Lookie Here

[Tony Aroma]

That's a nice attempt to put the blame on my side for other states short-comings and make me feel guilty for it.

If other states citizens desire a particular law, they should lobby and push authorities to put those laws into practice.

I understand that if California does pass Prop 19, other states may follow, but that does not put the responsibility of paving a the way on California.

Politician from another state, "I was starting to think this legalization thing might not be such a bad idea, but if it can't even pass in California, no way it will fly here."

There's no blame being placed. It's a simple fact that CA leads the way in cannabis law reform. You set an example for the rest of us, and show us what's possible. Much like a famous athlete who becomes a role model, whether they like it or not.

Commercialization will bring down quality, introduce just as many pesticides and take the profits out of mom and pop and place them into larger companies. Its like walmart vs the corner store... get it?

That's one possible scenario. But I think a better comparison would be with beer. Sure, Budweiser has a major market share, but there's plenty of room in the market for a smaller company like Sam Adam's, not to mention the (mom and pop) microbreweries. It's a market that big enough, and diverse enough, to support a product for all tastes and budgets. Why think the cannabis market would be any different?

 

[kmk420kali]

Honestly, from your thread, you don't look mom and pop, you look like someone that is already big and wants to be bigger... so I could see that you would want this bill to pass.

Mom and pop = 6k in some persons bedroom that pays for his/her rent and some spending money by selling it to dispensaries. Not someone with 3000 sq greenhouse

It is 6000 sq ft-- BTW...it is pretty big, but seriously, 400 plants isn't exactly "Mega Grow"--
I am just an employee there-- But anybody with the resources to run a 6k, could do a set-up like that--
But instead of them getting ripped off by Dispensaries...under 19, they can get a business license and sell it legit--

 

[Apicalmeristem]

kmk420 it seems to me with a business already in place that you are an employee of, you and your business have alot to gain if this bill passes. Are you just a money grubbing weed dealer who wants to use legalization as a way to push out your competitors, Do you truly believe that this bill is in the best interest of the people. I ask because people usually do thinks that will benefit themselves not others and I thnk you have fooled yourself under the guise of legalization that you helping people while actually you are hurting people for your own ends.

 

[kmk420kali]

kmk420 it seems to me with a business already in place that you are an employee of, you and your business have alot to gain if this bill passes. Are you just a money grubbing weed dealer who wants to use legalization as a way to push out your competitors, Do you truly believe that this bill is in the best interest of the people. I ask because people usually do thinks that will benefit themselves not others and I thnk you have fooled yourself under the guise of legalization that you helping people while actually you are hurting people for your own ends.

How would Prop 19 push out the competition??
Under 19, our Grow would be considered small-- I don't see your connection--
Way to call me a "money grubbing weed dealer"...for your info, I get a daily wage, and a small percent of product in the end-- I don't get 1 dime of what is dispensed through the Collective--
So, you think everyone who works at Walmart is personally responsible for pushing out Mom & Pop stores?? Do you think every person in the Military is responsible for the Wars overseas??
I think Prop 19 is the best thing we got going right now, and that if it fails, the message that will send, and the spin the Anti's will put on it, will set our Movement back years--
I find it laughable that you came at me like this...just goes to show that you must be a very small time dealer...that is worried about a little competition your own self-- But I ain't the one--

 

[Fat J]

There are already mega-grows. If you are for legalization, you can't argue against mega-grows. If it is legalized, no matter what bill, there will be mega-grows. I hate wal-mart, but I love america, as fuct up as it is. I do think its a damn shame that they chose to put the 25sqft restriction in there... the mega growers dont really need that protection, their resources alone guarantee that they will have the quantity market cornered. But if you're gonna wait for a bill that blocks mega growers, youll never see legalization. It sadly takes a lot of money to pass a law here, and a bill like this NEEDS big commercial support to pass - proof is in the California Cannabis Initiative. Was a great alternative to Tax N Regulate, but had no money behind it - didnt make it to ballot.

Its been over 30 years since we had a chance - and if it passes, we can push for an initiative to modify the parts that we dislike.

Before prop 215 passed here, how many states had MMJ? Big fat 0. Whether you like it or not, we lead the way on MJ reform.

Last point... if you grow great weed that nobody can compare to, your weed will likely get more valuable in the legal market, would prolly be a huge crop of coffeeshops/etc springin up and the weed tourism would gobble up all the commercial weed, small, high-end boutiques would likely be able to sell connisseur weed at a higher price than now - even though 20$ eighths could be common.

I may lose a buncha income if 19 passes, but if it does, fuck it, ill start setting up 5x5 growrooms for people for 1000 a pop and start a growers in-home assistance service. The market would change, and we would have to adapt.

