoms to the almighty dollar.

 

[Cruzin]

Should the government be allowed to throw someone in jail for a joint?

Should the government be allowed to throw someone in jail for a joint?

prop 19 would not of done anything for me and my situation. dont get it confused homeboy, your now trying to say that prop 19 would of helped my medical defense? it gets weirder and weirder, the shit you guys come up with.......

but, got a nice judgment coming my way......

Krunch,

I think that from the perspective of a medical patient/caregiver/collective member/ect... the upside is that the courts will be backlogged with new legal marijuana issues and will not be able to deal with medical users. Not saying its going to fix all situations, hopefully it will tip the scales even more further in the direction of medical oriented cases. If you look at the Police Unions are saying, they are absolutely anticipating this.

This argument isn't really isnt about "me" and "my" situations. There is a bigger picture. I think we will come to find that the overall structure of how this proposition is written to Prop 215 are really not that different. Its a proposition, a set of guidelines for our local governments to interpret.

The biggest reason I don't think that Prop 19 will hurt Medical growers is because of its City/County level regulations like Prop 215. Proposition 19 would be so obscurely regulated that towns could technically pass whatever they want (usual suspects to act the same as they do under 215). This is also the reason I think it will be difficult for big business to take over the industry. That kind of regulation wont make it past the legal department at Marlborough, Budweiser, or whoever else. We shall see,

 

[Zen Master]

isnt it still gonna be illegal federally if 19 passes?

yeah so it being legal in the state wont change things a bit, just a different shape badge you get to see through the peephole. People will still get victimized and harassed.

 

[SCF]

Prop 19 opens the door wide open for big business. The people making money off of the sales of medical marijuana are extremely small time in comparison to the corperate giants that will dominate the market after 19 passes.



You assume that the grey are in this propositions will only benefit you however you forget how quickly a big pocket book can persuade others to see grey areas in their favor. For example it is a grey area weather or not this bill will effect prop 215 but you would risk giving up those rights at the chance of something better again a "chance" there are no certainties as nothing in that bill is black and white. Ive read through the bill and ive read arguments for and against it the most heard argument for it is that we will get this bill passed and then amend it throughout the years until its a suitable bill for all marijuana users. Those people ignore the fact that with the minimal freedoms that this bill does give to the people it also takes plenty away and what makes you think that someone for the other team isnt hoping we pass this bill so that they can amend it for what suits their interests.

Someone answer me this whats the rush to get this bill passed? Anyone in CA who want to legally (under state law) Smoke marijuana can get their card by simply going to a doctor and saying I have insomnia if the prescribe sleeping pills all you ahve to say is sleeping pills give me a hang over in the morning I want a more natural substance that will give me the rest I want without a hangover in the morning and you will get your medical marijuana card. People argue "I dont want to pay the $135 or however much it is to get my card." Well guess what if you wanted any medicine and didnt have medical coverage your medicine would cost a lot more than youd want to pay for it so rather than pass a BS proposition why dont we get medical insurance companies to accept marijuana as medicine and pay for our pot? We can work out a better bill in the coming years and work to pass it otherwise all we are getting with prop 19 are uncertainties that may or may not play out in our best interests in the coming years we are after all fighting against people who have more money and are more well connected than we are so how can you say we would even have a hope of amending anything in this bill if someone more rich and powerful dosnt want it to happen.

I want marijuana legal for everyone.
I want big business and government out of the picture (what has big business done thats so great I always hear the argument of free market well whats so great about a free market that isnt free when competitors anrt playing on an even playing field it most certainly hanst worked out in the best interests of the american people so why do we continue to stand by it?

Marijuana needs to be decriminalized and an age limit for recreational consumption set and that is it! Anything else and greed will ruin this just as it has everything else

Government is already in the picture. where do you think they make there money? See those Helecopters flying? funded by the war on drugs, with it being legal. Cuts police stations funding big time!!!!!!

