LEO Trespassing Question

[Yeoman]

Does anyone know what the guidelines are for Sheriffs Dept Deputies coming on to your land unannounced / uninvited for a check of recommendations vs plant numbers in a collective garden?

Lets just say that the property is in Shasta County California, in a unincorporated township. The property is posted with no trespassing signs. There is a gate at the driveway entrance that is posted that the driveway is not a public thoroughfare. The driveway is about 1/4 mile long. There is only one driveway into the property.

I only ask because I have heard nightmares about Shatsa County, where as my other gardens are in different counties. This is my first year in Shasta and want to ensure I can do everything I can to keep my garden tender from having to deal with anyone who is unannounced.

I am extremely state legal, so I am not concerned about getting in trouble by the Sheriffs Dept, I am just curious to know if there is any legal way to perhaps keep them off my property too (unless invited).. Or to find out what their protocols are in regards to unannounced visits into the middle of someones property. ie what rights do property owners have in these instances?

Thanks in advance and Regards,

 

[Yeoman]

*** Also making the assumption that there is no specific warrant for said property.

 

[supermanlives]

tall fences and a pack of dogs. when you hear the gunfire run. in my experience cops lie and always find a way to explain what they have done. like they say they were chasing someone and he ran into your property.they know most people cant afford a fancy lawyer

 

[Phedrosbenny]

I would lock the gate.That way if something does happen they would either of had to cut the lock or jump the gate.Might help.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the better you secure your property the more right to privacy you have. if you can have a high chain link fence with barb wire at the top and dogs roaming the property, then the cops can not just come on to your land. but if you have no fence no dog no guards, they assume that where they are walking is what they call publicly accesible. i got this from that gps ruling recently. if your house is protected like a drug loard they are not allowed to sneak in and attach a gps, but if you just live in a normal house and your car is in the drive, they can just walk in and plant the gps. so spend some money on walls and fences, movement sensors and cameras. clear no trespassing signs warning of dogs and potential hunters, every 10 foot all along your fence. this way they will not just drop in for a chat, not unless you invite them. but if the gate is not locked, they will again claim it was publicly accessible. get a buzzer set up and intercom at the gate.

 

[Panama Red]

Cameras.

Porky is extremely camera shy and hates to be caught on camera in their natural habitat, which is "bending the rules/truth/law".

Even fake cameras with a dummy blinking led can keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

[phrike]

Yeah, the better you can secure your property, especially so that nobody uninvited can get it, the more protection you'd have in court.

Yes, cops can usually find a dirty lie/excuse, but that's MUCH harder if you have tall barb-wired fence totally encompassing the property and a good high, secure locked gate on a driveway. IE, if the cop has to climb something tall and hard to get in, it's like the cop was effectively acting like a burglar and he'd have little legal excuse. (Although being in hot pursuit of a suspect could still work.)

The problem with the above, besides cost and ugly-ness, is that such a property attracts attention by it's security.

A middle ground would be "Absolutely no trespassing" signs everywhere (visible from ANY approach angle) and a smallish locked gate over the driveway, as well as some sort of fencing.


And for the suggestion above of cameras, use "You are under surveillance" signs so LEO and others are warned away. Don't assume cameras will be seen.

 

[Phedrosbenny]

Unseen cameras are good too.That way they dont know and can get caught.Lets make those bitches pay when we can.Or better yet...........put their fucking ass in a cage.

 

[Bob Jones]

It's a complicated question, or answer anyway. There's a legal term called "curtilage". What that means is that legally there's an area around your house where you have the maximum expectation of privacy. That might be defined by a fenced and gated yard, or it might be defined by the limits of the outbuildings around your home. It's not specific and will depend on the specifics of each property, but it's the area immediately around your home and yard. Within that area the police cannot search without a warrant (legally).

If you have a large rural property the police can (legally) enter onto the undeveloped portion of the property, such as farm fields or woods, particularly if they fabricate some excuse. The courts say that you have a lower expectation of privacy in those areas.

Like the poster said above, I would recommend "24 hour video surveillance" signs as they hate to be recorded, it makes it harder for them to lie. Also, no trespassing signs definitely help.

I'm not sure how it is in Cali but here in Oregon our med law specifically states that the police have no probable cause to enter your property simply because you have a med card. To get a warrant they have to have probable cause that you are committing a crime, not just growing legal med mj.

 

[Yeoman]

I very much appreciate all of your responses...

When it comes down to it LEO can justify pretty much everything they do, whether it is reality or not. That is if it isn't filmed.

Luckily for me there is literally a moat that surrounds the entire plot. The gated driveway is the only solid access unless they want to jump at least 4' down into the "pit" and try to climb back out..