19 would create financial uncertainty for me and a lot of others, but its the only really valid argument and its based on greed.

 

[Mr Celsius]

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[Fat J]

I live here, I am a small grower, despite of all ur arguments and fears of the possible market shift, I'm voting yes. I fear we may not get this chance again in my lifetime.

I am going to check yes. Even if it may make growing weed less profittable for me, I can't let my greed make that decision. The right thing, if you really want to see legalization - is to vote yes, I'm sorry but weighing all the pros and cons, theres only one answer if you're pro-legalizaton.

 

[Mr Celsius]

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[Herborizer]

Watch this. Then vote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enb3FHYf4fk

 

[kmk420kali]

Watch this. Then vote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enb3FHYf4fk

I saw that the other day...it had me so mad, I was physically shaking!! And all for a gram and a half of weed!!

 

[Herborizer]

So I ask again, why?

More protection

(Quote from NORML):

"Most marijuana smokers, believe it or not, are healthy and aren’t comfortable spending money for a doctor to give them permission to use cannabis. Currently we face a ticket, fine, and misdemeanor drug conviction record for possession an ounce or less of cannabis. That record prevents us from getting student aid and can cost us our jobs, child custody, and housing, or if we’re on probation, our freedom. (Even if California succeeds at downgrading possession to an infraction from a misdemeanor, a $100 ticket is a lot of money to some people!) We face a felony charge if we grow even one plant at home. For us, Prop 19 is much better than “what we have now.

Even under Prop 215, the adult cannabis consumer is guilty of being a criminal unless proven innocent as a patient. When Prop 19 passes, the adult cannabis consumer is considered innocent until proven guilty. It is a complete game changer for law enforcement, because:

1. the smell of marijuana on your person is no longer probable cause to search you;
2. that joint in your pocket means nothing;
3. the seizure of stems, leaves, and seeds from your trash is irrelevant;
4. a couple of baggies with weed residue in them are just garbage
5. the sight of that bong on your table visible through the kitchen window isn’t a “welcome” mat for a police search;
6. your utility bills raising a bit for water and lights don’t matter;
7. your neighbors smelling skunky plants is just a nuisance, not the source for an “anonymous tip”;
8. receipts for lights, soil, fertilizer, ballasts, trimmers, and stuff are meaningless;
9. infrared signatures of your home aren’t evidence of anything;
10. marijuana sniffing K-9 units are out of a job; and
11. pre-employment drug testing programs become harder for businesses to maintain for cannabis.

Basically, one of the simplest tools law enforcement has for harassing cannabis consumers – the sight and smell of cannabis and paraphernalia – is no longer in the tool belt. As long as you’re an adult, keep your grow in a 5′x5′ area, don’t smoke in front of kids, and don’t leave the house with over an ounce, you are free from police harassment."

 

[Herborizer]

So I ask again, why?

Taxes and the Concern of Corporations Taking over the Small Guy

(Quote from NORML):

"Another thing that appears in some of these blogs is outright misinformation, such as talk of a $50/ounce state tax (it’s not in the initiative; that was Ammiano’s bill) or that it would supersede Prop 215 (it wouldn’t, and Prop 19 even references Prop 215 in its language, so it couldn’t). Others play up the “millionaires”, “big corporations”, and “monopolies” that would be created and the earnest Emerald Triangle family growers who’d be put out of business (which amuses me: Prop 19 allows localities to regulate sales, so why wouldn’t Humboldt, Trinity, and Mendocino county residents whose economy depends on pot sales lobby really hard to get legalized pot sales OK’d in those counties and cities within, and regulated in a way that protects the small grower?)"

 

[Herborizer]

So I ask again, why?

Prohibition

It doesn’t work, wastes money, and creates crime. This Act will be a first step in ending that.

 

[Herborizer]

So I ask again, why?

Social Cannabis Bars/Clubs/etc

"A city can license bars and coffee shops to allow on-site toking, as well as the retail marijuana stores."

 

[Herborizer]

So I ask again, why?

Jobs

(Quote from Prop 19):

"(c) No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act. Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected."

With Prop 19 passed, A dirty pee test doesn't disqualify you in the interview process. You won't be fired for having Cannabis in your pee test. Of course, if you come into work baked and you get caught, they can fire you. This is the same for alcohol.

 

[Herborizer]

I can't possibly fathom what will happen to the production and earnings from pot, so I can't comment. I do believe that larger and fewer organizations will be producing.

Honestly, from your thread, you don't look mom and pop, you look like someone that is already big and wants to be bigger... so I could see that you would want this bill to pass.

Mom and pop = 6k in some persons bedroom that pays for his/her rent and some spending money by selling it to dispensaries. Not someone with 3000 sq greenhouse

Lets say I had 6k in my bedroom, but growing Roses. Should I be able to make enough money to pay my rent and have some spending money, growing Roses in this same space?