And there is NO GREY AREA to medical marijuana. This is NOT an amendment, but a whole SEPERATE thing to vote on.. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROP 215. so lets get that straight. No where in that bill does it mention any type of ammendment to prop 215.

The people who are making billions off of medical marijuana, well they need to do it like any other corperation. CONSIDERING it as it being recreational. i see nothing wrong with the bill, comparative to drinking booze!!!

And about insurance companies. Workmans comp paid for my pot. and thats government ran!!! Blue Cross has paid for my Medical Marijuana, and my marinol, for only my deductable of 25 bucks. So i dont know what ur saying.

Even insurance, home owner insurance covers fires for grow equipment etc if ur a med patient...


more to come......

 

[Bigrick31]

Also people will be setting themselves up to get raided by the DEA. Right now in CA if someone had their medical card they can sell pot under a number of different business licences one of those being retail. Under this business licence you can pay your state and federal taxs on the money you made selling marijuana (or were being reimbursed for)

Once a number of marijuana only taxs start getting slapped onto the sale of marijuana you will have to claim this on your taxs which means when filing your federal taxs you will have to admit to the federal government that you sold marijuana for a profit. So if prop 19 says I can only buy my pot from licensed places and those licensed places have to tell the federal government that they sell pot what do you suppose will happen to the places we have to buy are pot from my guess is they will be shut down either for the illegal sales of marijuana or tax evasion. There are more consequences than what appears to be on the surface of this bill

 

[Bigrick31]

And there is NO GREY AREA to medical marijuana. This is NOT an amendment, but a whole SEPERATE thing to vote on.. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROP 215. so lets get that straight. No where in that bill does it mention any type of ammendment to prop 215.

The people who are making billions off of medical marijuana, well they need to do it like any other corperation. CONSIDERING it as it being recreational. i see nothing wrong with the bill, comparative to drinking booze!!!

And about insurance companies. Workmans comp paid for my pot. and thats government ran!!! Blue Cross has paid for my Medical Marijuana, and my marinol, for only my deductable of 25 bucks. So i dont know what ur saying.

Even insurance, home owner insurance covers fires for grow equipment etc if ur a med patient...


more to come......

There are plenty of gray areas!
entire article can be found here :http://www.420magazine.com/forums/i...persede-amend-its-medical-marijuana-laws.html

Section C, Intents, has two items.

Item 1 is a list of the laws Prop. 19 is "intended to limit the application and enforcement of". The inclusion of the phrase "including but not limited to the following, whether now existing or adopted in the future" opens the door for the argument to be made that Prop. 19 may (and most likely will) be interpreted to "limit" the "application and enforcement" of the now existing medical marijuana laws.

This interpretation is reinforced by Item 2 under this section, a list of state laws Prop. 19 "is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of".

Note that Item 2 is not open-ended. There is no "including but not limited to" modifier for this Item.

Conspicuously absent from either list are California's medical marijuana laws: Health & Safety Code Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7-11362.9.

These mentions and omissions occur in the 'preamble' of the initiative, titled Findings, Intent and Purposes. Concerns have been expressed regarding how legally binding these sections are and that nowhere in the sections to be added to California's legal code is there any mention of medical marijuana or any exemption for medical marijuana patients and providers.

Exploiting pain and suffering

Nowhere does the initiative exempt medical marijuana cultivators or distributors from the tax.

Proponents of Prop. 19 often argue that everything is taxed. This is not true. Illinois is the only state that taxes prescription pharmaceuticals, and that tax is 1%.

Proponents of Prop. 19 claim they want to tax and regulate marijuana like alcohol. It costs $450 to license a pharmacy in California and between $340-$580 to license a retail alcohol establishment. Long Beach claims 85 medical marijuana dispensaries and charges $14,742 for a license. Oakland has a limit of 4 dispensaries and charges them $30,000 for a license.