Thanks again for your time.

Regards,

 

[opt1c]

ring around the property with a lock on it.... whatever sort of gate you want should be legally sufficient to make sure that anyone past it is trespassing... i'd put a lil string of barb wire around the outside of the moat and then a nice gate in front of it over the driveway; put another on the end of the driveway and u just made yourself a checkpoint

 

[phrike]

It's a complicated question, or answer anyway. There's a legal term called "curtilage". What that means is that legally there's an area around your house where you have the maximum expectation of privacy. That might be defined by a fenced and gated yard, or it might be defined by the limits of the outbuildings around your home. It's not specific and will depend on the specifics of each property, but it's the area immediately around your home and yard. Within that area the police cannot search without a warrant (legally).

True, but one must always keep in mind that while they can't physically walk on and search your curtilage, they CAN use their eyes to "search" from public property or a neighboring property. (I've no idea if they must have the neighbor's permission, but as always excuses can be fabricated.)

If they see something illegal from the neighboring property they'd be able to get a search warrant. I'd guess in some circumstances they might not even need the search warrant at that point (felony in progress?)

 

[phrike]

ring around the property with a lock on it.... whatever sort of gate you want should be legally sufficient to make sure that anyone past it is trespassing... i'd put a lil string of barb wire around the outside of the moat and then a nice gate in front of it over the driveway; put another on the end of the driveway and u just made yourself a checkpoint

I'd guess the barbed wire should be visible (and perhaps even have warning signs posted in some locations?) If not visible it might qualify as a "booby-trap" which will get you in hot water in some areas.

Moat sounds uber cool. Man's home IS his castle. I'd guess filling the moat with alligators might not be acceptable though, LOL.

 

[opt1c]

yeah i was thinking cattle fence not razor wire

i dunno bout no trespassing signs; usually a fence without openings in quasi residential areas is all you need.... they can't hurt but at the same time they send a very visible message; i'd probably get some no trespassing no hunting ones so it doesn't look like i'm just trying to keep people away... also look at your neighbors fences; copy what they do to blend in

 

[Yeoman]

Yeah.. The closest paved road to this property is 9 miles away. The chance that 1 out of the 15 full time Shasta County deputies would coincidentally be 9 miles up a dirt road and happen to see something from the road would be astronomical..

But stranger things have happened..

 

[Yeoman]

The alligator idea made me laugh.. It's a funny visual !!!

 

[!!!]

As far as I know, lack of any trespassing signs means anyone can come on your property, but not inside your home.

This means if kids are playing and their ball goes into your backyard, they can retrieve it. Cops can come take a stroll through your property as well. Only your HOME and the INSIDE of it are protected UNLESS you explicitly state NO TRESPASSING.

For more details look at USA vs Juan Pineda-Moreno

The decision was not unanimous. In a strongly worded dissent, Chief Judge Alex Kozinski said that because of the ruling, "1984 may have come a bit later than predicted, but it's here at last."

In the 10-page ruling, two of the Ninth Circuit judges held that the DEA agents did not violate Pineda-Moreno's constitutional rights. The judges ruled that because Pineda-Moreno's had not taken specific steps to exclude passersby from his driveway -- by installing a gate por posting no trespassing signs, for instance -- he could not claim reasonable privacy expectations.

The Ninth Circuit panel ruled that the actions by the agents were comparable to the delivery of newspapers to the house, or the retrieval of a ball accidently thrown under the vehicle by a neighbor.

 

[Yeoman]

Thanks "!!!" !! Great information.. Appreciate it.

Regards,

 

[David762]

LEO doesn't play by the same rules that they expect the rest of society to follow. The largest, best organized violent street gangs in the USA are LEOs -- that's the truth.

That being said, there is no way to absolutely insure that LEO's stay off your property. But there have been a number of imho excellent suggestions regarding limiting access to your property -- tall fences all the way around, an automated self-locking gate at the access to your property, camera & 2-way intercom & keypad at the gate, and other security cameras on your property will discourage most LEO incursions. They don't like their illegal actions monitored. Video/audio should be recorded on-site, as well as spooled off-site (high speed internet or WiFi/microwave link to a trusted neighbor).

It already sounds like some good measures have been taken, but I would not rely upon a moat or ditch surrounding your property as an insurmountable legal obstacle to either LEO's curiosity or evil intentions.

(BTW: You don't by any chance need a security guard / gardener / cook, do you?)

 

[ninfan77]

Make sure the gate is locked too.

I've seen/had state police reach over a fence (about neck high) and unlatch an unlocked gate, walk the 40 feet up to the house, and knock on the door.

Mind you at this time, the fence was newly constructed and there was no signage up yet.