How about lettuce? Carrots? Strawberries?

 

[subrob]

i only read a few posts...im much better behaved when i just skip to the end...food for thought:
--california passed medical pot-13 states follow suit(so far)
--california passes recreational pot-fill in the blank
...for those who have not seen my polite, even headed posts on the subject before, ask yourself:
--do i have a moral obligation to win a battle NOW, and continue the wave that followed mmj?
-------------if a person were to go thru the threads on this subject and subtract all the asshole posts that myself and others on both sides of the subject have made, and look at only logical posts...all the answers to all the questions are there, right in your face...
--head off a few questions for all y'all that havent decided yet:
--there will never be a bill introduced that will release all prior convictions from thier current sentences...ever...ever...ever...get over it, it sucks, but its fact. im sure if i were hangin in the yard right now, i would much rather go to my next parole hearing armed w the knowledge the law i was sentenced for is off the books then wait around for a bill to come along that would retro actively release me...i wish to god we could take a poll of prisoners currently serving in california to see how they feel about this point...i would be willing to bet huge they would agree w me...so lets drop that argument right here, right now...its flat out embarrassing(no offense personally if someone posted that earlier...i didnt read it so it wasnt directed at you...well..kinda)
--its gonna be taxed...period...dont even wanna talk about that...
---dont look at this as the final fight...it is just the beginning...they declared WAR on us....and that is EXACTLY the way far too many people in this country view it...we have to do the same...and no army would throw away a victory, right as they were poised to win...just cuz the land they were fighting on wasnt good enough...vote yes, it is the moral, responsible, respectful, right thing to do. not one single anti has defeated the moral argument of voting yes for this bill...i have begged people to try, and no one wants too...why is that? cuz its right.

 

[Herborizer]

. Commercialization will bring down quality, introduce just as many pesticides and take the profits out of mom and pop and place them into larger companies. Its like walmart vs the corner store... get it?

Commercialization can bring down quality, but commercialization is not synonymous with bringing down quality. A few examples:

Starbucks. Not the best coffee by any means. Though, what Starbucks brought was a decent cup of coffee available almost anywhere. Same cup of coffee no matter what location you buy it. I personally remember trying to find a decent cup of coffee back before Starbucks (when traveling). It was not easy.

6 Flags, Disneyland. I would take these super roller-coaster parks over any small time traveling amusement park.

Verizon/ATT Mobile. Do you remember what it was like to use a cell phone back in the 80's and 90's when there were 100's if not 1000's of cellular network companies? Remember having to enable roaming??? Think cell phones suck now, haha.

Internet. I started on the Internet in 1990. This is way before web. Back then, a simple dial-up account was over $100 per month. We are talking 9600 baud (kbps) or maybe, if lucky, 14400 baud. A simple email account could cost you a fortune. Without commercialization of Internet, we would all be in the dark still. No ICMAG at all. Imagine browsing ICMAG on a BBS? Haha.

Well, that list should do it. I can list more if you would like.

 

[Herborizer]

--there will never be a bill introduced that will release all prior convictions from thier current sentences...ever...ever...ever...get over it, it sucks, but its fact. im sure if i were hangin in the yard right now, i would much rather go to my next parole hearing armed w the knowledge the law i was sentenced for is off the books then wait around for a bill to come along that would retro actively release me...

Don't give up on this. I think it's going to be a battle, but I believe it is possible. Don't forget, there are people in jail for long long sentences.

Is it possible to have Cannabis federally legal in the next 15 years? I think yes. If we destroy the stigma of Cannabis, and the public accepts that prohibition is like a legalized slavery (not even close to the same, but I am trying to make a point), then maybe all non-violent prisoners can be released early. That's my hope at least.

 

[subrob]

good point...and i apologize..i was kinda...paraphrasing my thoughts...i go too long on the subject i get kinda angry...haha...i agree completely, my point was voting no on this bill specifically because it does not include this clause is insane...it was an argument ive had w a few members in other threads..and i tend to....oversell a point...at times
---and i believe, without question, we are heading for federal legalization...and i have never thought i would see it, honestly, at times....the last two years have brought more change in attitude then ive seen combined in two decades....i believe a critical mass has been reached ...the V.A. decision on mmj in the m-states blew my mind...impossible to think policy makers at the highest levels are not aware of the possible...repurcussions..of thier decision...this administration is not going to last another term...we need AS MUCH CHANGE as we can get, while we can get it, at every level...cuz gaining ground is gonna slow down a bit next time around...and we will have to fight to hold onto whatever we get between now and then...IMO- -every battle in every town,borough,parrish,county and state is the same fight...vote yes on 19...