Im glad your insurance company pays for your weed but mine does not. I wasnt hurt at work either so workmans comp wont help me I was in my car stopped on a highway when a large suv hit me at 40mph from the rear and fractured my lower spine im 24 and get to live with back pain for the rest of my life because the alternative is surgery and limited mobility my fiance has migraines so bad that we often have to take her to the ER for a shot because nothing else will help her and under prop 19 the both of us get a 5x5 grow area to produce our own medicine in or we have to go buy it from some city or state ran dispensary.

 

[kmk420kali]

Also people will be setting themselves up to get raided by the DEA. Right now in CA if someone had their medical card they can sell pot under a number of different business licences one of those being retail. Under this business licence you can pay your state and federal taxs on the money you made selling marijuana (or were being reimbursed for)

Once a number of marijuana only taxs start getting slapped onto the sale of marijuana you will have to claim this on your taxs which means when filing your federal taxs you will have to admit to the federal government that you sold marijuana for a profit. So if prop 19 says I can only buy my pot from licensed places and those licensed places have to tell the federal government that they sell pot what do you suppose will happen to the places we have to buy are pot from my guess is they will be shut down either for the illegal sales of marijuana or tax evasion. There are more consequences than what appears to be on the surface of this bill

But isn't one of your...I mean Dragonfly's other big reasons, that you think Big Biz will take over and ruin the Cannabis Market??
Which is it dude...will they take over the Canna Biz...or will Federal Tax Laws make it so we can't sell?? See what I mean, you are contradicting yourself--
Now, unless I get bored with it, I am going to go dissect your other Post--

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I see DEA getting challenged in the supreme court and getting their ass handed to them much like the case in which the CHP did... How long do you think Feds can violate the will of the people and get away with it? Obama will have to answer to the onslaught of questions about mj legalization if 19 passes and how can you destroy a states right after coming out in strong favor of them earlier? I think you anti's are too stuck in the short term or just misguiding and fearmongering because your making good money and don't really want to see mj legal ever... Because this needs to happend of we ever want DEA out of the picture. We need to fight prohibition and not just sit on our ass and be happy were making some money while risking freedom and family.

 

[vta]

There are plenty of gray areas!
entire article can be found here :http://www.420magazine.com/forums/i...persede-amend-its-medical-marijuana-laws.html

Section C, Intents, has two items.

Item 1 is a list of the laws Prop. 19 is "intended to limit the application and enforcement of". The inclusion of the phrase "including but not limited to the following, whether now existing or adopted in the future" opens the door for the argument to be made that Prop. 19 may (and most likely will) be interpreted to "limit" the "application and enforcement" of the now existing medical marijuana laws.

This interpretation is reinforced by Item 2 under this section, a list of state laws Prop. 19 "is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of".

Note that Item 2 is not open-ended. There is no "including but not limited to" modifier for this Item.

Conspicuously absent from either list are California's medical marijuana laws: Health & Safety Code Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7-11362.9.

These mentions and omissions occur in the 'preamble' of the initiative, titled Findings, Intent and Purposes. Concerns have been expressed regarding how legally binding these sections are and that nowhere in the sections to be added to California's legal code is there any mention of medical marijuana or any exemption for medical marijuana patients and providers.

Exploiting pain and suffering

Nowhere does the initiative exempt medical marijuana cultivators or distributors from the tax.

Proponents of Prop. 19 often argue that everything is taxed. This is not true. Illinois is the only state that taxes prescription pharmaceuticals, and that tax is 1%.

Proponents of Prop. 19 claim they want to tax and regulate marijuana like alcohol. It costs $450 to license a pharmacy in California and between $340-$580 to license a retail alcohol establishment. Long Beach claims 85 medical marijuana dispensaries and charges $14,742 for a license. Oakland has a limit of 4 dispensaries and charges them $30,000 for a license.

Im glad your insurance company pays for your weed but mine does not. I wasnt hurt at work either so workmans comp wont help me I was in my car stopped on a highway when a large suv hit me at 40mph from the rear and fractured my lower spine im 24 and get to live with back pain for the rest of my life because the alternative is surgery and limited mobility my fiance has migraines so bad that we often have to take her to the ER for a shot because nothing else will help her and under prop 19 the both of us get a 5x5 grow area to produce our own medicine in or we have to go buy it from some city or state ran dispensary.

Since your new I'll cut you a little slack and be real nice. For starters, that crap you posted by DragonFly has been proven wrong over and over again in threads here..different day same ol shit. Oh, also NORML has shredded her BS to oblivion as well.

Are you familiar with State Bill ABX6 9? If not I suggest you read it. Mainly because I think your FEAR abut Medical rights and 215 will be put to rest. You see ABX6 9 is the first look at what the State of California envisions the law to be like if 19 is to pass. It is a Bill designed to regulate Marijuana on a state level. All the so called 'gray areas' are covered. remember, this is the State doing this. In the Bill you will read a couple times how medical Marijuana is NOT covered in this law and it shall NOT be subject to ANYTHING related to the commercial regulations and taxes.

So there you have the State, ready with something already to go in-case 19 passes. BTW...they are upping...the Sate that is...the personal possession limit from one ounce to 16. yep...a pound on your person, walking or driving drown the street...will be A OK.

over 70,000 people last year received a LIFE LONG misdemeanor drug conviction on their perm record. Over 10,000 people WENT TO JAIL and received a FELONY for growing as little as one plant.

Prop 19 would end that. Don't be so foolish!

Try to give us a REAL reason we should say no and continue this total bullshit. One worthy reason.

Oh...and if it applies...it's ok to 'come out' and admit your afraid of losing money....if it applies that is.

 

[Herborizer]

I wish prop 19 would keep someone out of jail but it won't. No one goes to jail in CA for <28g, and if you have more then that you will still go even if 19 passes.

I had a change of heart too. At first I was supportive of prop 19 because I had only heard soundbites about how it 'legalized' marijuana. I am all for that, or at least what I thought 'legalized' meant. It was only when I read more into what the proposition actually said that I realized this was just a ploy to allow for government regulated commercial growing. No real rights are returned to the citizen smoker and no marijuana prisoners are going to be freed from CA's jails. I feel like as a group many of the pro-19ers do not have a realistic view of how things are going to play out here in CA 1-3-5 years down the road.

Help me understand how any plant, product, service, etc can be sold in this country without government regulation? Even tomatoes and strawberries are regulated. Even if you grow them at home, and you plan to sell.

As far as releasing prisoners, I want this so bad. It's the right thing todo. Though, the general public doesn't understand that yet. Why? Because they have been fed lies for years. Most people believe that if someone is in jail, it's for a good reason. They really do trust our system. Also, they don't have a reason to care (like what's in it for them). So they don't look into the issues etc.

If we make Cannabis legal for anyone over 21 in California, I believe this will change. Once you get a lot of people who have never even tried Cannabis to try it, and see that it's harmless, it will become easier to appeal to their reason. Then we can talk about freeing non-violent prisoners, etc.

I believe that right now, Prop 19 could pass because enough of the voting California public already knows people who use Cannabis, and they don't see any harm.

 

[jjblunt]

Myth #2: The initiative will keep young adults out of jail for using marijuana.
Fact: This initiative would put more young people in jail for pot. If it becomes law, any adult 21 or over who passes a joint to another adult aged 18-20 would face six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. [8] (NORML's Web site reports that the current penalty for a gift of marijuana of 1 oz. or less is a $100 fine.[9])

Dont furnish pot to minors then....pretty easy right?

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
Fact: Not quite. This allotment is per property, not per person. If you share a residence with other people, you’ll be sharing a 5’x5’ grow space, as well. Even if you own multiple acres that many people live on, if it is considered one parcel, the space restriction of 5’x5’ (3-6 plants) will still apply. [11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

This is true, but MOST Californians don't need more than 5x5 to have a steady flow of pot. I have a 2'x4' tent and a 1.5'x2' cab for my personal use. Thats only 11 sq ft and I wipe my ass with bud. I would think a 5x5 is plenty for most 2 person households. If not, then you probably smoke too much herb...

Myth #5: Adults 21 and over will be able to possess up to one ounce of marijuana without penalty.
Fact: Perhaps the most ironic piece of the puzzle is that the initiative to legalize marijuana actually makes it illegal to possess marijuana if it was purchased anywhere other than the very few licensed dispensaries in the state.[12] So if this initiative passes, better not get caught carrying marijuana you bought off your neighbor, your current dealer, or at a party; you could get arrested. And if you do buy from a licensed dispensary, better keep your receipts, because the burden of proof will be on you. Not only is this inconvenient, but it sets the industry up to be monopolized.

Total BS. The burden of proof is on the state, not you. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you violated the law. How can they prove you didn't buy that pot from a store? Or that you grew it yourself? They can't prove any of that. You are also assuming they will be "very few" places to get it. IMO everyone and their mother is going to be trying to open a store to sell it. There is also no law against gifting the weed to someone over 21.

I will be voting YES in November

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Good thread. Although I am wary about this bill, I still believe voting yes is the best choice for California and the nation over the long haul. the first few years are sure to be hectic if it passes, but those that grit their teeth and bare through it will come out on top. Just do every tiny thing according to the sate law and leave no room for the federal government to criticize your practices.

This is a boutique industry and it is to taboo for major corporations to take part in. The economy is also not good enough for them to take unnecessary risk. The highly addictive product they already have is not going away.

A large California test market will allow small grows to gain foot hold. As you all know there is also many growers that already have a foot hold. It wont be safe for Phillip Morris, or Wal-Mart to take part until a federal legalization bill is passed, and who knows how long that will take. Then It will take them at least another half a year after that to get things set up. Also their buying power does not mean anything in the grow world, because most grows wont sell their land, facilities or skills, to a company like phillip morris.

I hate the fact that the tax is so heavy, but cali is desperate right now, and this problem can be fixed later, in other states if not in cali. I say that because I am sure other states will follow if cali does this. I think Oregon, and colrado will be next.

 

[Herborizer]

prop 19 would not of done anything for me and my situation. dont get it confused homeboy, your now trying to say that prop 19 would of helped my medical defense? it gets weirder and weirder, the shit you guys come up with.......

but, got a nice judgment coming my way......

Yes, it could of helped. The smell of the elbows in your jeep wouldn't of been cause for search. Also, having weed in your jeep, probably wouldn't of been cause for searching your residence.

Also, you have to figure on another angle. If the California voters send a message to our officers saying that Cannabis is legal, the officers can stop trying to decide the legal/illegal aspect of the Medical Marijuana position.

Hey, that's just the way I see it. I could be wrong.

 

[Herborizer]

Those people ignore the fact that with the minimal freedoms that this bill does give to the people it also takes plenty away and what makes you think that someone for the other team isnt hoping we pass this bill so that they can amend it for what suits their interests.

Help me out here. I keep reading Prop 19 over and over and I can't find the part where it takes away any rights at all. If you could point out that section or sections it would be great. Thank you

 

[TruthOrLie]

You're totally out of line KrunchBubble.

Before California medical marijuana laws, if you got caught with weed, you're busted.

After the medical marijuana laws, there became this 'gray' area.

Now you can be stopped, and if you are in the 'gray' area the officer has an option to let you go... citation or no citation.

With the passage of Prop 19, this 'gray' area becomes HUGE.

How much more room does that give a cop to make a decision to persue or not to?

Maybe the cop is friendly to MMJ and recreational mary jane, but just needs more 'gray' area to feel safe he won't lose his own skin by not busting you.

I say Prop 19 will be good for ALL users of marijuana in ALL places around the whole WORLD.

It changes that 'gray' area from medicine only to accepting people have a legitimate reason and right to use marijuana for recreation.

 

[kmk420kali]

Except it dosnt!

http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/

A few examples for those who choose not to read the link

Myth #2: The initiative will keep young adults out of jail for using marijuana.
Fact: This initiative would put more young people in jail for pot. If it becomes law, any adult 21 or over who passes a joint to another adult aged 18-20 would face six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. [8] (NORML's Web site reports that the current penalty for a gift of marijuana of 1 oz. or less is a $100 fine.[9])

Reality: Under 19, we can share or gift that ounce with anybody...Legally, no fine, no drug related Misdemeanor on your Record--
The under 21 thing is unfortunate, but acceptable, as it is the same with alcohol--

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
Fact: Not quite. This allotment is per property, not per person. If you share a residence with other people, you’ll be sharing a 5’x5’ grow space, as well. Even if you own multiple acres that many people live on, if it is considered one parcel, the space restriction of 5’x5’ (3-6 plants) will still apply. [11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

Reality: If you rent somebody else's property, they SHOULD have a say in what goes on there-- I am sure most won't care if you have a couple plants in the yard...but they might, if you are going to risk fire hazard and water/mold damage to their property--
As far as the Per Parcel thing...that kinda sucks, but not a reason to vote no-- I'm sure this will get dealt with through Legislation-- Besides, if you have multi residences, as in houses on 1 parcel, that will most likely be found in compliance--

Myth #5: Adults 21 and over will be able to possess up to one ounce of marijuana without penalty.
Fact: Perhaps the most ironic piece of the puzzle is that the initiative to legalize marijuana actually makes it illegal to possess marijuana if it was purchased anywhere other than the very few licensed dispensaries in the state.[12] So if this initiative passes, better not get caught carrying marijuana you bought off your neighbor, your current dealer, or at a party; you could get arrested. And if you do buy from a licensed dispensary, better keep your receipts, because the burden of proof will be on you. Not only is this inconvenient, but it sets the industry up to be monopolized.

Reality: Absolutely wrong-- With 215, the Burden of Proof is on us...but with 19, it will be on the police, since it will be a legalization across the board...not just for Patients--
If you are stupid enough to say you bought your weed, then I don't know what to say-- Anybody can grow it, and anybody can give or receive a gift of up to 1 ounce--
Besides, it is already that way with 215...it says you must grow your own, or buy it from a Dispensary...they do not ask us for proof of where we got it now--
Seriously, seems like just making up shit to support your unsupportable stance--

What’s more, if your city decides not to tax cannabis, then buying and selling marijuana in the city limits would remain illegal. You would be permitted to possess and consume marijuana, but you would be required to travel to another city that taxes cannabis to buy it.[13] This is a move towards decreased, not increased, access. And since the initiative is so ambiguous that cities are destined to be tied up in a legal quagmire over how to interpret it, many local governments might find it simpler just to opt-out and send its citizens elsewhere. Indeed, 129 cities did just that with medical marijuana, banning it outright, while still others have established moratoriums against dispensaries. In fact, of the entire state, only the city of Oakland has endorsed the initiative. A vote for the initiative will therefore not ensure local access to purchase marijuana legally.

Then grow your own...or have a friend do it for you--
How would it be decreased access...since it is fucking illegal now??

 

[Herborizer]

I think until we have something nationwide we are just wasting out time.

This isn't how our Government works. Our federal government doesn't set the laws that legalize tomatoes or strawberries. This is a state issue.

The US government is already planning on suing the state of California if this passes, meaning it won't go into effect anyways.

This would be bad news. Though, I can't find any record or news article that shows any proof of this. Can you provide any proof to that statement? Or is this an assumption?